Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

[NYCskinfan82]

Originally Posted by bertoskins2

get peyton manning, trade down to get 2 solid linemen to protect him, get the next tom brady on the later rounds. Win superbowl as early as next year and save mike shanahans job.

brilliant!

[30gut]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

If he can't drop back and be an elite passer in a pro style system I don't want him. Big Ben, Manning brothers, Brady, Brees and Rodgers. That's the kind of QB play that wins Super Bowls. Give me a guy like that. If RGIII needs a special offense that caters to his unique skillset then we shouldn't be trading up to get him. I don't want to rely on his legs and am not interested in a gimmicky offense. Let some other team run with that experiment. Until I see someone win it all like that, count me not interested.

For the record, I'm in the neither camp unless RGIII falls to 6 and the Shanny's assess him to be an ideal fit for their system.

How does anyone know right now what type of QB Griffin will become?

We don't know and can't know.
The only thing we can judge is Griffin's skillset.

BTW-
Scrambling athleitc QBs like Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Favre, John Elway, Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodger have also won SBs.
There have also been a bunch of pocket passers that have lost SBs or never been to SB or failed to even be good QBs.

Also just because Baylor runs a spread doesn't mean that Griffin can only succeed in a spread.
Further spread QBs have been making the transition into the NFL for awhile now since Ben Roethlisberger to Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco.
While at the same time NFL passing games are running more and more spread concepts.
The undefeated Patriots were largely a spread offense, current Bills offense is a spread, the Panthers/Broncos are spread and zone-read heavy offenses, the Packers run alot of spread etc.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Trading up and drafting RG3 is a wiser move than signing Manning. With Manning, you would have to give not only full control of the offense, but tweak the offense and mix things in with the playbook he used in Indy and incorporate those plays in conjunction to Mike Shanahan's plays. Also, Kyle Shanahan while being the offensive coordinator would still have that role, but Manning would be calling his own plays in the huddle.

Then there's the factor that not one free agent signing or trade has done Washington any good when it comes to the QB position. Brad Johnson, Mark Brunell, Todd Collins, and Donovan McNabb only took the Redskins so far. That would tell anyone that you can't win playoff games and Super Bowls with QBs from other teams. In today's National Football League, you have to follow the formula of other teams and draft your own QB in the first round. There those QBs who were selected in the first round of the draft who guide their teams to the playoffs year in and year out. Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Aaron Rogers, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, a few others were first round draft choices. The only exception is Jay Cutler, who in 2010 took the Bears to the NFC title game but he wasn't drafted by them.

The Redskins must duplicate the usual formula in this era of pro football. While signing yet another free agent quarterback would make me roll my eyes and frown, taking either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III would put a huge smile on my face. Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan must trade up even if it includes giving up next year's first rounder in addition to this year's to land the quarterback that the Redskins need.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by 30gut

How does anyone know right now what type of QB Griffin will become?

We don't know and can't know.
The only thing we can judge is Griffin's skillset.

BTW-
Scrambling athleitc QBs like Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Favre, John Elway, Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodger have also won SBs.
There have also been a bunch of pocket passers that have lost SBs or never been to SB or failed to even be good QBs.

Also just because Baylor runs a spread doesn't mean that Griffin can only succeed in a spread.
Further spread QBs have been making the transition into the NFL for awhile now since Ben Roethlisberger to Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco.
While at the same time NFL passing games are running more and more spread concepts.
The undefeated Patriots were largely a spread offense, current Bills offense is a spread, the Panthers/Broncos are spread and zone-read heavy offenses, the Packers run alot of spread etc.

You said it perfect.... We dont know if RG can make all the passes to be a good QB, BUT we do know Peyton Manning can and can at the highest level of anyone..

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

Trading up and drafting RG3 is a wiser move than signing Manning. With Manning, you would have to give not only full control of the offense, but tweak the offense and mix things in with the playbook he used in Indy and incorporate those plays in conjunction to Mike Shanahan's plays. Also, Kyle Shanahan while being the offensive coordinator would still have that role, but Manning would be calling his own plays in the huddle.

