Whats Fair When it Comes to Taxes?

[over the mountain]

i agree with most of what you said.

after looking into welfare, medicair medicaid i came to the conclusion that you are better off getting medicaid, welfare, unemployment, section 8, food stamps while working an under the table job like a drug dealer, house cleaner, dish washer, cook, etc.

the people who work for 22 to 40k a year are getting screwed. you make just enough not to qualify for any assistance, have to actually wake up and work a shit job while getting shitted on, have to pay taxes, find a way to pay rent and provide helthcare for your family.

anybody who makes less than 40k should work under the table jobs and qualify for all types of govt assistance. if you got paid 20k a year to clean houses 15 hours a week plus all that govt assistance youd probably end up making 40k plus and you wouldnt have to worry about ever being evicted or getting large medical bills and have all the free time in the world to watch murray and the price is right.

my lady currently works a part time under the table job, i wish she would collect unemployment and welfare, food stamps etc but she has too much pride. .. well, pride dont pay your cell phone bill does it honey pie?

what i dont agree with you on is i think rich people have way to many tax loopholes that they can make 10 mil a year but their taxable income is like 83k. i just reviewed a business owners tax returns, he made 113k and NONE OF IT WAS TAXABLE! WTF! he got money back.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

my lady currently works a part time under the table job, i wish she would collect unemployment and welfare, food stamps etc but she has too much pride. .. well, pride dont pay your cell phone bill does it honey pie?

what i dont agree with you on is i think rich people have way to many tax loopholes that they can make 10 mil a year but their taxable income is like 83k. i just reviewed a business owners tax returns, he made 113k and NONE OF IT WAS TAXABLE! WTF! he got money back.

Yeah you need to talk some sense into her! Maybe you could guilt trick her with something like “Do you think a person who accepts handouts should be looked down upon, or should a kid still be proud of his mom because she’s on welfare? Maybe I just think people can still be proud of the things they accomplish regardless of the circumstance they are in or the opportunities they are offered…..”

I also agree that we have too many loopholes or what i call incentives and i think everyone should pay the same percent. So if that number happens to be 9% a guy making 10 mill will be paying 900k in taxes and the guy making 113k will be paying 10k in taxes. If Warren Buffet make 100 million via capital gains he pays 9 million in taxes which would be more in dollar terms but equal in percentage terms as his security making 50k paying $4,500 in tax. No loopholes or incentives for anything except charity.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

i agree with most of what you said.

after looking into welfare, medicair medicaid i came to the conclusion that you are better off getting medicaid, welfare, unemployment, section 8, food stamps while working an under the table job like a drug dealer, house cleaner, dish washer, cook, etc.

the people who work for 22 to 40k a year are getting screwed. you make just enough not to qualify for any assistance, have to actually wake up and work a shit job while getting shitted on, have to pay taxes, find a way to pay rent and provide helthcare for your family.

anybody who makes less than 40k should work under the table jobs and qualify for all types of govt assistance. if you got paid 20k a year to clean houses 15 hours a week plus all that govt assistance youd probably end up making 40k plus and you wouldnt have to worry about ever being evicted or getting large medical bills and have all the free time in the world to watch murray and the price is right.

my lady currently works a part time under the table job, i wish she would collect unemployment and welfare, food stamps etc but she has too much pride. .. well, pride dont pay your cell phone bill does it honey pie?

what i dont agree with you on is i think rich people have way to many tax loopholes that they can make 10 mil a year but their taxable income is like 83k. i just reviewed a business owners tax returns, he made 113k and NONE OF IT WAS TAXABLE! WTF! he got money back.

