Will Jason Campbell return?

[Sonny9TD]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I don't think 'franchise' quarterbacks throw as few td's as Jason is trending towards continuing to do. He's clearly not a consistent scoring threat for us. That consistency is based on the limited data we've got. If he makes it as a franchise qb, it wont be with the 'skins.

You don't need my help but I'll take your side on this. Totally agree.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

G-What imploded last year that led to that decrease in projection? The O-line right? So how is Derrick Dockery alone going to fix that? And in turn, if the Oline flounders again due to injury(entirely possible), then Jason's gone. Possibly to flourish somewhere else. I don't think there's another way to look at it. Right or wrong.

If Samuels doesn't get injured, Campbell's December looks very very different.

But it wasn't just the OLine. You could see it in Zorn's gameplanning. Campbell and Portis were the only guys you could trust to run any play right. Moss had no big play ability, ARE dropped off the face of the planet, Thomas and Kelly were useless, Yoder played himself off the field, even Sellers made two huge game changing mistakes in that month. Cooley fumbled a game away. And THEN the protection from not only the OL, but the usually dependable Portis was crap.

So yeah, there was a lot of heat on Zorn because it was an entire offensive breakdown. And Campbell showed a lot of poise in altering his game to pick up a lot of the offensive slack. Became a leader, if you want to use those terms. Leaders tend to arise out of adverse situations, not because things are going well.

And he played all 16 games. Which is very underrated, IMO. Because after the Cincinnati loss, there was nothing left to gain from leaving him out there behind that line. But not only did he not break down, he made some week to week improvements, and almost won the SF game singlehandedly.

So I like Campbell for that, and I like Campbell for his composure this offseason. I don't know if he will turn into a great quarterback, but I would suggest if he doesn't, we find out why he didn't, and fix it fast.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Paintrain, what age and draft position is the player you speak of?

He was 26 at the time and is a QB. EDIT-And is not Eli Manning.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I don't think 'franchise' quarterbacks throw as few td's as Jason is trending towards continuing to do. He's clearly not a consistent scoring threat for us. That consistency is based on the limited data we've got. If he makes it as a franchise qb, it wont be with the 'skins.

Well, we also don't have any touchdown scorers on the offense that would make you think, why are their numbers suffering? Cooley had a 1 TD year last year, so if he doesn't rebound, I might get worried. But Moss was never a big TD guy, neither was ARE. The fact that the big scorer on this team is the RB explains why Campbell probably shouldn't ever be graded by his TD totals.

This is a different point if his INT rate rises to meet his TD rate. At a 1:1 TD/INT rate, Campbell is ineffective. But at 5:2 or 3:1, he's a very effective, borderline pro-bowler. That's what we should look for this year.

The pro bowl voters do tend to get caught up in the big TD numbers, which is why I think if the team can replace those 35+ TD seasons with wins, Campbell will get his dues.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

He was 26 at the time and is a QB. EDIT-And is not Eli Manning.

Brees?

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, we also don't have any touchdown scorers on the offense that would make you think, why are their numbers suffering? Cooley had a 1 TD year last year, so if he doesn't rebound, I might get worried. But Moss was never a big TD guy, neither was ARE. The fact that the big scorer on this team is the RB explains why Campbell probably shouldn't ever be graded by his TD totals.

This is a different point if his INT rate rises to meet his TD rate. At a 1:1 TD/INT rate, Campbell is ineffective. But at 5:2 or 3:1, he's a very effective, borderline pro-bowler. That's what we should look for this year.

The pro bowl voters do tend to get caught up in the big TD numbers, which is why I think if the team can replace those 35+ TD seasons with wins, Campbell will get his dues.

Very good points.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Brees?

Exactly. Brees and Campbell have had very similar early careers. Young QB who were regarded as developmental prospects with potentially high ceilings coming out of school. Early struggles with inconsistency and decision making. Both had a great running back and a decent team around them but not elite playmaking receivers.. Lots of questions from their fan bases and front offices as to whether or not they were the guy. Very public pursuits of other QB to replace them. Both made a statement, 'This is my team and I am going to lead them as such.' Brees had a huge breakout season with 27 TD the following season.

I am not comparing Campbell to Brees in saying that he's going to drop 27 TD like Brees did, but pointing out the short sightedness of giving up on young QB who have shown some ability to play at this level with some success.

