Rex Grossman may start this Sunday

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

No shit, people always want to bring the negatives out, the Guy is a damn good coach and he WILL make folks eat their words in WSH.

YES, you are correct!

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

And it's pretty telling that all of the listed hits by Loverro were on offense and his defensive picks leave much to be desired. So far, it's the same story here.

Looked to be a pretty good mix of both offensive and defensive selections. Are they future Hall of Famers? Maybe not, but the point is, Mike Shanahan isn't the outright worthless talent evaluator people make him out to be.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Retreads? You mean Parker and Larry Johnson? Parker didn't make the team and Johnson lasted, what, 3 games? Are Torain and Williams retreads? What else was he supposed to do at RB with the available draft picks and corresponding needs?

The O-line was shuffled in part because of injury -- and that's what just about every coaching staff all over the league has to do -- also to give the other guys a shot to see what they have. If he'd have stuck with one group who got run over and couldn't protect all season long, the fans would be up in arms. I have no complaints about what he did with what he had up front.

McNabb? Outside of pulling him in Detroit, he has shown remarkable patience despite reports of being disenchanted with his play and lingering injury issues.

He came to an organization that had been woefully mismanaged for 11 straight years, an old, overpaid, roster and season after season with depleted draft picks -- and because Shanahan hasn't corrected it in one offseason and 13 games he might not be "on his game"? Seriously?

Honestly, what did you expect with a 4-12 team?

Again, the standard 'be patient' BS. Injuries are a part of the game, not an excuse. The fact that we dicked around with Willie Parker and Larry Johnson the entire offseason, while Brian Westbrook, Lagarrette Blount, and Marshawn Lynch were on the market is our fault, that's not an excuse either.

Joey Galloway, major retread. Jammal Brown, a waste and a retread. Adam Carriker, Kemo, Philip Buchanan, Artis Hicks, Roydell Williams, Vonnie Holliday - all retreads. And so many more rotten, questionable moves and non-moves Shanny has made.

McNabb is so done here it's not even funny. It wouldn't surprise me if the guy doesn't even want to come back. Of course he'll toe the company line, but let's see what the offseason brings.

Can you honestly say this team is better than last year's team?

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I agree with you on this. I really don't think he's going to be back. It's painfully obvious that the Shanahans don't like the guy and I don't blame them. He's freakin' terrible and Philly knew what they were doing and got over on us. After watching Jackson last night I would think Minnesota might be in on a trade. Maybe...

...yeah.. Minnesota... He played under Childress in Philly too.... oh wait... lol

Honestly though, there will quite a few teams looking for a starting QB this offseason... Minny, Carolina, Seattle, San Fran (maybe?), Arizona (for sure!), Buffalo (maybe... Fitzpatrick actually has some pretty decent #s thus year... look 'em up), Cincy (maybe?), Indianapolis (just kidding! lol), Tennessee...

I definitely could see someone in that group valuing Donovan McNabb for their team.

Also... I don't think that people were expecting 4-12 to 12-4... but you watch the Chiefs, the Rams, and the Buccaneers... first you think... THAT'S what we were hoping for... then you realize... ALL THREE teams' coaches are in their SECOND SEASON with the team.... so I guess we'll see next year right??

(Side note... It's gotta be pretty good to be a Tampa fan and see wins and see 5 ROOKIES STARTING ON OFFENSE!... especially when one is a RB, 2 are WRs, and 2 are O-Linemen.... and of by the way, you're QB is 2nd-year pro... wow that'd be great eh!?)

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Change takes time, honestly 12th your expectations for this year seem a little unreasonable. Shanahan took over a 4-12 team that lacked depth and didn't have a full compliment of draft picks. Add in a limited free agent pool and the task of getting this team turned around in one offseason was a very tall one, and probably a very unlikely one. It's been a frustrating year but we've had some nice wins and some very tough losses. I think the team has been more competitive than some are giving them credit for, especially given the lack of depth and impact players. It's simply too early to be so down on this new regime.

okay, i'm a little heated (and tipsy) right now. you're right, but i'm just pissed. i'm tired and i'm pissed. i thought at least things would feel different with shanny at the helm, but it seems it's the same old same old.

i guess winning cures all as they say. but a little whisky and a lot of losing ain't a good mix.

i'm out.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Looked to be a pretty good mix of both offensive and defensive selections. Are they future Hall of Famers? Maybe not, but the point is, Mike Shanahan isn't the outright worthless talent evaluator people make him out to be.

