Jay Gruden you are our only hope

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Its always completely assumed that a QB can be developed, just like you are assuming that given the right parts around him, Griffin would bust. Peyton Manning had a ton of doubters coming out of college with huge amounts of people saying Ryan Leaf would be better, but there were some that assumed he could be developed. It was also completely assumed that Ryan Leaf could be developed.



The fact is, unless its done properly, you will never know. Is it possible that Griffin was never going to be a good QB? Sure its possible. Something being possible doesnt mean much when assuming since the exact opposite could also be possible. If we are going to deal in possibilities and assumptions, then we should resign sexy rexy. After all, he was a starter in the SB, so him making the SB as a starter... is possible.



Btw... The record of the packers was 6-10 in Rodgers' first year. Since most dont think any other position matters and win/loss record completely falls on the QB, Rodgers had a bad first year starting (4th year in the league) by the standards that keep being presented to me.

Come on man....they forgot about Favre almost overnite. Also im not assuming Griff wont succeed with the rite pieces around him. Im just calling it like I see it rite now as it stands. Rite now he isnt playing well. I have no idea if the organization or the man can fix that. My gut says no, but we will see.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Come on man....they forgot about Favre almost overnite. Also im not assuming Griff wont succeed with the rite pieces around him. Im just calling it like I see it rite now as it stands. Rite now he isnt playing well. I have no idea if the organization or the man can fix that. My gut says no, but we will see.

Lol... No...

That first year, Packers fan were booing Rodgers and calling for Favre to be brought back. The Packers fans werent happy about 6-10 at all. They started to give Rodgers a chance about half way through his second starting season. They didnt forget about Favre until the SB.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Lol... No...



That first year, Packers fan were booing Rodgers and calling for Favre to be brought back. The Packers fans werent happy about 6-10 at all. They started to give Rodgers a chance about half way through his second starting season. They didnt forget about Favre until the SB.

Summer before his first starting season I remember he was caught in the crossfire of favre leaving. That first year - he LIT IT UP. They might have been booing the team but im not so sure it was directed at Rodgers. Either way my point was (stupid fans or not) he was an immediate success once he took over. Again - over 4,000 yards and 28 td's.

[SFREDSKIN]

Here's an excellent RGIII assessment from a Baylor fan:

Like I have said before. He is a spread quarterback playing in a west coast offense. It does not fit him. He needs to go to a place that runs the true spread. Not the read option, but a run and shoot style spread. That is the bases of our offense here at Baylor. He would understand those concepts and elements better. There is too much of a thought process that goes on with the west coast especially the one hat both Gruden's run. Not only do you have to read the defense, but you have to regurgitate ridiculously long plays that tells everyone what to do; you have to time your drop back with the routes, receivers have to run predetermined routes, and you have about 5 reads. He has to do all this on top of having an offensive line not built to pass protect. He does have issues holding the ball to long. He needs to just let a rip; but honestly he wasn't ready to carry a bad organization. People put to much on him and in fairness he put way to much on himself. I think he was feeling himself just a little, but not as much as it was portrayed; after winning the Heisman and then rookie of the year. He probably thought that he would be able to handle saving a dismal organization. But many great qbs don't have to. As bad as the Colts were people forget the year before they tanked that they made it to the second round of the playoffs. Indy top to bottom was a solid organization when Andrew went there. To make it even more easier on him, the colts brought in his offensive coordinator from Sanford, so he is practically 7 years into the offense that he is directing. He is comfortable because he knows it in and out. That was not the case for Rob. And many would say well the Shanahan's installed the read option for Robert to get him comfortable so that's a wash. No they didn't. Many don't understand that Rob didn't run a read option offense in college. Art Briles offense is not a read option offense. It is a run and shoot hybrid offense with receivers running option routes versus the way the defense is lined up. Quarterback and receivers on the fly determine where to go with the ball and what route to run based on coverage. And there for the pass opens up the run. If you look at stats except for his freshman year Rob didn't run the ball for more than 650 in a season. That was on par with Luck at Stanford. The Shanahan's used Nevada's offensive formation (read option) Rob's rookie year. I know this is long but I am passionate about my bears and seeing them do well in all their endeavors. He needs a change of scenery particularly in a place that has a small media market with a solid organization top to bottom from players, coaches, front office, and owner. He needs a place that runs a spread offense that allows him to make easier pre snap adjustments without heavy progressions and verbiage and will allow him to get in a rythym becaus he is a rythym thrower. And preferably a place where he can sit behind a veteran qb for a couple of years, rest his body, and learn. A place where he doesn't have to be the guy. Denver is a small market city that meet these criterias. New England as well. In fact they have a rookie qb behind Tom Brady that ran our offense for Coach Babers at Eastern Illinois. That's how closely aligned the Patriots offense is with ours. It's not as eccentric and elaborate as ours (there is only one Coach Briles and one Baylor offense) but it is a run and shoot offense so it embodies the same base principals.
Last edited by CoachHBU2008; 11-16-14 at 04:14 PM.

