Fresh Start Political Thread

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by nonniey

It certainly appears like we are paying an enormously higher price (Prestige, trust, lives and yes probably treasure too(which you were highlighting)) in leaving than we would have if we stayed. In other words it certainly looks like it was worth staying. Due to this surrender, we've already payed more in lives than we had in the last 18 months and frankly I'm sure other Americans have already been killed there that we don't know about yet and more will killed due to our surrender of Afghanistan to the Taliban.

ive heard 3 things so far that I agree with.

1. from day 1 back in early 2000 .. perhaps the best approach wouldnt have been to try and stabilize the entire country and competing tribes but take like half of it, fortify that area and let the other half be taliban a al S Korea and N Korea.

2. may 1 withdrawl (while still being rushed and imperfect) was a better date bc that would have been right at beginning of the fighting season and the Taliban wouldnt have been poised to threaten Kabul so quickly .. vs now, august right in the middle of the war season.

3. If we stayed, it wasnt going to as "peaceful" as it had been the past few years. I think the calmness the past few years was conditioned on us leaving.

For whatever its worth, this keyboard warrior is glad we are pulling out.

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

ive heard 3 things so far that I agree with.

1. from day 1 back in early 2000 .. perhaps the best approach wouldnt have been to try and stabilize the entire country and competing tribes but take like half of it, fortify that area and let the other half be taliban a al S Korea and N Korea.

2. may 1 withdrawl (while still being rushed and imperfect) was a better date bc that would have been right at beginning of the fighting season and the Taliban wouldnt have been poised to threaten Kabul so quickly .. vs now, august right in the middle of the war season.

3. If we stayed, it wasnt going to as "peaceful" as it had been the past few years. I think the calmness the past few years was conditioned on us leaving.

For whatever its worth, this keyboard warrior is glad we are pulling out.

RE Point 3. The "peaceful" period goes back to 2014 years before anyone in power was proposing leaving. We had this under control and along came Trump and Biden who thought surrender was the better option. It is now readily apparent it was the worst choice that could have been made.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by nonniey

RE Point 3. The "peaceful" period goes back to 2014 years before anyone in power was proposing leaving. We had this under control and along came Trump and Biden who thought surrender was the better option. It is now readily apparent it was the worst choice that could have been made.

Surrender??? WTF? We trained 350,000 Afghan citizens to defend their own Country. We gave them ,support in every way imaginable ,our Country was /is overwhelmingly for getting out of that shit hole. I have said before I feel for all still there but when do they take responsibility for themselves? This was not a surprise to anyone why were people waiting to leave?

[nonniey]

[QUOTE=Giantone;1288331..... /is overwhelmingly for getting out of that shit hole.......[/QUOTE]

Like I posted above it is hard for people to admit they supported the wrong position even when events clearly show it to be the wrong position. There is no question now (none!) that the wrong decision was made by both Trump and Biden in surrendering Afghanistan to the Taliban (and yes surrender is the right word for it - get used to it too as that term is starting to take hold - see link below). We are paying a high price for their ineptitude and will continue to pay it for years to come.


https://www.militarytimes.com/opinio...-of-surrender/

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by nonniey

Like I posted above it is hard for people to admit they supported the wrong position even when events clearly show it to be the wrong position. There is no question now (none!) that the wrong decision was made by both Trump and Biden in surrendering Afghanistan to the Taliban (and yes surrender is the right word for it - get used to it too as that term is starting to take hold - see link below). We are paying a high price for their ineptitude and will continue to pay it for years to come.


https://www.militarytimes.com/opinio...-of-surrender/

First and foremost the decision to leave was and is the right one.The implementation and carrying it out is the problem. To assume people agreed with the wrong position is BS. What was wrong with the plan to withdraw was counting on the afghans to defend their own Country. Again this isn't all Biden or trump this fuck up goes back to every administration since the 80's.

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by Giantone

First and foremost the decision to leave was and is the right one........

I'll repeat myself

"Like I posted above it is hard for people to admit they supported the wrong position even when events clearly show it to be the wrong position".


Goal - Do what is in the best interests of the United States.

There isn't really a question whether it was the wrong decision - It is costing us more to leave (across the board) than it would have if we stayed. The surrender decision was not in the best interests of the United States and thus the wrong decision to make (Events have shown that - laid it out plain as day etc).

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by nonniey

I'll repeat myself



"Like I posted above it is hard for people to admit they supported the wrong position even when events clearly show it to be the wrong position".





Goal - Do what is in the best interests of the United States.



There isn't really a question whether it was the wrong decision - It is costing us more to leave (across the board) than it would have if we stayed. The surrender decision was not in the best interests of the United States and thus the wrong decision to make (Events have shown that - laid it out plain as day etc).

That is like giving a grade to a draft before any player has taken the field. The long term interest of the United States is not to be a protectorate or empire building state. The exit/withdrawal/surrender was handled badly. That cost many lives. The decision to stay this long was likely flawed but history will judge.

It may be hard for people to admit they are wrong, but it is also way to early in the end game of Afghanistan to say that leaving was the wrong one.

Time, as always, will be the determining factor in the role the US played in Afghanistan's development.

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