Zorn not using Wildcat next year

[DirtyLandry]

If Zorn showed us anything last year it was his inability to be innovative, aggressive or willing to change up a game plan. I'm sure his offense is still going to be run, run, pass.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

If Zorn showed us anything last year it was his inability to be innovative, aggressive or willing to change up a game plan. I'm sure his offense is still going to be run, run, pass.

I think Zorn has the ability. You have to realize the weight of what he took on. Its obvious his game plan was working the first half of the season. When the team started to break down due to injury and fatigue (our 30 year old+ guys) He didnt have the depth on the team to draw from to make the adjustments. Also if I remeber correctly when the team was firing on all cylinders, Zorn would go for it on 4th down without fear. And it worked every time. He has shown he can be aggressive. He just had to be realistic and so should we. The Skins had no depth and a new system to implement. There cant be a "plan B" until there is an established "plan A". I think we will see a much improved team in 09. even if we dont aquire a big FA, we have guys that are becoming more experienced and will take it to the next level. And a coach capable of the same.

[DirtyLandry]

Originally Posted by 44ever

When the team started to break down due to injury and fatigue (our 30+ guys) He didnt have the depth on the team to draw from to make the adjustments.

This is a lousy excuse. Guys that make your 53 man roster as backups are expected to come in and get the job done. Injuries are a part of the game. I see every other team in the league utilizing their rookies on a consistent basis. We were successful in the first half of the season 'cause we ran the ball well and teams did not necessarily know what to expect from Zorn and his hybrid offense. As soon as teams started to see that we were a vanilla-run first offense, it became very easy for them to shut us down. Portis found himself constantly running into eight and nine man fronts. I don't want to hear how "injuries and lack of depth" were the reason for us not being fundamentally aggressive as an offense. Zorn always played for the first down and rarely took unexpected shots at the end zone- then he had the nerve when asked about it, to blame it on the O lines inability to pass protect. Bullsh*t. As for the few times he went for it on 4th downs, a lot of coaches would have made the same calls. Going for it on 4th down is not that risky depending on distance, field position, score and time left. Fact is our O sputtered vastly because of play calling and not quality depth.

[GridIron26]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

This is a lousy excuse. Guys that make your 53 man roster as backups are expected to come in and get the job done. Injuries are a part of the game. I see every other team in the league utilizing their rookies on a consistent basis. We were successful in the first half of the season 'cause we ran the ball well and teams did not necessarily know what to expect from Zorn and his hybrid offense. As soon as teams started to see that we were a vanilla-run first offense, it became very easy for them to shut us down. Portis found himself constantly running into eight and nine man fronts. I don't want to hear how "injuries and lack of depth" were the reason for us not being fundamentally aggressive as an offense. Zorn always played for the first down and rarely took unexpected shots at the end zone- then he had the nerve when asked about it, to blame it on the O lines inability to pass protect. Bullsh*t. As for the few times he went for it on 4th downs, a lot of coaches would have made the same calls. Going for it on 4th down is not that risky depending on distance, field position, score and time left. Fact is our O sputtered vastly because of play calling and not quality depth.

I don't know about that, as I agree with 44ever.. Although I think u might do have a point regarding run-first offense.. Teams figured out in middle of the season that we rely on Portis heavily to carry us.. AND that was when our O-line started to fall apart.. In order to have good O-line, the players need to play together lot to know each other's weakness, therefore they could help each other to prevent the exposure of those weaknesses.. Also you are right about our back-ups BUT we did not have capable back-ups to step up (we thought we did).. Which is why we are hearing buzzes about drafting one of OT or C studs.. Zorn and FO know that we need to do something about our O-line (starting and back-ups).. How in the world do you expect J. Campbell to be able to throw balls all day right when he usually have only 2-3 seconds to read defense and throw ball? That puts Zorn in binds as he could not be aggressive because he knows that Campbell would not have enough time..

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GridIron26

I don't know about that, as I agree with 44ever.. Although I think u might do have a point regarding run-first offense.. Teams figured out in middle of the season that we rely on Portis heavily to carry us.. AND that was when our O-line started to fall apart.. In order to have good O-line, the players need to play together lot to know each other's weakness, therefore they could help each other to prevent the exposure of those weaknesses.. Also you are right about our back-ups BUT we did not have capable back-ups to step up (we thought we did).. Which is why we are hearing buzzes about drafting one of OT or C studs.. Zorn and FO know that we need to do something about our O-line (starting and back-ups).. How in the world do you expect J. Campbell to be able to throw balls all day right when he usually have only 2-3 seconds to read defense and throw ball? That puts Zorn in binds as he could not be aggressive because he knows that Campbell would not have enough time..