[GTripp0012]

I think you could make an argument right now that the two best QBs in football (or two of the three best if you aren't worried about Peyton's age) are Brees and Rivers. So, as crazy as the decision to draft Rivers was, given the lack of help Brees had over the first three years of his career (but he had a pro bowl RB!), I actually agree with their decision to let him walk.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think you could make an argument right now that the two best QBs in football (or two of the three best if you aren't worried about Peyton's age) are Brees and Rivers. So, as crazy as the decision to draft Rivers was, given the lack of help Brees had over the first three years of his career (but he had a pro bowl RB!), I actually agree with their decision to let him walk.

Agreed, that was a best of both worlds scenario. They got a franchise QB to replace their franchise QB.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

It's not being completely dismissive. And it is a variable in a QB's development. Just not alone a very good excuse for not leaping forward. Your final analysis is accurate though...should he not perform, goodbye.

I guess this is the year we find out. Of course if he does well, the credit will be given to the receivers and/or the o-line for stepping up, which is fine. Because, of course, it's not all on the QB.

[irish]

Originally Posted by DBUCHANON101

At best he's a 1st round pick who is turning into .... Ben Roethlisberger.

Are you serious?? Big Ben wins games.. Thats the difference.What was the streak Pittsburgh went on? But this isnt a fair deal. Big Ben is in a power run O and its not all on him. The WCO goes as the QB goes and with JC, we wont go far.IMO

Except that last year the Steelers had no running game and their O line was nothing to brag about yet the Steelers won it all. A lot of that was because BR knows how to manage games and make plays. At this point JC doesnt look like he can do either well. Like you said, BR wins games and good stats or bad stats dont matter, he just keeps winning games.

Like another poster mentioned, It looks like JC could become Dilfer. I hope the Skins get that lucky with him.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

If Samuels doesn't get injured, Campbell's December looks very very different.

But it wasn't just the OLine. You could see it in Zorn's gameplanning. Campbell and Portis were the only guys you could trust to run any play right. Moss had no big play ability, ARE dropped off the face of the planet, Thomas and Kelly were useless, Yoder played himself off the field, even Sellers made two huge game changing mistakes in that month. Cooley fumbled a game away. And THEN the protection from not only the OL, but the usually dependable Portis was crap.

So yeah, there was a lot of heat on Zorn because it was an entire offensive breakdown. And Campbell showed a lot of poise in altering his game to pick up a lot of the offensive slack. Became a leader, if you want to use those terms. Leaders tend to arise out of adverse situations, not because things are going well.

And he played all 16 games. Which is very underrated, IMO. Because after the Cincinnati loss, there was nothing left to gain from leaving him out there behind that line. But not only did he not break down, he made some week to week improvements, and almost won the SF game singlehandedly.

So I like Campbell for that, and I like Campbell for his composure this offseason. I don't know if he will turn into a great quarterback, but I would suggest if he doesn't, we find out why he didn't, and fix it fast.

Good stuff GTripp...

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Exactly. Brees and Campbell have had very similar early careers. Young QB who were regarded as developmental prospects with potentially high ceilings coming out of school. Early struggles with inconsistency and decision making. Both had a great running back and a decent team around them but not elite playmaking receivers.. Lots of questions from their fan bases and front offices as to whether or not they were the guy. Very public pursuits of other QB to replace them. Both made a statement, 'This is my team and I am going to lead them as such.' Brees had a huge breakout season with 27 TD the following season.

I am not comparing Campbell to Brees in saying that he's going to drop 27 TD like Brees did, but pointing out the short sightedness of giving up on young QB who have shown some ability to play at this level with some success.

IMO Brees is the best QB in the game today...I really hope JC rises to his level of play.

[Ruhskins]

Here's my message to all Campbell haters...let the guy play this year. Yes, you've argued your point to death (with good and bad points) that he is not a good QB. And those of us who support him have countered these arguments to death as well. So let the guy play and hope that he does well. I would hope that you are still enough of a fan to hope that he will work out this season enough to get us to the playoffs. In this league, anything can happen, so no one should be 100% sure that he is going to fail (and if you are, then why bother following the Redskins for the next season?).

If Campbell works out, then great, you have to endure our "I told you so" and you get to enjoy your team in the playoffs. We can worry about how to keep Campbell at the end of the season.

If Campbell doesn't work out, well then you get to gloat in your "I told you so" but I guaranteed it'll be short lived, since it means that the team has had a mediocre to losing season. We can then move on from Jason Campbell, and try to draft our QB of the future.

Until this happen, I don't see the point of re-hashing this topic, at least until the season starts and we actually see him play (or the preseason).

[CRedskinsRule]

Well said Ruhskins