Jay Gruden you are our only hope

[Hijinx]

Originally Posted by punch it in

You are COMPLETELY ASSUMING that Griff is able to be developed. That he has what it takes to be developed. Brady, Rodgers, All these great qb's have what it takes to be great for years with consistency. Do you atleast acknowledge the fact that Griff might not?
Edit: Rodgers passed for over 4,000 yards and threw 28 td's with 13 int's his first year starting.

Brady's 1st year stating he went to the Pro Bowl and lead the Pats to a SuperBowl win.

I mean,I am sure RG3 is right there at that level, too.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Hijinx

Brady's 1st year stating he went to the Pro Bowl and lead the Pats to a SuperBowl win.

I mean,I am sure RG3 is right there at that level, too.

Given that Brady is one of the greatest of all time, I could say that Brees sucks compared to Brady, and its not a far fetched statement. Saying one QB sucks when he is compared to Brady because he is lacking something is down right stupid.

If any of you actually thought at any time that RG3 was the next Brady, you are clearly lacking when it comes to football. I have defended RG3 plenty and have never once in my life thought he would be the next Tom Brady. I dont even know why that comparison is being made.

For as shitty as you guys call RG3, had we had Seattles defense and RG3 played absolutely no different, you would be calling him the franchise savior. Since 20 points with that defense wins 80-90% of the time. With our defense, 20 points loses more often than not. So no different play and a dominant defense completely changes almost everyones opinion of him. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

Btw, That NE team was light years ahead of ours in terms of talent across the board. Remember Belicheks early defenses. They were down right nasty. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

[Hijinx]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Given that Brady is one of the greatest of all time, I could say that Brees sucks compared to Brady, and its not a far fetched statement. Saying one QB sucks when he is compared to Brady because he is lacking something is down right stupid.

If any of you actually thought at any time that RG3 was the next Brady, you are clearly lacking when it comes to football. I have defended RG3 plenty and have never once in my life thought he would be the next Tom Brady. I dont even know why that comparison is being made.

For as shitty as you guys call RG3, had we had Seattles defense and RG3 played absolutely no different, you would be calling him the franchise savior. Since 20 points with that defense wins 80-90% of the time. With our defense, 20 points loses more often than not. So no different play and a dominant defense completely changes almost everyones opinion of him. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

Btw, That NE team was light years ahead of ours in terms of talent across the board. Remember Belicheks early defenses. They were down right nasty. I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB.

You are talking about defense. The Skins D could have only given up 10 points and still lost because the offence only scored 7. They got 0 points in the 2nd half, is that on the D?? And that TD was a 5 yard pass, back to the LoS, that Hulu ran for 25 additional yards. The Texan game was even worse, 6 points. That loss on the D, too?

The only thing he can hit is 15 yards and less. He stares down a WR so the safety covers him, then goes right to the checkdown. Is that a Defensive problem? You think that is a coaching problem? You think the coaches have not addressed this?

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Hijinx

You are talking about defense. The Skins D could have only given up 10 points and still lost because the offence only scored 7. They got 0 points in the 2nd half, is that on the D?? And that TD was a 5 yard pass, back to the LoS, that Hulu ran for 25 additional yards. The Texan game was even worse, 6 points. That loss on the D, too?

The only thing he can hit is 15 yards and less. He stares down a WR so the safety covers him, then goes right to the checkdown. Is that a Defensive problem? You think that is a coaching problem? You think the coaches have not addressed this?

You are talking about 2 games. How many times have we scored, I dont know, 26 points only to give up two 4th quarter TD's by a rookie QB and lose by 3. Yeah that just happened against Minny. And of course, its all RG3's fault because defense doesnt matter. Of course he did hit some things over 15 yards in that game. The Houston game JJ Watt was in the backfield as much as our RB's were. Quick passes became the plan pretty early on in that game. You keep claiming that you are watching but seem to miss some pretty basic stuff.

[Hijinx]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

You are talking about 2 games. How many times have we scored, I dont know, 26 points only to give up two 4th quarter TD's by a rookie QB and lose by 3. Yeah that just happened against Minny. And of course, its all RG3's fault because defense doesnt matter. Of course he did hit some things over 15 yards in that game. The Houston game JJ Watt was in the backfield as much as our RB's were. Quick passes became the plan pretty early on in that game. You keep claiming that you are watching but seem to miss some pretty basic stuff.

