Zorn not using Wildcat next year

[44ever]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

This is a lousy excuse. Guys that make your 53 man roster as backups are expected to come in and get the job done. Injuries are a part of the game. I see every other team in the league utilizing their rookies on a consistent basis. We were successful in the first half of the season 'cause we ran the ball well and teams did not necessarily know what to expect from Zorn and his hybrid offense. As soon as teams started to see that we were a vanilla-run first offense, it became very easy for them to shut us down. Portis found himself constantly running into eight and nine man fronts. I don't want to hear how "injuries and lack of depth" were the reason for us not being fundamentally aggressive as an offense. Zorn always played for the first down and rarely took unexpected shots at the end zone- then he had the nerve when asked about it, to blame it on the O lines inability to pass protect.. Bullsh*t. As for the few times he went for it on 4th downs, a lot of coaches would have made the same calls. Going for it on 4th down is not that risky depending on distance, field position, score and time left. Fact is our O sputtered vastly because of play calling and not quality depth.

OK. What ever you say. Tell that to Samuels, Jansen, Geisinger,Thomas and Portis to name a few. Not getting into the Zorn thing again. You have your opinion I have mine. If you believe injuries and fatigue didnt play into our late season losses then your looking at things narrowly and putting the blame on Zorn completly. I dont make excuses for Zorn. I really doubt it took 8 games for the NFL to figure out our "Hybrid" vanilla-run first offense. And Zorns statement means we probably will be using the wildcat. IMO

[DirtyLandry]

Originally Posted by 44ever

OK. What ever you say. Tell that to Samuels, Jansen, Geisinger,Thomas and Portis to name a few. Not getting into the Zorn thing again. You have your opinion I have mine. If you believe injuries and fatigue didnt play into our late season losses then your looking at things narrowly and putting the blame on Zorn completly. I dont make excuses for Zorn. I really doubt it took 8 games for the NFL to figure out our "Hybrid" vanilla-run first offense. And Zorns statement means we probably will be using the wildcat. IMO

I take it straight from the players mouths. Portis said that halfway through the season the coaches started to tell him how to hit the hole, how to fall and thus their offensive production went way down. Portis was extremely vocal and upset about the fact that he was expected to be the workhorse and was constantly "running into a bunch of jerseys". The NFL has evolved. Archaic coaching does not work anymore. You can't just call 50-gut on every other first down and expect your guys to simply "execute" it. This might have worked 30 years ago, not now. While our O lines' age and injuries could be partly to blame, I still maintain that stubborn coaching and dated philosophies are the death of a lot of potential talent in the NFL. This has been a problem for a while now...coaches not willing to relinquish control or to adapt with the times.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

I take it straight from the players mouths. Portis said that halfway through the season the coaches started to tell him how to hit the hole, how to fall and thus their offensive production went way down. Portis was extremely vocal and upset about the fact that he was expected to be the workhorse and was constantly "running into a bunch of jerseys". The NFL has evolved. Archaic coaching does not work anymore. You can't just call 50-gut on every other first down and expect your guys to simply "execute" it. This might have worked 30 years ago, not now. While our O lines' age and injuries could be partly to blame, I still maintain that stubborn coaching and dated philosophies are the death of a lot of potential talent in the NFL. This has been a problem for a while now...coaches not willing to relinquish control or to adapt with the times.

What are you talking about? Portis wanted the ball
Clinton Portis and the Quest for 1,500 Yards - D.C. Sports Bog

[DirtyLandry]

Originally Posted by 44ever

What are you talking about? Portis wanted the ball
Clinton Portis and the Quest for 1,500 Yards - D.C. Sports Bog

Your little article is completely irrelevant. Clinton made these comments late in the season while he was 93 yards away from an important stat among running backs. You could not blame him for wanting this number after being the sacrificial lamb of this team for four years. While many players would deny it, stats and milestones are important to them. If you followed the team closely enough, you would know that Clinton has gone on record several times regarding his displeasure with being made to shoulder the load. Gibbs would let Clinton take himself in and out of the game at will, whereas Zorn stripped him of this right. Just look at the number of carries Clinton had vs. Betts. Clinton has made several comments as well (often said in jest) about losing good playing years because of being the workhorse and taking the pounding that he has. I can't think of another team in this league now that primarily utilizes a single running back like we do. No One in today's nfl should expect a RB to take 90% of the carries and Clinton would tell you the same.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