I wasn't trying to paint him as worthless damnit, just that there is huge dichotomy between the quality of offensive draft selections and his defensive ones. Darrent Williams and Dumervil are the only high quality defensive players listed. The rest are either scrubs in disguise(the UFL'er, the Detroit corner) or solid reserves.
Compare that with Marshall, Cutler, Royal, Torain, Hillis, etc, and it's without debate that his eye for offensive talent is far sharper than his eye for defensive talent.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

...yeah.. Minnesota... He played under Childress in Philly too.... oh wait... lol

Honestly though, there will quite a few teams looking for a starting QB this offseason... Minny, Carolina, Seattle, San Fran (maybe?), Arizona (for sure!), Buffalo (maybe... Fitzpatrick actually has some pretty decent #s thus year... look 'em up), Cincy (maybe?), Indianapolis (just kidding! lol), Tennessee...

I definitely could see someone in that group valuing Donovan McNabb for their team.

Also... I don't think that people were expecting 4-12 to 12-4... but you watch the Chiefs, the Rams, and the Buccaneers... first you think... THAT'S what we were hoping for... then you realize... ALL THREE teams' coaches are in their SECOND SEASON with the team.... so I guess we'll see next year right??

(Side note... It's gotta be pretty good to be a Tampa fan and see wins and see 5 ROOKIES STARTING ON OFFENSE!... especially when one is a RB, 2 are WRs, and 2 are O-Linemen.... and of by the way, you're QB is 2nd-year pro... wow that'd be great eh!?)

The difference with those teams and us is they are rebuilding through the draft. Really really like what all those teams are doing. KC sprinkled in a few free agents and have had some great drafts the last two years. Pioli was out there and Snyder didn't even make a play for him.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

okay, i'm a little heated (and tipsy) right now. you're right, but i'm just pissed. i'm tired and i'm pissed. i thought at least things would feel different with shanny at the helm, but it seems it's the same old same old.

i guess winning cures all as they say. but a little whisky and a lot of losing ain't a good mix.

i'm out.

Judging by some of your posts here you're more than a bit tipsy

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Retreads? You mean Parker and Larry Johnson? Parker didn't make the team and Johnson lasted, what, 3 games? Are Torain and Williams retreads? What else was he supposed to do at RB with the available draft picks and corresponding needs?

The O-line was shuffled in part because of injury -- and that's what just about every coaching staff all over the league has to do -- also to give the other guys a shot to see what they have. If he'd have stuck with one group who got run over and couldn't protect all season long, the fans would be up in arms. I have no complaints about what he did with what he had up front.

McNabb? Outside of pulling him in Detroit, he has shown remarkable patience despite reports of being disenchanted with his play and lingering injury issues.

He came to an organization that had been woefully mismanaged for 11 straight years, an old, overpaid, roster and season after season with depleted draft picks -- and because Shanahan hasn't corrected it in one offseason and 13 games he might not be "on his game"? Seriously?

Honestly, what did you expect with a 4-12 team?

Improved on offense from last year, and if not improved, than at least as good as last year, with all the production coming from young players. That was the expectation.

When you isolate the receivers, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the offensive line, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the RBs, they are better than last year. Why are we, at best, no better than last year? It leaves a couple of options:

1) The tight ends have underachieved. This is unlikely. Cooley is a much better blocker than he was last season. Sure, he's having a dreadful receiving year and is frustrated with his role in the offense. But Fred Davis, who has been underutlized, plays like Antonio Gates out there when he gets reps. And Logan Paulsen is so much better than Todd Yoder that it's not even a fair comparison.

2) The quarterback play has declined from last season. If this is true, it's not showing up in the stats. McNabb is getting picked off more often than Jason Campbell ever did, but he's throwing more TDs, getting sacked less, and is creating more big plays. Overall, the production is statistically similar. Any argument that McNabb is playing worse than Campbell would have to be built around the fact that he has more help, like, Anthony Armstrong>Randle El. But I think the third option nullifies this fact.