For that to be true he lost his ass over the year. When I first started my business the business might have made 80k one yr but after I paid everyone and all the bills I made nothing. So I owed no taxes.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

i agree with most of what you said.

after looking into welfare, medicair medicaid i came to the conclusion that you are better off getting medicaid, welfare, unemployment, section 8, food stamps while working an under the table job like a drug dealer, house cleaner, dish washer, cook, etc.

the people who work for 22 to 40k a year are getting screwed. you make just enough not to qualify for any assistance, have to actually wake up and work a shit job while getting shitted on, have to pay taxes, find a way to pay rent and provide helthcare for your family.

anybody who makes less than 40k should work under the table jobs and qualify for all types of govt assistance. if you got paid 20k a year to clean houses 15 hours a week plus all that govt assistance youd probably end up making 40k plus and you wouldnt have to worry about ever being evicted or getting large medical bills and have all the free time in the world to watch murray and the price is right.

my lady currently works a part time under the table job, i wish she would collect unemployment and welfare, food stamps etc but she has too much pride. .. well, pride dont pay your cell phone bill does it honey pie?

what i dont agree with you on is i think rich people have way to many tax loopholes that they can make 10 mil a year but their taxable income is like 83k. i just reviewed a business owners tax returns, he made 113k and NONE OF IT WAS TAXABLE! WTF! he got money back.

So your point is the tax payers should subsidies her cell phone bill.

[saden1]

No one likes the IRS, including me, but we all have to do what we must. It's funny you posted this thread today because I just got a letter today from the IRS saying I owe them 25K in back taxes from 2009 on top of a 5K in penalty for unreported income. Of course what these mother fckers don't realize is they've already collected taxes on said income and all I have to do is file an amended Schedule D. It's a pain in the ass but what isn't these days?

Bottom line is a lot of people want simplicity these days but they also want the ability to do some deductions and take tax breaks. I dont know how you simplify that. Shiit, I want more deductions not a simpler process.

Anyways, I got to go dig-up my records and settle this matter before the 90 days they've given me and avoid having wages garnished.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by saden1

No one likes the IRS, including me, but we all have to do what we must.

Bottom line is a lot of people want simplicity these days but they also want the ability to do some deductions and take tax breaks. I dont know how you simplify that. Shiit, I want more deductions not a simpler process.

The only thing i love more then a deduction is a credit, and if its refundable im really smitten. But I would be happy with having a simple incentive free tax code as long as it was fair. Fair to me means everyone pays the same percentage on all their income (earned or otherwise) less charitable donations.

In your opinion would it be fair to treat everyone equally and charge them the same percentage? Do you think its currently fair that only half of us pay federal income taxes?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

The only thing i love more then a deduction is a credit, and if its refundable im really smitten. But I would be happy with having a simple incentive free tax code as long as it was fair. Fair to me means everyone pays the same percentage on all their income (earned or otherwise) less charitable donations.

In your opinion would it be fair to treat everyone equally and charge them the same percentage? Do you think its currently fair that only half of us pay federal income taxes?

Who told you life is fair? If it was fair we would all be well off, there wouldn't be children that go to sleep hungry at night or homeless veterans, or fund managers who pay 15% CGT on the hard earned money of others.

Get over your pursuit of perfection and fairness and start seeking sensibility and practicality. It doesn't seem fair to me to have the local grocery bagger pay $4 for a loaf of bread and 15% on their income tax and for the CEO of the grocery store to also pays $4 for a loaf of bread and 15% on their income tax. On the surface it looks pretty fair but while the CEO wipes his ass with $100 bills and is unable to notice a measly $4 the grocery store clerk will.

The cost of rent/mortgage and consumable goods are high and unless you want to live like a caveman someone making 30k can barely survive in this country. Bottom line is the clerk will consume most of his income on all the things one need to live a decent life while the CEO can't spend enough to on his neighborhood for eternity. As such they shouldn't be treated the same in matter of taxation.

Some will say, well, why should the CEO have to subsidize other people...to these people I say who is subsidizing the CEO and why shouldn't they pay more considering they benefit the most?

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by saden1

Who told you life is fair? If it was fair we would all be well off, there wouldn't be children that go to sleep hungry at night or homeless veterans, or fund managers who pay 15% CGT on the hard earned money of others.

Get over your pursuit of perfection and fairness and start seeking sensibility and practicality. It doesn't seem fair to me to have the local grocery bagger pay $4 for a loaf of bread and 15% on their income tax and for the CEO of the grocery store to also pays $4 for a loaf of bread and 15% on their income tax. On the surface it looks pretty fair but while the CEO wipes his ass with $100 bills and is unable to notice a measly $4 the grocery store clerk will.

