Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I don't expect Romney to make this the center piece of his campaign and I certainly don't expect it to energize the base like some here think it will. Fact is millions upon millions have been helped by this law. That's not even in dispute. Now that it's been deemed constitutional by the highest court in the land, that too is off the table.

So exactly what is the argument that's going to fire up the base? A bunch of fancy charts, graphs, and Ops written by some egg heads at Heritage Foundation? Yeah, good luck with that.

It's the law of the land. Could use some improvements, but this thing is set in stone. Get over it.

You check Romney's fundraising numbers today?

The gov't forcing people to buy health insurance or pay a penalty...tax...or whatever Obama calls it today fires people up. The gov't forcing religious based charities and hospitals to violate their deeply held beliefs or be fined out of existence fires people up.

This certainly ain't anywhere near close to over.

[Daseal]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You check Romney's fundraising numbers today?

The gov't forcing people to buy health insurance or pay a penalty...tax...or whatever Obama calls it today fires people up. The gov't forcing religious based charities and hospitals to violate their deeply held beliefs or be fined out of existence fires people up.

This certainly ain't anywhere near close to over.

When religions start paying some taxes in this country they can have a say about that, until then -- offer contraceptives. They're not forcing anyone to USE them, just OFFER them to people interested.

It's very simple -- we're the only first world nation without some sort of universal healthcare solution. Our medical care is lagging behind a majority of the world. Socialized programs aren't perfect, but there's a reason why many of them dominate the best healthcare rankings in the world. Take a look at France sometime.

It comes down to this -- we're forcing insurance companies to insure everyone. That means they have to take a risk, to help counteract that risk, everyone HAS to have insurance. It's fair and good for our country. We need to start focusing our efforts on infrastructure, education, and the general welfare of our people.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Daseal

When religions start paying some taxes in this country they can have a say about that, until then -- offer contraceptives. They're not forcing anyone to USE them, just OFFER them to people interested.

So to have universal healthcare/Obamacare, you're willing to throw out the protection of Freedom of Religion in the 1st Ammendment. So unless religious institutions pay a "fine", "tax", or whatever you want to call it, they are forced to violate deeply held core religious beliefs?

You understand the HHS mandate also requires for sterilization and the abortion drugs, correct. This isn't about contraception, it's about people being FORCED to violate their religious beliefs.

You may not care about this, but you're barking WAAAAYYYY up the wrong tree on this one.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

So unless religious institutions pay a "fine", "tax", or whatever you want to call it, they are forced to violate deeply held core religious beliefs?

You understand the HHS mandate also requires for sterilization and the abortion drugs, correct. This isn't about contraception, it's about people being FORCED to violate their religious beliefs.

You may not care about this, but you're barking WAAAAYYYY up the wrong tree on this one.

...but Christians don't mind when they force other people onto THEIR beliefs. (abortion/gay marriage)


Funny how that works.


IT"S OK IF I VIOLATE YOUR RIGHTS DUE TO MY RELIGION BUT YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO DO THE SAME!!! (condescending tone intended)

Christians have and will continue to be some of the biggest hypocrites I have ever encountered. (this is purely a statement on MY experiences)

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

...but Christians don't mind when they force other people onto THEIR beliefs. (abortion/gay marriage)

Funny how that works.

IT"S OK IF I VIOLATE YOUR RIGHTS DUE TO MY RELIGION BUT YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO DO THE SAME!!! (condescending tone intended)

Last I checked there was no right to abortion or gay marriage in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Also, while most Christians are opposed to gay marriage, I haven't seen any calls from organized religion for fines on any gay rights organizations.

As far as abortion goes most Christians view abortion as taking a human life....I guess unborn children have no right to LIFE, Liberty, or the Pursuit of Happiness. Wanting to stop or limit the killing of innocent life and lobbying the government to restrict these procedures is vastly different from a government forcing religious organizations to provide contraception, sterilization and abortion drugs or being fined out of existence.