Not to discount the validity of this, although it's become an all encompassing excuse (the reason the US is in a recession is because we have an old OL) but that really starts to speak to the lack of innovation in Zorn's playcalling.. When you have to compensate for OL deficiencies then you have to be more creative with more shotgun and moving the pocket/rolling out. He didn't do any of that later in the season. One of the questions/criticisms of Zorn when he was hired from those who knew him in Seattle were his stubbornness and ability to deal with adversity. He's confident in his abilities and ideas but had a tendency to be rather rigid in his beliefs. It'd be nice to see some adaptability to things that may make the offense more effective.

[GridIron26]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Not to discount the validity of this, although it's become an all encompassing excuse (the reason the US is in a recession is because we have an old OL) but that really starts to speak to the lack of innovation in Zorn's playcalling.. When you have to compensate for OL deficiencies then you have to be more creative with more shotgun and moving the pocket/rolling out. He didn't do any of that later in the season. One of the questions/criticisms of Zorn when he was hired from those who knew him in Seattle were his stubbornness and ability to deal with adversity. He's confident in his abilities and ideas but had a tendency to be rather rigid in his beliefs. It'd be nice to see some adaptability to things that may make the offense more effective.

You have a good point, I was thinking about shotgun part myself as well a while ago.. But all I'm trying to say that it's not all Zorn's fault, like DirtyLandry appears to be claiming so.. O-line factor does play in this role..

[Trample the Elderly]

I don't know about this wildcat formation stuff? With Randal El in there and a few other gadget guys I don't know why we don't have more wildcat stuff? Maybe we'll see some more things later. We do use them every once in awhile.
It's probably too soon to have a lot of gadgets when we don't have the WCO down pact right now. My only hope is that we can solidify the WCO and have a gadget here and there before Z gets the boot. It just seems like a waste of time and money to restructure the offense every other year.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Not to discount the validity of this, although it's become an all encompassing excuse (the reason the US is in a recession is because we have an old OL) but that really starts to speak to the lack of innovation in Zorn's playcalling.. When you have to compensate for OL deficiencies then you have to be more creative with more shotgun and moving the pocket/rolling out. He didn't do any of that later in the season. One of the questions/criticisms of Zorn when he was hired from those who knew him in Seattle were his stubbornness and ability to deal with adversity. He's confident in his abilities and ideas but had a tendency to be rather rigid in his beliefs. It'd be nice to see some adaptability to things that may make the offense more effective.

True Paintrain but the debate is still out if that has to do more with Zorns playcall, Campbells ability or Zorns confidence in Campbell.

I also expect to see more creativity in the offensive scheme and we should in 09'. We still have to keep in mind that Zorn played his rookie year last year.

Point is we went 6-2 with Zorn and a healthy team. We went 8-8 with Zorn and a unhealthy team and not much depth. I certainly agree Zorn needs to step up his playcall and adaptability, and of course some of the blame is his. But not all of it. As was stated earlier.

But its way to early to say that Zorn lacks the ability. IMO

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 44ever

True Paintrain but the debate is still out if that has to do more with Zorns playcall, Campbells ability or Zorns confidence in Campbell.

I also expect to see more creativity in the offensive scheme and we should in 09'. We still have to keep in mind that Zorn played his rookie year last year.

Point is we went 6-2 with Zorn and a healthy team. We went 8-8 with Zorn and a unhealthy team and not much depth. I certainly agree Zorn needs to step up his playcall and adaptability, and of course some of the blame is his. But not all of it. As was stated earlier.

But its way to early to say that Zorn lacks the ability. IMO

Agreed, we don't know all the factors and limitations at play. It is just kind of frustrating to see other teams facing some of the same challenges (new offense, new coaches, shaky OL) doing the necessary things to get the ball into the end zone and we stubbornly stuck to what wasn't really working anymore.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

This is a lousy excuse. Guys that make your 53 man roster as backups are expected to come in and get the job done. Injuries are a part of the game. I see every other team in the league utilizing their rookies on a consistent basis. We were successful in the first half of the season 'cause we ran the ball well and teams did not necessarily know what to expect from Zorn and his hybrid offense. As soon as teams started to see that we were a vanilla-run first offense, it became very easy for them to shut us down. Portis found himself constantly running into eight and nine man fronts. I don't want to hear how "injuries and lack of depth" were the reason for us not being fundamentally aggressive as an offense. Zorn always played for the first down and rarely took unexpected shots at the end zone- then he had the nerve when asked about it, to blame it on the O lines inability to pass protect.. Bullsh*t. As for the few times he went for it on 4th downs, a lot of coaches would have made the same calls. Going for it on 4th down is not that risky depending on distance, field position, score and time left. Fact is our O sputtered vastly because of play calling and not quality depth.