[Kindoy]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Here's an excellent RGIII assessment from a Baylor fan:

Like I have said before. He is a spread quarterback playing in a west coast offense. It does not fit him. He needs to go to a place that runs the true spread. Not the read option, but a run and shoot style spread. That is the bases of our offense here at Baylor. He would understand those concepts and elements better. There is too much of a thought process that goes on with the west coast especially the one hat both Gruden's run. Not only do you have to read the defense, but you have to regurgitate ridiculously long plays that tells everyone what to do; you have to time your drop back with the routes, receivers have to run predetermined routes, and you have about 5 reads. He has to do all this on top of having an offensive line not built to pass protect. He does have issues holding the ball to long. He needs to just let a rip; but honestly he wasn't ready to carry a bad organization. People put to much on him and in fairness he put way to much on himself. I think he was feeling himself just a little, but not as much as it was portrayed; after winning the Heisman and then rookie of the year. He probably thought that he would be able to handle saving a dismal organization. But many great qbs don't have to. As bad as the Colts were people forget the year before they tanked that they made it to the second round of the playoffs. Indy top to bottom was a solid organization when Andrew went there. To make it even more easier on him, the colts brought in his offensive coordinator from Sanford, so he is practically 7 years into the offense that he is directing. He is comfortable because he knows it in and out. That was not the case for Rob. And many would say well the Shanahan's installed the read option for Robert to get him comfortable so that's a wash. No they didn't. Many don't understand that Rob didn't run a read option offense in college. Art Briles offense is not a read option offense. It is a run and shoot hybrid offense with receivers running option routes versus the way the defense is lined up. Quarterback and receivers on the fly determine where to go with the ball and what route to run based on coverage. And there for the pass opens up the run. If you look at stats except for his freshman year Rob didn't run the ball for more than 650 in a season. That was on par with Luck at Stanford. The Shanahan's used Nevada's offensive formation (read option) Rob's rookie year. I know this is long but I am passionate about my bears and seeing them do well in all their endeavors. He needs a change of scenery particularly in a place that has a small media market with a solid organization top to bottom from players, coaches, front office, and owner. He needs a place that runs a spread offense that allows him to make easier pre snap adjustments without heavy progressions and verbiage and will allow him to get in a rythym becaus he is a rythym thrower. And preferably a place where he can sit behind a veteran qb for a couple of years, rest his body, and learn. A place where he doesn't have to be the guy. Denver is a small market city that meet these criterias. New England as well. In fact they have a rookie qb behind Tom Brady that ran our offense for Coach Babers at Eastern Illinois. That's how closely aligned the Patriots offense is with ours. It's not as eccentric and elaborate as ours (there is only one Coach Briles and one Baylor offense) but it is a run and shoot offense so it embodies the same base principals.
Last edited by CoachHBU2008; 11-16-14 at 04:14 PM.

Awesome post, thanks.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Here's an excellent RGIII assessment from a Baylor fan:

Like I have said before. He is a spread quarterback playing in a west coast offense. It does not fit him. He needs to go to a place that runs the true spread. Not the read option, but a run and shoot style spread. That is the bases of our offense here at Baylor. He would understand those concepts and elements better. There is too much of a thought process that goes on with the west coast especially the one hat both Gruden's run. Not only do you have to read the defense, but you have to regurgitate ridiculously long plays that tells everyone what to do; you have to time your drop back with the routes, receivers have to run predetermined routes, and you have about 5 reads. He has to do all this on top of having an offensive line not built to pass protect. He does have issues holding the ball to long. He needs to just let a rip; but honestly he wasn't ready to carry a bad organization. People put to much on him and in fairness he put way to much on himself. I think he was feeling himself just a little, but not as much as it was portrayed; after winning the Heisman and then rookie of the year. He probably thought that he would be able to handle saving a dismal organization. But many great qbs don't have to. As bad as the Colts were people forget the year before they tanked that they made it to the second round of the playoffs. Indy top to bottom was a solid organization when Andrew went there. To make it even more easier on him, the colts brought in his offensive coordinator from Sanford, so he is practically 7 years into the offense that he is directing. He is comfortable because he knows it in and out. That was not the case for Rob. And many would say well the Shanahan's installed the read option for Robert to get him comfortable so that's a wash. No they didn't. Many don't understand that Rob didn't run a read option offense in college. Art Briles offense is not a read option offense. It is a run and shoot hybrid offense with receivers running option routes versus the way the defense is lined up. Quarterback and receivers on the fly determine where to go with the ball and what route to run based on coverage. And there for the pass opens up the run. If you look at stats except for his freshman year Rob didn't run the ball for more than 650 in a season. That was on par with Luck at Stanford. The Shanahan's used Nevada's offensive formation (read option) Rob's rookie year. I know this is long but I am passionate about my bears and seeing them do well in all their endeavors. He needs a change of scenery particularly in a place that has a small media market with a solid organization top to bottom from players, coaches, front office, and owner. He needs a place that runs a spread offense that allows him to make easier pre snap adjustments without heavy progressions and verbiage and will allow him to get in a rythym becaus he is a rythym thrower. And preferably a place where he can sit behind a veteran qb for a couple of years, rest his body, and learn. A place where he doesn't have to be the guy. Denver is a small market city that meet these criterias. New England as well. In fact they have a rookie qb behind Tom Brady that ran our offense for Coach Babers at Eastern Illinois. That's how closely aligned the Patriots offense is with ours. It's not as eccentric and elaborate as ours (there is only one Coach Briles and one Baylor offense) but it is a run and shoot offense so it embodies the same base principals.
Last edited by CoachHBU2008; 11-16-14 at 04:14 PM.

This post is so so poor, I think its the worse thing Ive ever seen on the board. So RG3 needs to go to a run and shoot team like Denver or New England? jesus christ what an idiot. He sounds like a college football fan.

The problem we are facing is that atheleticism will never hid poor fundemental passing concepts for a QB. Its been proven time and time again.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

This post is so so poor, I think its the worse thing Ive ever seen on the board. So RG3 needs to go to a run and shoot team like Denver or New England? jesus christ what an idiot. He sounds like a college football fan.

The problem we are facing is that atheleticism will never hid poor fundemental passing concepts for a QB. Its been proven time and time again.

What I was getting at was that Shanahan had him playing the spread cause he was familiar with it and had a hard time learning the WCO, which he still does, as well as the pocket presence.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

What I was getting at was that Shanahan had him playing the spread cause he was familiar with it and had a hard time learning the WCO, which he still does, as well as the pocket presence.

Well he needs to recognize defenses too and where you go with the ball. These are the differences in a garbage Baylor, texas am and tcu schemes vs a pro style Stanford team. You want a QB who knows the basics coming out. The thing with RG3 is seems like a smart, hard worker, and high character guy who could be coached to learn how to become a pocket passer.

But he seems to be more worried about social media and not taking the responsibility for the teams poor play. I dont ever want to see RG3 do that again at a press conference when he deflects responsibilty. Its year 3, no more of that shit.

You see Peyton at the podium after the loss against St. Louis? Thats why that dude wins and has the support of every team he's ever been on. Peyton put that loss all on him. RG3 needs to man the fuck up and do the same.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Well he needs to recognize defenses too and where you go with the ball. These are the differences in a garbage Baylor, texas am and tcu schemes vs a pro style Stanford team. You want a QB who knows the basics coming out. The thing with RG3 is seems like a smart, hard worker, and high character guy who could be coached to learn how to become a pocket passer.



But he seems to be more worried about social media and not taking the responsibility for the teams poor play. I dont ever want to see RG3 do that again at a press conference when he deflects responsibilty. Its year 3, no more of that shit.



You see Peyton at the podium after the loss against St. Louis? Thats why that dude wins and has the support of every team he's ever been on. Peyton put that loss all on him. RG3 needs to man the fuck up and do the same.

Wish it was that easy. I agree with everything you say except, and its a big except, i do not think Griff can be that QB. He is not even close to being that qb. Not even close.