I know your views will never change, because in your mind you're always right/ But for others who have interest here's where the Catholic Church stands on the issue.
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-acti...ve-Mandate.pdf

Good luck to Obama and the left, pissing off 60M+ Americans who are normally split close down the middle D/R.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Good luck to Obama and the left, pissing off 60M+ Americans who are normally split close down the middle D/R.

For the record, I'm against Obama.


I posted a link in the Presidential thread that can give you many reasons to hate his Presidency, which I have. His health care is actually one of the positives. It's not perfect, but it's better than what any other president or congressman has done.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You check Romney's fundraising numbers today?

The gov't forcing people to buy health insurance or pay a penalty...tax...or whatever Obama calls it today fires people up. The gov't forcing religious based charities and hospitals to violate their deeply held beliefs or be fined out of existence fires people up.

This certainly ain't anywhere near close to over.

We've been going around and around on this for a few years now.

So, the thing that Mitt Romney did in Massachusetts is now constitutional for the nation, making his entire argument one of philosophy. I don't see how the animates the race long-term. Can't wait to hear Romney explain that and keep the base fired up.

Yesterday was a clear win for Americans, Obama and, yes, liberals. We won. It's as simple as that. No spin. See you in November.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

See you in November.

In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.

[12thMan]

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;923197]In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.[/QUOTE

I'm by no means over-confident. But as of today, I don't see Romney's path to victory and neither does his campaign.

What's the bet anyway?

[saden1]

[quote=12thMan;923206]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.[/QUOTE

I'm by no means over-confident. But as of today, I don't see Romney's path to victory and neither does his campaign.

What's the bet anyway?

You should be confidant if everything stays as is. It will be close but so are all elections these days.

Election Forecasts - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=saden1;923210]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You should be confidant if everything stays as is. It will be close but so are all elections these days.

Election Forecasts - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com

I've been following this one:
RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map

but as you said, this will be close.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I've been following this one:
RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map

but as you said, this will be close.

From the looks of it Romney has to win 65% of the toss up state electoral votes. For your sake you better hope people don't hold the fact that he is a Mormon against him and he manages pull in 89 of the 136 toss electoral votes.

[HailGreen28]

[quote=12thMan;923206]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.[/QUOTE

I'm by no means over-confident. But as of today, I don't see Romney's path to victory and neither does his campaign.

What's the bet anyway?

At this point, we're screwed either way. Used to be, Republicans gave too much corporate welfare rather than creating jobs, and Democrats gave too much individual welfare rather than creating jobs.

Now Obama, like Bush, does both. Bush's big spending on everything including the prescription drug deal, and Obama's big spending and working for the health insurance companies and BP. Romney is no better.

I don't see any victory for Americans in the health care mandate being upheld. Just victory for the insurance industry.

[12thMan]

[quote=HailGreen28;923212]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

At this point, we're screwed either way. Used to be, Republicans gave too much corporate welfare rather than creating jobs, and Democrats gave too much individual welfare rather than creating jobs.

Now Obama, like Bush, does both. Bush's big spending on everything including the prescription drug deal, and Obama's big spending and working for the health insurance companies and BP. Romney is no better.

I don't see any victory for Americans in the health care mandate being upheld. Just victory for the insurance industry.

Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=12thMan;923218]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.

"Benefits" of Obamacare
- over $ 700B added to defecit by 2019
- over $ 500B in new taxes on ALL Americans
- Obamacare federal mandate (read unfunded mandate) crushes state budgets.
- Doctors will leave medicine, new doctors will not make investment and will choose other careers leading to an increased shortage of doctors and reduced quality of care.
- Government determines treatment options, particularly important for seniors. "Death Panels", probably not but "rationing of limited resources" absolutely: End-of-Life Medical Advice: Devaluing Patients in Name of Greater Good? - Forbes

We all have first-hand stories of bad healthcare experiences, what everyone needs to ask is has gov't involvement helped or hindered. In my experience gov't involvement has been a detriment. Another important and simple question to ask....if socialized medicine is so great, why do the affluent and often military personnel from other countries seek treatment in the U.S.?

Pretty simple stuff when you get down to it; The shiny new car looks great, but when the monthly payments come due.....not so much.