Your little article is completely irrelevant. Clinton made these comments late in the season while he was 93 yards away from an important stat among running backs. You could not blame him for wanting this number after being the sacrificial lamb of this team for four years. While many players would deny it, stats and milestones are important to them. If you followed the team closely enough, you would know that Clinton has gone on record several times regarding his displeasure with being made to shoulder the load. Gibbs would let Clinton take himself in and out of the game at will, whereas Zorn stripped him of this right. Just look at the number of carries Clinton had vs. Betts. Clinton has made several comments as well (often said in jest) about losing good playing years because of being the workhorse and taking the pounding that he has. I can't think of another team in this league now that primarily utilizes a single running back like we do. No One in today's nfl should expect a RB to take 90% of the carries and Clinton would tell you the same.

Hey Im all for a 2 Back system. If what your saying about Portis is true then the article reveals a double standard. It would imply he only wants to carry the ball often for his own selfish reasons and not for the teams success. I dont believe that to be the case. But if you believe that then that means you agree with Riggins. I don't.

Anyway this is getting way off subject. Getting back to where we started. You dont like Zorns ability and said he has shown none. I disagree.

[DirtyLandry]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Hey Im all for a 2 Back system. If what your saying about Portis is trus then the article reveals a double standard. It would imply he only wants to carry the ball often for his own selfish reasons and not for the teams success. I dont believe that to be the case. But if you believe that then that means you agree with Riggins. I don't.

Anyway this is getting way off subject. Getting back to where we started. You dont like Zorns ability and said he has shown none. I disagree.

We'll agree to disagree. On a side note, Zorn learned from the school of "Chuck Knox". Often referred to "Ground Chuck" for his conservative ground rushing attack.

I will give Zorn another year to prove he can change, I just have my doubts becuase he showed us nothing different in an entire season. For all of us, I hope I'm wrong.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

We'll agree to disagree. On a side note, Zorn learned from the school of "Chuck Knox". Often referred to "Ground Chuck" for his conservative ground rushing attack.

I will give Zorn another year to prove he can change, I just have my doubts becuase he showed us nothing different in an entire season. For all of us, I hope I'm wrong.

I dont blame you for your doubts brother. And I may be overly optomistic. I just think there are to many variables to pin the blame on any one specific player/coach. I hope your wrong too. But I may be wrong and for all of us I hope not. I think we agree to give Zorn a 2nd year and I think thats a logical way to see it. Hopefully this time next year we will both be happy with the Skins and have a lot more to agree on. see ya on the next thread.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

Your little article is completely irrelevant. Clinton made these comments late in the season while he was 93 yards away from an important stat among running backs. You could not blame him for wanting this number after being the sacrificial lamb of this team for four years. While many players would deny it, stats and milestones are important to them. If you followed the team closely enough, you would know that Clinton has gone on record several times regarding his displeasure with being made to shoulder the load. Gibbs would let Clinton take himself in and out of the game at will, whereas Zorn stripped him of this right. Just look at the number of carries Clinton had vs. Betts. Clinton has made several comments as well (often said in jest) about losing good playing years because of being the workhorse and taking the pounding that he has. I can't think of another team in this league now that primarily utilizes a single running back like we do. No One in today's nfl should expect a RB to take 90% of the carries and Clinton would tell you the same.

How about Portis STFU, stop whining, and make some damn plays. He's a solid back but his mouth on the JT show and me first attitude is wearing pretty thin. What #1 back pulls himself out of the game once his team gets in the Red Zone. Larry Brown didn't, Riggo didn't, Byner didn't, Stephen Davis didn't, LT doesn't, Peterson doesn't. Who gives a $hit about personal stats, I thought the point of NFL football was to win games. How about supporting your teammates and coaching staff rather than blasting them in the media in the midst of a tough stretch of games. Portis isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm certainly not going to him for an offensive game plan. Maybe if he was willing to take some of the coaching from Stump and Zorn he would've been closer to or hit his numbers.

Bad OL = poor offensive production. Did Zorn's playcalling go from great at 6-2 to crap in a couple of weeks?