OK. What ever you say. Tell that to Samuels, Jansen, Geisinger,Thomas and Portis to name a few. Not getting into the Zorn thing again. You have your opinion I have mine. If you believe injuries and fatigue didnt play into our late season losses then your looking at things narrowly and putting the blame on Zorn completly. I dont make excuses for Zorn. I really doubt it took 8 games for the NFL to figure out our "Hybrid" vanilla-run first offense. And Zorns statement means we probably will be using the wildcat. IMO

[DirtyLandry]

Originally Posted by 44ever

OK. What ever you say. Tell that to Samuels, Jansen, Geisinger,Thomas and Portis to name a few. Not getting into the Zorn thing again. You have your opinion I have mine. If you believe injuries and fatigue didnt play into our late season losses then your looking at things narrowly and putting the blame on Zorn completly. I dont make excuses for Zorn. I really doubt it took 8 games for the NFL to figure out our "Hybrid" vanilla-run first offense. And Zorns statement means we probably will be using the wildcat. IMO

I take it straight from the players mouths. Portis said that halfway through the season the coaches started to tell him how to hit the hole, how to fall and thus their offensive production went way down. Portis was extremely vocal and upset about the fact that he was expected to be the workhorse and was constantly "running into a bunch of jerseys". The NFL has evolved. Archaic coaching does not work anymore. You can't just call 50-gut on every other first down and expect your guys to simply "execute" it. This might have worked 30 years ago, not now. While our O lines' age and injuries could be partly to blame, I still maintain that stubborn coaching and dated philosophies are the death of a lot of potential talent in the NFL. This has been a problem for a while now...coaches not willing to relinquish control or to adapt with the times.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

I take it straight from the players mouths. Portis said that halfway through the season the coaches started to tell him how to hit the hole, how to fall and thus their offensive production went way down. Portis was extremely vocal and upset about the fact that he was expected to be the workhorse and was constantly "running into a bunch of jerseys". The NFL has evolved. Archaic coaching does not work anymore. You can't just call 50-gut on every other first down and expect your guys to simply "execute" it. This might have worked 30 years ago, not now. While our O lines' age and injuries could be partly to blame, I still maintain that stubborn coaching and dated philosophies are the death of a lot of potential talent in the NFL. This has been a problem for a while now...coaches not willing to relinquish control or to adapt with the times.

What are you talking about? Portis wanted the ball
Clinton Portis and the Quest for 1,500 Yards - D.C. Sports Bog

[DirtyLandry]

Originally Posted by 44ever

What are you talking about? Portis wanted the ball
Clinton Portis and the Quest for 1,500 Yards - D.C. Sports Bog

Your little article is completely irrelevant. Clinton made these comments late in the season while he was 93 yards away from an important stat among running backs. You could not blame him for wanting this number after being the sacrificial lamb of this team for four years. While many players would deny it, stats and milestones are important to them. If you followed the team closely enough, you would know that Clinton has gone on record several times regarding his displeasure with being made to shoulder the load. Gibbs would let Clinton take himself in and out of the game at will, whereas Zorn stripped him of this right. Just look at the number of carries Clinton had vs. Betts. Clinton has made several comments as well (often said in jest) about losing good playing years because of being the workhorse and taking the pounding that he has. I can't think of another team in this league now that primarily utilizes a single running back like we do. No One in today's nfl should expect a RB to take 90% of the carries and Clinton would tell you the same.

[REDSKIN1]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

This is a lousy excuse. Guys that make your 53 man roster as backups are expected to come in and get the job done. Injuries are a part of the game. I see every other team in the league utilizing their rookies on a consistent basis. We were successful in the first half of the season 'cause we ran the ball well and teams did not necessarily know what to expect from Zorn and his hybrid offense. As soon as teams started to see that we were a vanilla-run first offense, it became very easy for them to shut us down. Portis found himself constantly running into eight and nine man fronts. I don't want to hear how "injuries and lack of depth" were the reason for us not being fundamentally aggressive as an offense. Zorn always played for the first down and rarely took unexpected shots at the end zone- then he had the nerve when asked about it, to blame it on the O lines inability to pass protect. Bullsh*t. As for the few times he went for it on 4th downs, a lot of coaches would have made the same calls. Going for it on 4th down is not that risky depending on distance, field position, score and time left. Fact is our O sputtered vastly because of play calling and not quality depth.

Amen. Brother........