Questions that might effect the DRAFT

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I also would like to ignore a lineman with our first overall pick. I know our lines are in shambles, but unless you're taking an LT -- the 13th pick is too early for an offensive lineman, and defensive guys scare the hell out of me. I've heard people on this board screaming for this DE or that DE (myself included) and when you look back -- that player did jack squat in the NFL. DEs have one of the highest bust rates in the NFL.

I must say, a stud LB would be a nice choice there. McIntosh is iffy, Washington is nearly done, and Fletch has been an absolute monster -- but he doesn't have a ton of time left.

Ideally, in my perfect world, we trade down and get a solid offensive lineman. Someone like say...Duke Robinson. And a second round pick

I agree though that 13 is too high for any linemen really, best as I can tell from the talent in the upper echelons of the draft. That spot though is prime for a stud LB. Problem is though it probably needs to be Brian Cushing and 13 may even be too high for him. Mauluaga and Luarianitis (sp? of both) are probably better. But both are inside linebackers and it's going to be hard to convince the fans that it made sense to spend the first pick on a player who is going to (most likely) sit on the bench behind Fletcher for a year or two.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Ideally, in my perfect world, we trade down and get a solid offensive lineman. Someone like say...Duke Robinson. And a second round pick

Yeah, if we could trade down to a later pick and pick up a second round pick that would be sweet.

If we traded down we could probably still find a decent OT or maybe take the best player available like Knowshon Moreno or Brian Orakpo (according to McShay's crazy mock he'll still be available)

I'm not sure our lack of pass rush is just a personel issue but our DE are getting old and c'mon Orakpo is a monster!

But in the 2nd round i would look for a Center.

Here are my reasons
- i think we have less need at Guard with Kendall and Rinehart (i'm assuming Kendall stays and the Rinehart kids gonna play)
- last year the Colts drafted 3 centers. *I'm guessing here but i think their logic is that most centers should be able to play guard, but a guard would have a more difficult time switching to center.
- Nothing against Rabach but if we could find a more stout center, one that could do a better job against the Ratliffs of the league our entire line would be
better IMO
centers: Alex Mack, Max Unger

I agree though that 13 is too high for any linemen really, best as I can tell from the talent in the upper echelons of the draft. That spot though is prime for a stud LB. Problem is though it probably needs to be Brian Cushing and 13 may even be too high for him. Mauluaga and Luarianitis (sp? of both) are probably better. But both are inside linebackers and it's going to be hard to convince the fans that it made sense to spend the first pick on a player who is going to (most likely) sit on the bench behind Fletcher for a year or two.

Rey Mauluaga is a beast i don't think he would sit if we drafted him, b/c Washington is likely gone or gonna be injured. I think RM or JL could fill in at SAM until Fletcher passes the MLB torch to them. I think Rey and Laurianitis are franchise caliber LBs and finding a place to play one of them with Fletcher and Rocky would be a good problem to have.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I also would like to ignore a lineman with our first overall pick. I know our lines are in shambles, but unless you're taking an LT -- the 13th pick is too early for an offensive lineman, and defensive guys scare the hell out of me. I've heard people on this board screaming for this DE or that DE (myself included) and when you look back -- that player did jack squat in the NFL. DEs have one of the highest bust rates in the NFL.

I must say, a stud LB would be a nice choice there. McIntosh is iffy, Washington is nearly done, and Fletch has been an absolute monster -- but he doesn't have a ton of time left.

See Ruhskins post - OL seem to be a fairly safe bet compared to other positions. You're right about DEs - very high bust factor. For that reason I think an OT would be an ideal pick at #13. (Remember Samuels was #3 overall in 2000). I think if one of the top OTs is available you have to look at him as an eventual LT even if in the first couple years he plays RT. Samuels is no spring chicken & eventually he'll start to break down more.

Someone mentioned that he could be moved to RT. I think that would be ideal in a year or two. For now he's still a solid LT when healthy.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Someone mentioned that he (Chris Samuels) could be moved to RT. I think that would be ideal in a year or two. For now he's still a solid LT when healthy.

Yes, I mentioned moving him to RT but I didn't mean to suggest that he shouldn't be playing LT. Nevertheless, we need to improve our OL now and I think that the best FA OT is Jordan Gross, who is a LT. If we were able to sign Gross, why not try to extend Chris Samuels' career by moving him to RT?

The Skins did that with Joe Jacoby when they got Jim Lachey. That worked out fine.

I also like the Idea of going after Stacy Andrews in FA. Right now, Stacy is playing RT. If we were to sign Stacy, then Chris would remain at LT.