You are talking about 1 game. Lets take RG3's last 16 not counting the Jax game he get hurt 5 mins in. In 16 games 18 TDs, 15 INT, and 7 fumbles, 53 sacks taken. Twenty two turnovers just by himself in 16 games, thats elite. Now before you even start making excuses about the O-line and those sacks, a ton of them are on him. He holds the ball WAY, WAY, WAY, too long, everyone says so. Now the O-line is leaky for sure, but it is no way, sooo much worse than every other O-line that he should be sacked this many times. In fact this season RG3 has been sacked 13% of his pass attempts, Colt 10%, and Kirk only 3.8%. Last year RG3 sacked on 7.7% of attempts, Kirk 3.1.

You want to use the D as an excuse? Know who had the 9th most punts in 2013? Rocca. Know why so many? Because RG3 can not do crap on 3rd down, except get sacked. Want to know why he wasn't 1st in number of punts? Because RG3's 22 turnovers, but I guess that is on the D. Crappy Offensive play puts pressure on the D. Not the other way around.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #28302 , it is the coaching staff. Once he gets the right coaches who knows how to coach he will be great. Go check how well the Browns are doing with Kyle Shanahan, without a decent WR, and Hoyer as their QB.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #63840 wellll hes hurt as soon as he gets healthy, we will see this great elite QB. Ya but he is brittle a hell, he missed time in 2 out of 4 college seasons and 3 out of 3 NFL seasons. So keep hoping that he will ever last a whole season.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #34405: his teammates don't play hard enough. He tried to use that one yesterday when he threw his teammates under the bus. Best throw of the day, BTW.

Or you use RG3 excuse #19083 : "The Haters" whatever the Hell that is

At some point you have to stop making excuses and either produce or get lost.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Hijinx

You are talking about 1 game. Lets take RG3's last 16 not counting the Jax game he get hurt 5 mins in. In 16 games 18 TDs, 15 INT, and 7 fumbles, 53 sacks taken. Twenty two turnovers just by himself in 16 games, thats elite. Now before you even start making excuses about the O-line and those sacks, a ton of them are on him. He holds the ball WAY, WAY, WAY, too long, everyone says so. Now the O-line is leaky for sure, but it is no way, sooo much worse than every other O-line that he should be sacked this many times. In fact this season RG3 has been sacked 13% of his pass attempts, Colt 10%, and Kirk only 3.8%. Last year RG3 sacked on 7.7% of attempts, Kirk 3.1.

You want to use the D as an excuse? Know who had the 9th most punts in 2013? Rocca. Know why so many? Because RG3 can not do crap on 3rd down, except get sacked. Want to know why he wasn't 1st in number of punts? Because RG3's 22 turnovers, but I guess that is on the D. Crappy Offensive play puts pressure on the D. Not the other way around.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #28302 , it is the coaching staff. Once he gets the right coaches who knows how to coach he will be great. Go check how well the Browns are doing with Kyle Shanahan, without a decent WR, and Hoyer as their QB.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #63840 wellll hes hurt as soon as he gets healthy, we will see this great elite QB. Ya but he is brittle a hell, he missed time in 2 out of 4 college seasons and 3 out of 3 NFL seasons. So keep hoping that he will ever last a whole season.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #34405: his teammates don't play hard enough. He tried to use that one yesterday when he threw his teammates under the bus. Best throw of the day, BTW.

Or you use RG3 excuse #19083 : "The Haters" whatever the Hell that is

At some point you have to stop making excuses and either produce or get lost.

You have still not understood most of my points. This all started about a conversation about developing QB's. As I told Punch, you want to draft QB after QB and watch them be ruined. I want to fix the developing problem then worry about the QB. I have said before that if it isnt Griffin, so be it.

But your solution is to put in someone who did just as bad if not worse. Its a stupid solution and I will call it out every time. Fix the problem first, then get the QB. Stop inserting QB x, watch him fail, insert QB y, watch him fail, insert QB z, watch him fail... then blame Snyder. Thats not a solution except to several people on this board.

If its not Griffin, so be it. But drafting and ruining is a horrible strategy. I dont know why so many people think it will eventually work after the 5 thousandth time. It wont work the way its being done. As Einstein said, Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again thinking you will get different results.

