Where does D. Hall rate as a CB for the Redskins all time?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

LOL at pro bowl MVP. Quit with the biased crap. Stick to facts.

But see you laugh at the facts and stats Bucket produced, while at the same time holding up your own "facts" and stats to prove otherwise.

Is the real argument you're right and we're wrong?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

But see you laugh at the facts and stats Bucket produced, while at the same time holding up your own "facts" and stats to prove otherwise.

Is the real argument you're right and we're wrong?

What in the heck did bucket produce?? How is that any way comparable to what I did. It's disrespectful to me that you'd consider that similar. He's talking about individual honors bestowed upon a player while I'm talking about on-field performance. Things that happen during games.

Which matters more? This is not a trick question.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What in the heck did bucket produce?? How is that any way comparable to what I did. It's disrespectful to me that you'd consider that similar. He's talking about individual honors bestowed upon a player while I'm talking about on-field performance. Things that happen during games.

Which matters more? This is not a trick question.

If you feel disrespected, then with all due respect, you're probably taking this a little too personally and have placed yourself higher than you ought to. And if you feel that the stats that you've produced are somehow superior than Bucket's, or for that matter the same stats I've mentioned in another thread, then, again, I really don't know what to say about that.

But let's agree on this -- we all want the Redskins defense to be as dominant as they can as a unit, not prizing individual performances that rarely yield championships or playoff appearances. In short, I have no interest in seeing D.Hall kill it this year for the sole purpose of coming here to thump my chest and say I told you so.

Edit: Tripp, for what it's worth you're obviously a sharp dude and I got mad respect for your game, we just don't see eye to eye on this one.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

I would put Hall squarely behind the following without any hesitation, and believe there would be little argument from anyone on these:

D. Green
Champ Bailey
Pat Fischer
Paul Krause
Joe Lavender
Mike Bass
Sammy Baugh (if he's considered a CB and not a S)

I would rather have these guys as my # 1 corner instead of Hall (each considered in his prime, without injury), but as I have said before, my preference is for "more substance, less style" type of CBs. That being said, it is debateable who is "better" in terms of overall contribution to the Skins.

S. Springs
C. Rogers
Tom Carter

[SirClintonPortis]

It's real simple. How many points and time of possession(and sometimes field position) has Hall provided FOR the Redskins vs how many points and/or time of possession Hall helped give to the opponent. Even if Hall doesn't "fully contribute" to a score or more ToP, he still partitially contributes on plays where he is involved. Picks are valuable, but if that same player is coughing up points or helping the opposing O extend drives, the player's net benefit to the team is not as high.

And really, the ultimate pinnacle for a CB is when he become "untouchable", a state in which opposing offenses won't EVEN try to test him because he causes a "failed play" for an offense so frequently. Hall certainly has not reached that level, and he's at the age where one can safely say he never will. And a shitty team around him is not an excuse. Nnamdi was not tested much in Oakland, despite their porous run D, terrible offense, and awful "culture".

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

If you feel disrespected, then with all due respect, you're probably taking this a little too personally and have placed yourself higher than you ought to. And if you feel that the stats that you've produced are somehow superior than Bucket's, or for that matter the same stats I've mentioned in another thread, then, again, I really don't know what to say about that.

But let's agree on this -- we all want the Redskins defense to be as dominant as they can as a unit, not prizing individual performances that rarely yield championships or playoff appearances. In short, I have no interest in seeing D.Hall kill it this year for the sole purpose of coming here to thump my chest and say I told you so.

I should clarify that I don't feel personally disrespected. Really, that should be universal by now, more than 13,000 posts in. I don't feel personally disrespected about anything.

It's disrespectful to my argument to say that my evidence and someone elses evidence are basically equal. That's an easily preconcieved perspective (wow! Both these sides bring great points all the time!) that didn't reflect the reality of the situation. Really, it gives the opportunity to belittle my objectivity in the numbers as an exercise in hating. There is no better word to fit that than disrespectful. If you were respecting my ability to defend my position, I think you would have seen that most of my best points weren't even drawing responses. I mean, what can you say about the 31st defense having the corner with the highest number of passing yards against outside of, "oh, well, that makes sense."

This isn't a matter of right and wrong, it's fact vs. opinion. When the best defense of an argument that is brought up is "it's ten other guys' fault," well...okay then.

1) 5 to 10 other guys on defense are the reason that Hall gives up a lot of yards
2) if you disagree with this, you are biased

This is Bucket's argument in logical form. Is this really something you wish to defend? People like him should not ever, ever use the term bias.