What the heck, let's sign Gross and Andrews! Andrews might be a beast at G.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I also would like to ignore a lineman with our first overall pick. I know our lines are in shambles, but unless you're taking an LT -- the 13th pick is too early for an offensive lineman, and defensive guys scare the hell out of me. I've heard people on this board screaming for this DE or that DE (myself included) and when you look back -- that player did jack squat in the NFL. DEs have one of the highest bust rates in the NFL.

I must say, a stud LB would be a nice choice there. McIntosh is iffy, Washington is nearly done, and Fletch has been an absolute monster -- but he doesn't have a ton of time left.

LB would be a decent pickup, but there will be a lot of quality of linemen coming out this season, especially out of the Big 12 and Pac 10. Jansen is a stud, but face it he is aging and oft injured anymore. Ditto with Samuels and Thomas. If you have 80% of the present line as your starters for '09 don't expect much better results offensively. You know Jansen and the above mentioned guys will probably miss 8-14 weeks combined by being banged up, or worse.

[Hog1]

Perhaps the best plan is to draft.....smart? Come on, we've all seen that phrase before? Draft Smart?
Get good quality! Not most hyped guys. Our scouts REALLY need to earn their pay in the next couple of months.
WAIT........maybe since we are of a psuedo Indian/Native American image, we could get the cooperation of a tribe or two for some additional............scouts?
....probably not. It's all on you, Vinnie

[KI Skins Fan]

I'll try to answer your questions.

Originally Posted by 30gut

I wish we could know the Redskins evaluations of these players:

1) Can Rinehart start and be effective at RG/RT?

Not if they don't give him a chance.

2) Can Justin Geisinger start and be effective at a Guard spot and backup center and eventually challenge Casey?

Not if they don't give him a chance.


3) Can Devin Clark play or was it just hype because he might have been forced to play?

Not if they don't give him a chance.


4) Could Jansen be effective playing an interior line spot?

I think he's done.


5) Will/ can Thomas return next year, would we even want him too?

I think he'll be back but he is slipping.

Last part is just a gripe:
What is going on with the talent evaluation that we let a kid that i heard Buges liked: Andrew Crummey go to the Bengals when we needed offensive lineman right here?

I share your feelings about Crummey.

Anyway could these line-ups be effective next year?

Samuels, Kendal, Rabach, Geisinger, Rinehart

Samuels, Kendal, Rabach, Rinehart, Heyer

Samuels, Kendal, Rabach, Jansen, Rinehart

Samuels, Kendal, Rabach, Rinehart, Rookie + Rookie center in waiting

Only the second lineup does anything for me at all. This is what I would like to see: LT - FA Jordan Gross, LG - Kendall to start the season, then Rookie (Duke Robinson?) taking over, C - Rabach, RG - Rinehart, RT - Samuels

[30gut]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I'll try to answer your questions.

Wouldn't it be nice if we actually got to see guys Rinehart, Geisinger and Clark play? We would have a much better understanding of the true state of our offensive line.

Only the second lineup does anything for me at all. This is what I would like to see: LT - FA Jordan Gross, LG - Kendall to start the season, then Rookie (Duke Robinson?) taking over, C - Rabach, RG - Rinehart, RT - Samuels

I would prefer to see the Skins address the offensive line soley via draft.
Gross would be a nice addition but he's no spring chicken at 28 and he probably wouldn't come cheap.

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Wouldn't it be nice if we actually got to see guys Rinehart, Geisinger and Clark play? We would have a much better understanding of the true state of our offensive line.



I would prefer to see the Skins address the offensive line soley via draft.
Gross would be a nice addition but he's no spring chicken at 28 and he probably wouldn't come cheap.

Gross is going to get alot and we already have our LT in Sameuls.

09 Projected
LT Samuels
LG Reinhardt
C 3rd draft pick
RG Thomas
RT Heyer

Our main need is on the line but I see us taking a DT with #13

[30gut]

Originally Posted by vallin21

Gross is going to get alot and we already have our LT in Sameuls.

09 Projected
LT Samuels
LG Reinhardt
C 3rd draft pick
RG Thomas
RT Heyer

Our main need is on the line but I see us taking a DT with #13

I think that ^^ line wouldn't be much better then the line we had last year.

Dude where's Pete??

When you consider that Pete played well and stayed healthy all year, i'd say he was our best lineman last year.

Why would you want to bring back Thomas who struggled and is having offseason surgery?

A defensive tackle at pick 13? Why?

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think that ^^ line wouldn't be much better then the line we had last year.

Dude where's Pete??

When you consider that Pete played well and stayed healthy all year, i'd say he was our best lineman last year.

Why would you want to bring back Thomas who struggled and is having offseason surgery?

A defensive tackle at pick 13? Why?

We need to get younger on the line man. I hate to let Kendall go but he's 35. Thomas has played pretty well and I think if we cut him we'll take a hit. Honestly bro I think we will trade out and get more picks but if we're staying there I'm certain our pick will be on defense D- lineman, or LB.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I always get geeked about the draft. I've seen people clamoring for offensive lineman/defensive lineman and i would been in that group. But, knowing the Redskins anything can happen come draft time.