The cost of rent/mortgage and consumable goods are high and unless you want to live like a caveman someone making 30k can barely survive in this country. Bottom line is the clerk will consume most of his income on all the things one need to live a decent life while the CEO can't spend enough to on his neighborhood for eternity. As such they shouldn't be treated the same in matter of taxation.

Some will say, well, why should the CEO have to subsidize other people...to these people I say who is subsidizing the CEO and why shouldn't they pay more considering they benefit the most?

In school I was always taught that the reason people come to America is for opportunity. That America guarantees the pursuit of happiness for everyone but not a guarantee that everyone will be happy.

We are all born into different circumstances but just like you said life isn’t fair. Just like its not fair that some people are harder workers then others, smarter, better looking, smooth talking, better athletically, more innovative or...... just good ole rich. That’s just the way it is, some people are dealt better cards then others. Im not rich and I don’t come from a rich family, but I don’t think rich people should be punished just like I don’t think a hard worker, athlete or model should be punished because of their lack of misfortune.

I think people who earn more money should pay more taxes because like you said they are benefiting the most. That’s why I think a percentage is fair, as you earn more you pay more. I also think people at the bottom of the economic scale should be given more opportunity, kind of like they are now but through a more controlled process. So instead of giving someone a huge tax refund (relative to their income) at the end of the year to do what they like with, I think it would be more beneficial to provide them with tools through social programs that present individuals with opportunities to climb the economic latter if that what they choose to do. This would replace tax refunds and be in addition to the subsidies like housing vouchers and food stamps that many of us are already receiving. So more oppertunity for poorer people but its up to you to take advantage of it. Things will never be fair for everyone but i think treating everyone equally is start.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

In school I was always taught that the reason people come to America is for opportunity. That America guarantees the pursuit of happiness for everyone but not a guarantee that everyone will be happy.

We are all born into different circumstances but just like you said life isn’t fair. Just like its not fair that some people are harder workers then others, smarter, better looking, smooth talking, better athletically, more innovative or...... just good ole rich. That’s just the way it is, some people are dealt better cards then others. Im not rich and I don’t come from a rich family, but I don’t think rich people should be punished just like I don’t think a hard worker, athlete or model should be punished because of their lack of misfortune.

You seem to be missing historical context and profound misunderstanding of America. Land owners and the wealthy have always paid the most taxes since the inception of this country. In fact, today's rich pay much less than Thomas Jefferson or George Washington paid and with them being the founders you can hardly make the case that we are all of a sudden punishing anyone that's rich.

Those who are here or those who recently came here are free to leave at any time and take their belief and build their dream nation elsewhere.

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I think people who earn more money should pay more taxes because like you said they are benefiting the most. That’s why I think a percentage is fair, as you earn more you pay more. I also think people at the bottom of the economic scale should be given more opportunity, kind of like they are now but through a more controlled process. So instead of giving someone a huge tax refund (relative to their income) at the end of the year to do what they like with, I think it would be more beneficial to provide them with tools through social programs that present individuals with opportunities to climb the economic latter if that what they choose to do. This would replace tax refunds and be in addition to the subsidies like housing vouchers and food stamps that many of us are already receiving. So more oppertunity for poorer people but its up to you to take advantage of it. Things will never be fair for everyone but i think treating everyone equally is start.

A percentage is not fair for the simple fact that consumable goods and housing are expensive. A percentage wouldn't only punish the poor but the middle class. They are the biggest consumers of good....they will have to make decisions about whether to buy that 30K car + 17% sales tax or send their kid to college for another year. If these people have to make choices like that American would have a revolution brewing in no time.

Flat Tax advocates always present the bright side and positive numbers, they never present the potential pitfalls and ramifications. Any proposal to change the tax code shouldn't be a one page or three pages, it should be like a Form 10-K.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So your point is the tax payers should subsidies her cell phone bill.

Well its already being done for others:

snopes.com: Free Cell Phones for Welfare Recipients

Should a person with a mortgage and real-estate taxes be subsidized by tax payers by being able to itemizing and deduct many of the costs associated with that purchase?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Well its already being done for others:

snopes.com: Free Cell Phones for Welfare Recipients

Should a person with a mortgage and real-estate taxes be subsidized by tax payers by being able to itemizing and deduct many of the costs associated with that purchase?

Yes, because I own a home and getting ready to build a new one.