Whats Fair When it Comes to Taxes?

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by saden1

Who told you life is fair? If it was fair we would all be well off, there wouldn't be children that go to sleep hungry at night or homeless veterans, or fund managers who pay 15% CGT on the hard earned money of others.

Get over your pursuit of perfection and fairness and start seeking sensibility and practicality. It doesn't seem fair to me to have the local grocery bagger pay $4 for a loaf of bread and 15% on their income tax and for the CEO of the grocery store to also pays $4 for a loaf of bread and 15% on their income tax. On the surface it looks pretty fair but while the CEO wipes his ass with $100 bills and is unable to notice a measly $4 the grocery store clerk will.

The cost of rent/mortgage and consumable goods are high and unless you want to live like a caveman someone making 30k can barely survive in this country. Bottom line is the clerk will consume most of his income on all the things one need to live a decent life while the CEO can't spend enough to on his neighborhood for eternity. As such they shouldn't be treated the same in matter of taxation.

Some will say, well, why should the CEO have to subsidize other people...to these people I say who is subsidizing the CEO and why shouldn't they pay more considering they benefit the most?

In school I was always taught that the reason people come to America is for opportunity. That America guarantees the pursuit of happiness for everyone but not a guarantee that everyone will be happy.

We are all born into different circumstances but just like you said life isn’t fair. Just like its not fair that some people are harder workers then others, smarter, better looking, smooth talking, better athletically, more innovative or...... just good ole rich. That’s just the way it is, some people are dealt better cards then others. Im not rich and I don’t come from a rich family, but I don’t think rich people should be punished just like I don’t think a hard worker, athlete or model should be punished because of their lack of misfortune.

I think people who earn more money should pay more taxes because like you said they are benefiting the most. That’s why I think a percentage is fair, as you earn more you pay more. I also think people at the bottom of the economic scale should be given more opportunity, kind of like they are now but through a more controlled process. So instead of giving someone a huge tax refund (relative to their income) at the end of the year to do what they like with, I think it would be more beneficial to provide them with tools through social programs that present individuals with opportunities to climb the economic latter if that what they choose to do. This would replace tax refunds and be in addition to the subsidies like housing vouchers and food stamps that many of us are already receiving. So more oppertunity for poorer people but its up to you to take advantage of it. Things will never be fair for everyone but i think treating everyone equally is start.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

In school I was always taught that the reason people come to America is for opportunity. That America guarantees the pursuit of happiness for everyone but not a guarantee that everyone will be happy.

We are all born into different circumstances but just like you said life isn’t fair. Just like its not fair that some people are harder workers then others, smarter, better looking, smooth talking, better athletically, more innovative or...... just good ole rich. That’s just the way it is, some people are dealt better cards then others. Im not rich and I don’t come from a rich family, but I don’t think rich people should be punished just like I don’t think a hard worker, athlete or model should be punished because of their lack of misfortune.

You seem to be missing historical context and profound misunderstanding of America. Land owners and the wealthy have always paid the most taxes since the inception of this country. In fact, today's rich pay much less than Thomas Jefferson or George Washington paid and with them being the founders you can hardly make the case that we are all of a sudden punishing anyone that's rich.

Those who are here or those who recently came here are free to leave at any time and take their belief and build their dream nation elsewhere.

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I think people who earn more money should pay more taxes because like you said they are benefiting the most. That’s why I think a percentage is fair, as you earn more you pay more. I also think people at the bottom of the economic scale should be given more opportunity, kind of like they are now but through a more controlled process. So instead of giving someone a huge tax refund (relative to their income) at the end of the year to do what they like with, I think it would be more beneficial to provide them with tools through social programs that present individuals with opportunities to climb the economic latter if that what they choose to do. This would replace tax refunds and be in addition to the subsidies like housing vouchers and food stamps that many of us are already receiving. So more oppertunity for poorer people but its up to you to take advantage of it. Things will never be fair for everyone but i think treating everyone equally is start.

A percentage is not fair for the simple fact that consumable goods and housing are expensive. A percentage wouldn't only punish the poor but the middle class. They are the biggest consumers of good....they will have to make decisions about whether to buy that 30K car + 17% sales tax or send their kid to college for another year. If these people have to make choices like that American would have a revolution brewing in no time.

Flat Tax advocates always present the bright side and positive numbers, they never present the potential pitfalls and ramifications. Any proposal to change the tax code shouldn't be a one page or three pages, it should be like a Form 10-K.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by saden1

You seem to be missing historical context and profound misunderstanding of America. Land owners and the wealthy have always paid the most taxes since the inception of this country. In fact, today's rich pay much less than Thomas Jefferson or George Washington paid and with them being the founders you can hardly make the case that we are all of a sudden punishing anyone that's rich.

Those who are here or those who recently came here are free to leave at any time and take their belief and build their dream nation elsewhere.

I dont know what i said to make you think land owners or wealthy shouldnt be paying the most taxes on their income? I think they should be paying the most but through a flat percentage not a progresive tier. I did not know that Washington Or Jefferson paid higher taxes then today's rich (and wouldnt mind seeing a source that says so), but was it because they paid taxes on property they owned while others didnt own anything?

A percentage is not fair for the simple fact that consumable goods and housing are expensive. A percentage wouldn't only punish the poor but the middle class. They are the biggest consumers of good....they will have to make decisions about whether to buy that 30K car + 17% sales tax or send their kid to college for another year. If these people have to make choices like that American would have a revolution brewing in no time.

Flat Tax advocates always present the bright side and positive numbers, they never present the potential pitfalls and ramifications. Any proposal to change the tax code shouldn't be a one page or three pages, it should be like a Form 10-K.

Im not really advocating the Fair Tax if thats what youre alluding to here. Im just saying the federal income tax should be an equal percentage for all. But I don’t think that’s possible to do overnight and that’s what I like about 9 9 9. Im assuming your 35k + 17% in state and federal sales tax is a 999 reference? That’s a misleading example as many people don’t understand that the car is currently 35k + 8% + A Portion of the Money You Already Paid in Federal Income Taxes . A lower and equal tax on business will also reduce the price of the goods businesses produce since prices will reflect a lower tax amount embedded in the final product, so it may now be a 34k car + 8% +9%.

For some households that may be more than they would have paid in aggregate federal income taxes beforehand but for most it will be less. Also most poor people buy used cars, which wont be subject to federal taxes. While 999 lowers taxes for most it does raise it for some, but most importantly it gets rid of the loopholes for the rich….. except for capital gains which is partly why I think they should be taxed equall as well. Although Cain is promoting this as a jobs bill so not taxing capital gains will be a positive for the economy.