I wish we could know the Redskins evaluations of these players:

1) Chad Rinehart??-G/T-We used to hear good things about him during training camp.

Was his lack of playing time due to lack of ability or youth. It seems that Zorn isn't high on playing rookies and that Buges likes his veteran lineman.

Can Rinehart start and be effective at RG/RT

---(Woah! hit enter and it posted the thread woops!)-----------------

2) Can Justin Geisinger start and be effective at a Guard spot and backup center and eventually challenge Casey?

3) Can Devin Clark play or was it just hype because he might have been forced to play?

4) Could Jansen be effective playing an interior line spot?

5) Will/ can Thomas return next year, would we even want him too?

Last part is just a gripe:
What is going on with the talent evaluation that we let a kid that i heard Buges liked: Andrew Crummey go to the Bengals when we needed offensive lineman right here?

-BTW Crummey played in more games then Geisinger, Rinehart, Clark combined

Anyway could these line-ups be effective next year?

Samuels, Kendal, Rabach, Geisinger, Rinehart

Samuels, Kendal, Rabach, Rinehart, Heyer

Samuels, Kendal, Rabach, Jansen, Rinehart

Samuels, Kendal, Rabach, Rinehart, Rookie + Rookie center in waiting

I think you are looking at Samuels, Rinehart, Rabach, Thomas, Heyer. I would like Jansen to stay for backup or depth because Heyer seems to get dinged up, but I just dont see him staying. He would have to take less money also.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I think you are looking at Samuels, Rinehart, Rabach, Thomas, Heyer. I would like Jansen to stay for backup or depth because Heyer seems to get dinged up, but I just dont see him staying. He would have to take less money also.

While i'm thinking mostly positive thoughts about '09, can't help but say that lineup looks like a recipe for disaster. Obviously Samuels will come back strong. But Rinehart as a starter when there is no evidence whatsoever he can play at a high level. Remember he played small ball in college and hasn't earned enough confidence to take a snap all year. Rabach is at best an average center. I'd like to think Thomas had a down year and will return strong but the neck injury could be serious so he's a wait and see. And then Heyer. Jeez. One of the worst run blockers i saw all year. Massive upper body covered in baby fat and legs that seem to struggle to hold his own weight, let alone move a DE or DT around. Honestly if this is our lineup next season looks scary.

As to the critics of a top OT @ 13, Samuels won't play forever. Let the young stud take over the RT position w/ the intent of moving to LT in a few years. Give time for Rinehart to develop or draft another franchise RT down the road. Either way a monster at tackle is a position you can build the offense around (aside from QB). Three teams did it last year: drafted OTs in the 1st round and had em start all season (Miami, Denver and I forget the third at present). IMHO we need to stop dickering around w/ "potential talent" or "diamonds in the rough" when it comes to the lines (o-line especially right now). Just grab the top talent and start to build a team around a dominant line.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by The Goat

While i'm thinking mostly positive thoughts about '09, can't help but say that lineup looks like a recipe for disaster. Obviously Samuels will come back strong. But Rinehart as a starter when there is no evidence whatsoever he can play at a high level. Remember he played small ball in college and hasn't earned enough confidence to take a snap all year. Rabach is at best an average center. I'd like to think Thomas had a down year and will return strong but the neck injury could be serious so he's a wait and see. And then Heyer. Jeez. One of the worst run blockers i saw all year. Massive upper body covered in baby fat and legs that seem to struggle to hold his own weight, let alone move a DE or DT around. Honestly if this is our lineup next season looks scary.

As to the critics of a top OT @ 13, Samuels won't play forever. Let the young stud take over the RT position w/ the intent of moving to LT in a few years. Give time for Rinehart to develop or draft another franchise RT down the road. Either way a monster at tackle is a position you can build the offense around (aside from QB). Three teams did it last year: drafted OTs in the 1st round and had em start all season (Miami, Denver and I forget the third at present). IMHO we need to stop dickering around w/ "potential talent" or "diamonds in the rough" when it comes to the lines (o-line especially right now). Just grab the top talent and start to build a team around a dominant line.

With some of the talent in this draft it's easy to get distracted. I just hope we don't lose sight of what we need to do. A dominant line would be a beautiful, beautiful thing.

[Daseal]

OL is safe, I'm talking about Dline being unsafe. However, 13 is a BAD spot to draft an Olineman. Unless we need an LT (which we don't) there's no reason to spend that high of a pick on a guard, center, or RT. Also, Ruhskins -- the guys you mentioned were all what -- top 3 picks? There's a world of difference between a top 3 LT and a 13th LT.