Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

[GTripp0012]

By the way, the "accepted" yardage conversion for an interception, if you assume 100% credit to the interceptor, is 45 yards. You could argue that either way, but that's the number that people who work with stats seem to be comfortable with. No, it's not set in stone.

5 x 45 = 225 yards created by DeAngelo Hall through his interceptions in 2010. If you want to add in his two TDs at 20 yards per event, we're up to 265 yards of value "created" by DeAngelo Hall in 2010. Eyeballing that, this is somewhere between half a win and a win added to the 2010 Redskins thanks to positive plays by DeAngelo Hall.

This all assumes that Jay Cutler and Johnnie Knox/Devin Hester were at zero percent fault for those four INTs in Chicago.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

By the way, the "accepted" yardage conversion for an interception, if you assume 100% credit to the interceptor, is 45 yards. You could argue that either way, but that's the number that people who work with stats seem to be comfortable with. No, it's not set in stone.

5 x 45 = 225 yards created by DeAngelo Hall through his interceptions in 2010. If you want to add in his two TDs at 20 yards per event, we're up to 265 yards of value "created" by DeAngelo Hall in 2010. Eyeballing that, this is somewhere between half a win and a win added to the 2010 Redskins thanks to positive plays by DeAngelo Hall.

This all assumes that Jay Cutler and Johnnie Knox/Devin Hester were at zero percent fault for those four INTs in Chicago.

How many times are WR's or QB's not at fault during a INT? See? You're arguement is totally biased on the fact that all your negative approach toward D. Hall is based on your OWN belief that he's not a good CB for the Redskins.

In that total yardage allowed by Hall.. How many times did Moore, or Doughty/Horton blow coverage and not help over the top? How many times did the QB have more then 3 seconds to throw, or were we in Zone coverage? Blitz?

It's all biased statistical information and not even halfway accurate to what D. Hall actually does on the field. He produces plays..

2 defensive TD's, Pro Bowl, Pro Bowl MVP, 16 pass deflection, 6 INT's, and 95 tackles. All on the 31st ranked defense in the NFL

Sorry but there is not much more to argue about that.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Bucket

How many times are WR's or QB's not at fault during a INT? See? You're arguement is totally biased on the fact that all your negative approach toward D. Hall is based on your OWN belief that he's not a good CB for the Redskins.

In that total yardage allowed by Hall.. How many times did Moore, or Doughty/Horton blow coverage and not help over the top? How many times did the QB have more then 3 seconds to throw, or were we in Zone coverage? Blitz?

It's all biased statistical information and not even halfway accurate to what D. Hall actually does on the field. He produces plays..

2 defensive TD's, Pro Bowl, Pro Bowl MVP, 16 pass deflection, 6 INT's, and 95 tackles. All on the 31st ranked defense in the NFL

Sorry but there is not much more to argue about that.

LOL at pro bowl MVP. Quit with the biased crap. Stick to facts.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

LOL at pro bowl MVP. Quit with the biased crap. Stick to facts.

But see you laugh at the facts and stats Bucket produced, while at the same time holding up your own "facts" and stats to prove otherwise.

Is the real argument you're right and we're wrong?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

But see you laugh at the facts and stats Bucket produced, while at the same time holding up your own "facts" and stats to prove otherwise.

Is the real argument you're right and we're wrong?

What in the heck did bucket produce?? How is that any way comparable to what I did. It's disrespectful to me that you'd consider that similar. He's talking about individual honors bestowed upon a player while I'm talking about on-field performance. Things that happen during games.

Which matters more? This is not a trick question.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What in the heck did bucket produce?? How is that any way comparable to what I did. It's disrespectful to me that you'd consider that similar. He's talking about individual honors bestowed upon a player while I'm talking about on-field performance. Things that happen during games.

Which matters more? This is not a trick question.

If you feel disrespected, then with all due respect, you're probably taking this a little too personally and have placed yourself higher than you ought to. And if you feel that the stats that you've produced are somehow superior than Bucket's, or for that matter the same stats I've mentioned in another thread, then, again, I really don't know what to say about that.

But let's agree on this -- we all want the Redskins defense to be as dominant as they can as a unit, not prizing individual performances that rarely yield championships or playoff appearances. In short, I have no interest in seeing D.Hall kill it this year for the sole purpose of coming here to thump my chest and say I told you so.