Btw, Im not one who has blamed the coaching staff. I got chewed out for saying to give Shanny his five years because I was sick of the turnover. But hey, the guy you hated is now having success somewhere else so blame me for that as well. Makes sense. I also dont recall calling anyone a hater. Called plenty of people idiots, but hater, not me.

Btw... I know... I know... Defense doesnt matter, only the QB. Yes I will talk about the defense, because when you have to score 40 to win, then the QB tends to do stupid shit trying to make up those points. Yes I will talk about the Oline, since they are a major problem in why we can never get a QB going.

Look at Kirk when he first came in. He was tearing it up early, then started taking hits. After that, it was lock and throw immediately, regardless of what team he threw to. Thats what you want? Really? Hey at least his sack numbers per pass play are down even if he locks onto the safety and throws it right at him for an int. It does not take EVERY single rush to get there for it to have an effect. There were plenty of times with a whole lot of QB's that take hits and start doing these rookie things. It really only takes so many times of having your center and guards pushed back into your face before you look to move outside the pocket instead of climb into it. Its a development problem and it needs to be fixed. QB's cant develop that way, they never do.

This team might as well have zero backups except the QB position and sign 15 of them. Then we can switch QB's to your hearts content while nothing still works. But you still have Snyder to blame so who cares if the problem is ever fixed.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Hijinx

In 16 games 18 TDs, 15 INT, and 7 fumbles, 53 sacks taken. Twenty two turnovers just by himself in 16 games, thats elite.

Now before you even start making excuses about the O-line and those sacks, a ton of them are on him. He holds the ball WAY, WAY, WAY, too long, everyone says so.

RG3 can not do crap on 3rd down, except get sacked.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #28302 , it is the coaching staff. Once he gets the right coaches who knows how to coach he will be great. Go check how well the Browns are doing with Kyle Shanahan, without a decent WR, and Hoyer as their QB.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #63840 wellll hes hurt as soon as he gets healthy, we will see this great elite QB. Ya but he is brittle a hell, he missed time in 2 out of 4 college seasons and 3 out of 3 NFL seasons. So keep hoping that he will ever last a whole season.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #34405: his teammates don't play hard enough. He tried to use that one yesterday when he threw his teammates under the bus. Best throw of the day, BTW.

Or you use RG3 excuse #19083 : "The Haters" whatever the Hell that is

At some point you have to stop making excuses and either produce or get lost.

You made a number of very good points. I have supported Robert but I can't deny my ongoing concerns about everything you posted. Unfortunately, there is even more about his game to be concerned about. Yet, he has talent. It feels like Catch 22 to me.

[VTSkins1961]

Tell that to the O-LINE

Originally Posted by Hijinx

You are talking about 1 game. Lets take RG3's last 16 not counting the Jax game he get hurt 5 mins in. In 16 games 18 TDs, 15 INT, and 7 fumbles, 53 sacks taken. Twenty two turnovers just by himself in 16 games, thats elite. Now before you even start making excuses about the O-line and those sacks, a ton of them are on him. He holds the ball WAY, WAY, WAY, too long, everyone says so. Now the O-line is leaky for sure, but it is no way, sooo much worse than every other O-line that he should be sacked this many times. In fact this season RG3 has been sacked 13% of his pass attempts, Colt 10%, and Kirk only 3.8%. Last year RG3 sacked on 7.7% of attempts, Kirk 3.1.

You want to use the D as an excuse? Know who had the 9th most punts in 2013? Rocca. Know why so many? Because RG3 can not do crap on 3rd down, except get sacked. Want to know why he wasn't 1st in number of punts? Because RG3's 22 turnovers, but I guess that is on the D. Crappy Offensive play puts pressure on the D. Not the other way around.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #28302 , it is the coaching staff. Once he gets the right coaches who knows how to coach he will be great. Go check how well the Browns are doing with Kyle Shanahan, without a decent WR, and Hoyer as their QB.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #63840 wellll hes hurt as soon as he gets healthy, we will see this great elite QB. Ya but he is brittle a hell, he missed time in 2 out of 4 college seasons and 3 out of 3 NFL seasons. So keep hoping that he will ever last a whole season.

Or you can use RG3 excuse #34405: his teammates don't play hard enough. He tried to use that one yesterday when he threw his teammates under the bus. Best throw of the day, BTW.

Or you use RG3 excuse #19083 : "The Haters" whatever the Hell that is

At some point you have to stop making excuses and either produce or get lost.