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

How about Portis STFU, stop whining, and make some damn plays. He's a solid back but his mouth on the JT show and me first attitude is wearing pretty thin. What #1 back pulls himself out of the game once his team gets in the Red Zone. Larry Brown didn't, Riggo didn't, Byner didn't, Stephen Davis didn't, LT doesn't, Peterson doesn't. Who gives a $hit about personal stats, I thought the point of NFL football was to win games. How about supporting your teammates and coaching staff rather than blasting them in the media in the midst of a tough stretch of games. Portis isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm certainly not going to him for an offensive game plan. Maybe if he was willing to take some of the coaching from Stump and Zorn he would've been closer to or hit his numbers.

Bad OL = poor offensive production. Did Zorn's playcalling go from great at 6-2 to crap in a couple of weeks?

Damn Sammy! Portis is also the one who whines about being taken out of a game so they can run plays Betts has practiced all week because Portis didn't practice and apparently didn't know the plays. Baltimore.

[DirtyLandry]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

How about Portis STFU, stop whining, and make some damn plays. He's a solid back but his mouth on the JT show and me first attitude is wearing pretty thin. What #1 back pulls himself out of the game once his team gets in the Red Zone. Larry Brown didn't, Riggo didn't, Byner didn't, Stephen Davis didn't, LT doesn't, Peterson doesn't. Who gives a $hit about personal stats, I thought the point of NFL football was to win games. How about supporting your teammates and coaching staff rather than blasting them in the media in the midst of a tough stretch of games. Portis isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm certainly not going to him for an offensive game plan. Maybe if he was willing to take some of the coaching from Stump and Zorn he would've been closer to or hit his numbers.

Bad OL = poor offensive production. Did Zorn's playcalling go from great at 6-2 to crap in a couple of weeks?

All good points regarding Portis, however... I can somewhat empathize with the guy considering he's carried this offense since he came to Washington in 2004. Your talking about a guy who was off to one of the fastest, most prolific starts of a career for all time running backs. While I agree he shouldn't publicly blast his teammates or coaches, he should be frustrated as f*ck. He's gone from one conservative, run first offense (Gibbs), to another (Zorn). I don't think his only concern is his personal stats, but rather to be a more effective offense and not foolishly try to run into a stacked box.

As far as your comment about zorns playcalling going from great (at 6-2 to crap) is silly. It was the same O line at 6-2 as it was when it went 2-6. Portis' comments eluded to the fact that midway through the season, Stump Mitchells coaching was being overridden and all of the sudden the RB's were micro managed to the teams detriment. I would be pissed too. This guy lays it on the line every sunday, and if every Redskin gave the effort he did, they'd be a lot better off as a team. He throws blocks that other halfbacks would never dare to. You're obviously from the old school, so me making the argument of poor playcalling is gonna get us nowhere.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

All good points regarding Portis, however... I can somewhat empathize with the guy considering he's carried this offense since he came to Washington in 2004. Your talking about a guy who was off to one of the fastest, most prolific starts of a career for all time running backs. While I agree he shouldn't publicly blast his teammates or coaches, he should be frustrated as f*ck. He's gone from one conservative, run first offense (Gibbs), to another (Zorn). I don't think his only concern is his personal stats, but rather to be a more effective offense and not foolishly try to run into a stacked box.

While Gibbs' offense was conservative, this was no mystery. His philosphy put him in the HoF. 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls were won by "conservative" run first offenses. Zorn's offense isn't conservative by nature, but had to become that way when the OL was decimated by lingering injuries and age. Didn't hear Portis whining when the Skins were 6-2 and he was on top of the league in rushing. Same playcalls, no stacked boxes that I saw. Also, no running back carries a team without production from the OL.

As far as your comment about zorns playcalling going from great (at 6-2 to crap) is silly. It was the same O line at 6-2 as it was when it went 2-6.

Wrong. The OL broke down from injury/age right before our eyes in the Pitt / Balt games and never recovered.

This guy lays it on the line every sunday, and if every Redskin gave the effort he did, they'd be a lot better off as a team. He throws blocks that other halfbacks would never dare to.

90%+ of the SKins put forth the same effort, they just don't go on the JT show and elsewhere and tell you about it.

You're obviously from the old school, so me making the argument of poor playcalling is gonna get us nowhere.

I am old-school, but old-school doesn't mean run, run, pass. I have no problem with a spread offense, WCO or whatever puts points on the board. I understand those offensive philosophies. But the coaching tree Zorn comes from has had offensive success in the NFL and many teams have the same or a similar style. Your using Zorn's playcalling as the main excuse we stumbled at the end of the year. Your premise is incorrect.