I See QB Rumors (2012 QB Thread: The Sixth Sense)

[Drewsky27]

I honestly think RG3 will fall to us at number 6. Holmegren said he was going to get competion for mccoy, most likely from free agency. Shanahan said the same thing last season about getting competition and didnt take gabbert at 10 in the first round when had the chance, thank god. Well just have to see over the next months but i dont think the browns biggest need is qb.

[12thMan]

Holding out for Bradford myself.

If --big IF--Peyton plays, he could land in Zona and that might put Kolb back on the market.

[diehard]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Manning: Hey coach, you got any gabapentin or pregabalin?
Shanahan: [blank stare]

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

So, you truly believe that Bradford is a franchise QB? Ponder is a franchise QB? you believe Freeman is a franchise QB? McCoy is a franchise QB? .

No I don't believe Bradford,Ponder and McCoy are currently franchise QB.
But I do think they have the potential to be franchise QBs and....

Originally Posted by 30gut

Imo a team that has a potential franchise QB doesn't draft another QB just because of preference.
If those teams drafted another QB (Griffin) it means their entire organization is making a paradigm shift.

I do think that Freeman is the Buc's franchise QB though.
And like I said in my previous post the Browns (i.e. McCoy) are the one team we need to be ahead of because I think they're the least married to their current QB.
But, I still doubt they're ready to move on from him.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Those QB's are as good or better then RGIII? cause if you can't say that then figure on those teams possibly taking RGIII and getting rid of what they got.... "IF" RGIII is truly a franchise QB

Huh?
How does one going about comparing whether NFL QBs are as good as college QB NFL prospect?
What basis do you use to judge?
Do you mean to ask if I think Griffin is a better prospect then some of them were? Yes.
Do I think Griffin is currently a better NFL QB? No.

You ask an unknowable question then use it as grounds to leap to an equally unknowable conclusion based on "IF" RGIII truly is franchise QB (which we can't know).

My question for you is this:
Why would a team with a potenital franchise QB get rid of their QB for another potential franchise QB?

Cheers

[NYCskinfan82]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Holding out for Bradford myself.

If --big IF--Peyton plays, he could land in Zona and that might put Kolb back on the market.

I would like that too.

[Higskin]

I wonder if we rekindle our interest in Leinart as a backup guy?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by 30gut

No I don't believe Bradford,Ponder and McCoy are currently franchise QB.
But I do think they have the potential to be franchise QBs and....

I do think that Freeman is the Buc's franchise QB though.
And like I said in my previous post the Browns (i.e. McCoy) are the one team we need to be ahead of because I think they're the least married to their current QB.
But, I still doubt they're ready to move on from him.

Huh?
How does one going about comparing whether NFL QBs are as good as college QB NFL prospect?
What basis do you use to judge?
Do you mean to ask if I think Griffin is a better prospect then some of them were? Yes.
Do I think Griffin is currently a better NFL QB? No.

You ask an unknowable question then use it as grounds to leap to an equally unknowable conclusion based on "IF" RGIII truly is franchise QB (which we can't know).

My question for you is this:
Why would a team with a potenital franchise QB get rid of their QB for another potential franchise QB?

Cheers

The question is: do you think RGIII is better then those QB's right now? and your question is the exact question I'm trying to get you to. Why would a team trade away a franchise QB for RGIII if they already have one? they wouldn't, unless they are not franchise QB's.

So I'm "assuming" your thinking the Rams will not trade Bradford, the Vikes wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over Ponder, the Bucks wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over Freeman, and the Browns wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over McCoy. Right? thats essentially what your saying... those other QB's are franchise QB's and their respective teams will want them and RGIII will fall to the Redskins at #6. and all I'm saying is it aint happening. I think several fans here see RGIII as an upgrade over Bradford to include me, an upgrade over Ponder, an upgrade over Freeman easily, an upgrade over McCoy. So I'd be shocked if RGIII simply fell to #6.

Do I think those other QB's can be franchise QB's? probably if they are in the right scheme and their talents used properly along with a few yrs of developement. But in this day and age of instant gratification I see no way the 4 teams above us simply say "no, were happy with what we got and can wait for our QB to become a franchise QB if they ever do."

[tc2deuce]

Originally Posted by 12thMan
Holding out for Bradford myself.

If --big IF--Peyton plays, he could land in Zona and that might put Kolb back on the market.

just what we need another Eagle QB on the decline

[MTK]

The Vikings already have Ponder and Webb, why are we talking about them taking a QB?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by tc2deuce

Originally Posted by 12thMan
Holding out for Bradford myself.

If --big IF--Peyton plays, he could land in Zona and that might put Kolb back on the market.

just what we need another Eagle QB on the decline

Um, no thank you. I don't even see him as a good back up, and never did. I just don't see the Cards as big a contender as others do and really don't know why Peyton would want to go there. Besides I'd think the Cards would stick it out one more year with Kolb since they need to show they were not idiots to make the trade with the Eagles.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Um, no thank you. I don't even see him as a good back up, and never did. I just don't see the Cards as big a contender as others do and really don't know why Peyton would want to go there. Besides I'd think the Cards would stick it out one more year with Kolb since they need to show they were not idiots to make the trade with the Eagles.

Using your logic if an upgrade is out there they should consider it, right?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The Vikings already have Ponder and Webb, why are we talking about them taking a QB?