3) The offensive coaching has declined. I think this is it. We went through 8 games with a crazy, gimmicky progression system that a veteran QB couldn't learn. We've improved the running scheme, but even in games where we do it well, we give up on it because we think we're a passing team. We probably are, but we waste a lot of plays stupidly, and we only trust McNabb as much as we have to. Which is more than we trust the running game. But not much. We refused to take Joey Galloway off the field no matter how poorly he played, decided Larry Johnson should make the team at the beginning, possibly costing the Texans game. We have no idea how to best use either Cooley or Davis. We have a Mike Sellers offensive package, for crying out loud. We won't give Keiland Williams, our best RB, the ball ever despite all the time Torain missed. We liked what we saw on film with Casey Rabach, somehow, and decided that he should be the center of this team (literally, and figuratively). They started Artis Hicks twice after pulling him for performance. They benched McNabb for Rex Grossman, and both Shanahan's think the world of Grossman.

It's been one mistake after another with these two. I'm not sure where the evidence is that either Shanahan can critically evaluate their OWN talent.

[SolidSnake84]

I think that Shanahan is still not happy with how McNabb has performed this year. They thought they were getting a major upgrade from Jason Campbell, and that hasn't really happened. McNabb is making more TD's though, but getting picked off often, so i think the point is nullified.

And McNabb's contract allegedly has a clause that the redskins can move on from him after 1 season if they are not happy, so Shanahan may use these final few games to see other QB's play, so he can make his decision. I dunno. I'm just speculating.

[Takeuon]

It doesn't matter who starts...Grossman or McFlabb...we're not going to win. At seasons end I sadly feel Dallas will end up with a better record then us and take 3rd in the NFC East.

The Skins have nothing in the tank and are missing on all cylinders. Put a fork in us!

[MTK]

Some parting wisdom from Hunter Smith:

"Changing the culture of a team takes a long time," said punter Hunter Smith, a 12-year veteran who was released Tuesday during his second season with Washington. "I played in Indianapolis. Indianapolis had a culture of losing and befuddling calamity and things like that. It took a few good players, it took a coaching change and building a culture of winning.

"That's just what has to happen here. Coach Shanahan is a winner. He's a proven winner. There's some great character on this team. But it is a microwave culture, and this is gonna take a little bit more of a crockpot approach."

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Improved on offense from last year, and if not improved, than at least as good as last year, with all the production coming from young players. That was the expectation.

When you isolate the receivers, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the offensive line, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the RBs, they are better than last year. Why are we, at best, no better than last year? It leaves a couple of options:

1) The tight ends have underachieved. This is unlikely. Cooley is a much better blocker than he was last season. Sure, he's having a dreadful receiving year and is frustrated with his role in the offense. But Fred Davis, who has been underutlized, plays like Antonio Gates out there when he gets reps. And Logan Paulsen is so much better than Todd Yoder that it's not even a fair comparison.

2) The quarterback play has declined from last season. If this is true, it's not showing up in the stats. McNabb is getting picked off more often than Jason Campbell ever did, but he's throwing more TDs, getting sacked less, and is creating more big plays. Overall, the production is statistically similar. Any argument that McNabb is playing worse than Campbell would have to be built around the fact that he has more help, like, Anthony Armstrong>Randle El. But I think the third option nullifies this fact.

3) The offensive coaching has declined. I think this is it. We went through 8 games with a crazy, gimmicky progression system that a veteran QB couldn't learn. We've improved the running scheme, but even in games where we do it well, we give up on it because we think we're a passing team. We probably are, but we waste a lot of plays stupidly, and we only trust McNabb as much as we have to. Which is more than we trust the running game. But not much. We refused to take Joey Galloway off the field no matter how poorly he played, decided Larry Johnson should make the team at the beginning, possibly costing the Texans game. We have no idea how to best use either Cooley or Davis. We have a Mike Sellers offensive package, for crying out loud. We won't give Keiland Williams, our best RB, the ball ever despite all the time Torain missed. We liked what we saw on film with Casey Rabach, somehow, and decided that he should be the center of this team (literally, and figuratively). They started Artis Hicks twice after pulling him for performance. They benched McNabb for Rex Grossman, and both Shanahan's think the world of Grossman.

It's been one mistake after another with these two. I'm not sure where the evidence is that either Shanahan can critically evaluate their OWN talent.

Cooley is on pace for 75 catches and 844 yards, both would be 2nd highest single season totals for him.

He's definitely been underutilized though.

[skinsfaninok]

Not benched yet, McNabb booed at basketball game | ProFootballTalk

[over the mountain]

i swear, i dont get the hate the vocal skins fans are having right now. i dont get the hate for mcnabb. isnt he about 6th in the league in passing yards? behind a shackled O line and undrafted rookie runningbacks? with guys like anthony armstrong as our no 2 receiver.

idk, i dont get it.