Edit: Tripp, for what it's worth you're obviously a sharp dude and I got mad respect for your game, we just don't see eye to eye on this one.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

I would put Hall squarely behind the following without any hesitation, and believe there would be little argument from anyone on these:

D. Green
Champ Bailey
Pat Fischer
Paul Krause
Joe Lavender
Mike Bass
Sammy Baugh (if he's considered a CB and not a S)

I would rather have these guys as my # 1 corner instead of Hall (each considered in his prime, without injury), but as I have said before, my preference is for "more substance, less style" type of CBs. That being said, it is debateable who is "better" in terms of overall contribution to the Skins.

S. Springs
C. Rogers
Tom Carter

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

If you feel disrespected, then with all due respect, you're probably taking this a little too personally and have placed yourself higher than you ought to. And if you feel that the stats that you've produced are somehow superior than Bucket's, or for that matter the same stats I've mentioned in another thread, then, again, I really don't know what to say about that.

But let's agree on this -- we all want the Redskins defense to be as dominant as they can as a unit, not prizing individual performances that rarely yield championships or playoff appearances. In short, I have no interest in seeing D.Hall kill it this year for the sole purpose of coming here to thump my chest and say I told you so.

I should clarify that I don't feel personally disrespected. Really, that should be universal by now, more than 13,000 posts in. I don't feel personally disrespected about anything.

It's disrespectful to my argument to say that my evidence and someone elses evidence are basically equal. That's an easily preconcieved perspective (wow! Both these sides bring great points all the time!) that didn't reflect the reality of the situation. Really, it gives the opportunity to belittle my objectivity in the numbers as an exercise in hating. There is no better word to fit that than disrespectful. If you were respecting my ability to defend my position, I think you would have seen that most of my best points weren't even drawing responses. I mean, what can you say about the 31st defense having the corner with the highest number of passing yards against outside of, "oh, well, that makes sense."

This isn't a matter of right and wrong, it's fact vs. opinion. When the best defense of an argument that is brought up is "it's ten other guys' fault," well...okay then.

1) 5 to 10 other guys on defense are the reason that Hall gives up a lot of yards
2) if you disagree with this, you are biased

This is Bucket's argument in logical form. Is this really something you wish to defend? People like him should not ever, ever use the term bias.

[Lotus]

DHall is the new Jason Campbell. JC was so middle-of-the-road that lovers found plenty to love, haters found plenty to hate, and therefore endless arguments resulted. For different reasons, of course, DHall polarizes the fan base in just the same way.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Lotus

DHall is the new Jason Campbell. JC was so middle-of-the-road that lovers found plenty to love, haters found plenty to hate, and therefore endless arguments resulted. For different reasons, of course, DHall polarizes the fan base in just the same way.

In some sense I even take exception to that comparison for many reasons. But namely I can't remember one game where Jason Campbell put the team on his back and single-handedly drove the team to victory or he was the deciding factor in a victorious outcome. I think it's safe to say, D.Hall has produced a few of those games in his short time as a Redskin.

But I'm done with this thread and this argument. I'm starting to sound like D.Hall is the second coming of Christ and that's not the position I'm taking at all.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

But I'm done with this thread and this argument. I'm starting to sound like D.Hall is the second coming of Christ and that's not the position I'm taking at all.

12th, I have great respect for you for doing this. Even though we disagree, you've proven to be the "bigger" man.

I'll be back in this thread before long, ttyl.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

In some sense I even take exception to that comparison for many reasons. But namely I can't remember one game where Jason Campbell put the team on his back and single-handedly drove the team to victory or he was the deciding factor in a victorious outcome. I think it's safe to say, D.Hall has produced a few of those games in his short time as a Redskin.

But I'm done with this thread and this argument. I'm starting to sound like D.Hall is the second coming of Christ and that's not the position I'm taking at all.

I think Lotus was talking about just being a polarizing player. The loudest people in this argument are the ones that think that Hall is the best CB of all time AND those who think Hall is destroying the Redskins worst than Vinny. But yeah, this thread and this argument is getting a bit tiring. I'm ready for the season to start and root for all the players in the Redskins roster.