Um, my point was... I don't see RGIII falling to the Skins at #6 when he alluded to that. I simply was saying if your any one of those teams above us would you consider yourself set at QB and would have no interest in RGIII? because I can tell you the only team who shouldn't have any questions right now is the Colts because they still have Peyton. Presuming he's gone then even they might take RGIII over Luck we really don't know.

I personally can see all those teams thinking RGIII is an upgrade over their present QB's and "IF" he's the franchise QB half the fans here believe then common sense tells me other teams fans do also and quite possibly other teams owners and HC's. I just don't see why some of us seem to live in our own little bubbles like no one else is going to want RGIII or be interested in RGIII but us and then talk about how he's a franchise QB and he hasn't even played a down. If people can predict that he will be a franchise QB then I'm glad that the Rams, Vikes, Bucks, and Browns are not interested in him so we can atleast get our franchise QB of the future.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Um, my point was... I don't see RGIII falling to the Skins at #6 when he alluded to that. I simply was saying if your any one of those teams above us would you consider yourself set at QB and would have no interest in RGIII? because I can tell you the only team who shouldn't have any questions right now is the Colts because they still have Peyton. Presuming he's gone then even they might take RGIII over Luck we really don't know.

I personally can see all those teams thinking RGIII is an upgrade over their present QB's and "IF" he's the franchise QB half the fans here believe then common sense tells me other teams fans do also and quite possibly other teams owners and HC's. I just don't see why some of us seem to live in our own little bubbles like no one else is going to want RGIII or be interested in RGIII but us and then talk about how he's a franchise QB and he hasn't even played a down. If people can predict that he will be a franchise QB then I'm glad that the Rams, Vikes, Bucks, and Browns are not interested in him so we can atleast get our franchise QB of the future.

I think there's a decent chance of RGIII falling to #6, assuming nobody trades up. The Colts are definitely looking for a QB, and the Browns could be. The Vikings and Bucs aren't taking a QB. Neither are the Rams, unless they deal Bradford.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Using your logic if an upgrade is out there they should consider it, right?

We are considering it. So yes. The only teams I can see not considering it are the Panthers since they had the #1 last year and Cinci because Dalton played rather well.

But I'm not even talking about all teams. I'm not talking about GB, or Giants, or Patriots or any of the playoff teams. I'm simply talking about the 5 teams above us in this yrs draft and only a few behind us like Miami, Seattle, and possibly Dallas.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Colts picked RGIII, nor the Rams, Vikes, Bucks, or Browns. Why? because although a couple have drafted a QB last year... no way they pass up on a top 2 QB in a draft which would be better then what they have. possibly.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

The question is: do you think RGIII is better then those QB's right now?

Originally Posted by 30gut

Do I think Griffin is currently a better NFL QB? No.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Why would a team trade away a franchise QB for RGIII if they already have one? they wouldn't, unless they are not franchise QB's.

This is circular logic that I don't follow.

So I'm "assuming" your thinking the Rams will not trade Bradford, the Vikes wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over Ponder, the Bucks wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over Freeman, and the Browns wouldn't see RGIII as an upgrade over McCoy. Right?

I get the distinct feeling that in your haste to disagree with me that you aren't even reading my posts.

You have one part of your assumption correct in that I don't think the Rams,Vikes or Bucs will draft RGIII.
Whether or not they view RGIII as an upgrade isn't the question.
For one upgrade is a needlessly ambiguous term.
Teams judge QBs as prospects with grades and by tiers.
Lets say that all tier 1 QBs have franchise potential.
But even within that tier of potential franchise QBs there will be grades.
Imo a team doesn't replace a tier 1 franchise potential QB with another tier 1 potential franchise QB even if Griffin is an upgrade in terms of 'grade' as a prospect.

But I don't understand why you need to make assumptions anyway when I've stated my point very clearly and I'll restate it again here:

Imo a team that has a potential franchise QB doesn't draft another potential franchise QB just because of preference.
If those teams drafted another QB (Griffin) it means their entire organization is making a major paradigm shift in the direction of the entire team.

thats essentially what your saying... those other QB's are franchise QB's and their respective teams will want them and RGIII will fall to the Redskins at #6

Close but your missing a major distinction: i'm not making the claim that those QBs are franchise (QBs except for Freeman) only that they have the potential to be; which is the same potential that Griffin may possess.

and all I'm saying is it aint happening.[Griff falling to #6] I think several fans here see RGIII as an upgrade over Bradford to include me, an upgrade over Ponder, an upgrade over Freeman easily, an upgrade over McCoy. So I'd be shocked if RGIII simply fell to #6.

Unless you can predict the future, you meant to say you think its not gonna happen and it might not happen.
And to be clear my statement was this:

Originally Posted by 30gut

Call me crazy but I think the chances of Griff being available at 6 are reasonable..........I recall last year when everyone swore the Bills, Bengals, Cards and 49ers would take a QB in the1st and none did.
That's why I think there's a good chance Griff falls to us at 6.

Do I think those other QB's can be franchise QB's? probably if they are in the right scheme and their talents used properly along with a few yrs of developement. But in this day and age of instant gratification I see no way the 4 teams above us simply say "no, were happy with what we got and can wait for our QB to become a franchise QB if they ever do."

But why would Griffin be any different?
Griffin may become a franchise QB if he's in the right scheme and his talents are used properly along with a few years of development just as the other QBs may, in fact those QB have a year or more of development headstart on him.
I get that you like Griffin, I like Griffin too as I've said repeatedly I think he's the best QB prospect in this draft but it doesn't make him any more of lock to become a franchise QB then Bradford, Ponder, McCoy and especially Freeman who imo is already the Buc's franchise QB.