Then there's the factor that not one free agent signing or trade has done Washington any good when it comes to the QB position. Brad Johnson, Mark Brunell, Todd Collins, and Donovan McNabb only took the Redskins so far. That would tell anyone that you can't win playoff games and Super Bowls with QBs from other teams. In today's National Football League, you have to follow the formula of other teams and draft your own QB in the first round. There those QBs who were selected in the first round of the draft who guide their teams to the playoffs year in and year out. Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Aaron Rogers, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, a few others were first round draft choices. The only exception is Jay Cutler, who in 2010 took the Bears to the NFC title game but he wasn't drafted by them.

The Redskins must duplicate the usual formula in this era of pro football. While signing yet another free agent quarterback would make me roll my eyes and frown, taking either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III would put a huge smile on my face. Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan must trade up even if it includes giving up next year's first rounder in addition to this year's to land the quarterback that the Redskins need.

So winning 10 plus games and possible playoff run isn't worth that huh?

[biffle]

From KC Joyner:

In his 2010 Heisman Trophy-winning campaign with the Auburn Tigers, Newton averaged 9.3 yards per attempt (YPA) in games against opponents from BCS conferences. He also tallied a 12.9 vertical YPA (vertical defined as passes thrown 11 or more yards downfield) and a 15.5 stretch vertical YPA (aerials thrown 20 or more yards).

All of those are superb totals, but contrast them with the 2011 totals posted by Griffin in games against opponents from BCS conferences: 10.7 overall YPA (tops in the FBS), 16.0 vertical YPA and 23.0 stretch vertical YPA. Each of Griffin's marks is appreciably better than Newton's. While Griffin may not have the shiftiness Newton possesses, he is a terrific scrambler in his own right with elite speed that defenses must respect.

One of the likely reasons for the statistical edge is that the Baylor Bears' offense had more pro-style tendencies than the run-heavy spread offense Newton played in at Auburn. That allowed Griffin to attack defenses in a wider variety of ways than Newton was able to and should help reduce his pro transition time.

Not bad for a running QB.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Exactly. And how many games does he miss each year?

How many of Vick's injuries occured in the pocket vs outside the pocket?
How many of his injuries are a direct result of his scrambling?
How many of Vick's injuries are due to recklessness more then the actual scramble itself?

How many of the often injured pocket passing Matt Schaub's injuries come outside the pocket vs inside the pocket?
Or Kurt Warner?

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

So winning 10 plus games and possible playoff run isn't worth that huh?

Manning is coming off a neck surgery that sidelined him for all of the 2011 season. He wouldn't have the level of QB protection in Washington or the elite level of receivers that he had in Indianapolis. While Manning offers a high reward, he also offers a very high risk. One helmet to helmet hit could injure his neck again.

And there's no guarantee that he'll win ten games for the Redskins. Hankerson, Moss, Gaffney, and F. Davis aren't on par with the level of the receiving corps that Peyton Manning had in Indianapolis.

And then there's the potential with a power struggle. Being a 4 time NFL MVP, Manning will want to call his own plays like he's been doing. Will Mike Shanahan and Kyle Shanahan put their egos aside and let Manning do things he does best? Or will they try and micro manage Manning and make him a Shanahan robot like they tried to do with McNabb?


Peyton is on the decline. While he'll still be effective, he so professional and so good that he doesn't fit the Shanahan pedigree for a QB. Manning would be slow rolling out to his left or to his right.

It's better to let the idea of signing Manning die. We need to draft our QB in the 1st round of the draft like Baltimore, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, New York Giants, New York Jets, and San Francisco did.

Also, Peyton Manning would only offer a short term solution. He's 35-36 years of age, and he's not getting any younger. After the Pop Warner level of quarterback play we witnessed last season with John Beck and Rex Grossman, Allen and Shanahan would want a long term solution. RG3 is that long term solution not because he's dynamic and athletic, but because he's 22 years old with greatness awaiting him at the next level.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

Because RGIII is a run first QB right?

Robert Griffin III, Baylor, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

They say a lot of great things about him and his accuracy and strength but...

His accuracy dips on throws inside the pocket and looks most comfortable when he can get outside the hashmarks.

Will KS expect him to roll out more or expect him to stay in the pocket like he did a more mobile Beck? I'd expect stay in the pocket.

Has inconsistent lower body mechanics with messy footwork, throwing of his back foot far too often. Has a three-quarters delivery and unconventional throwing motion with low delivery and release point. Operated out of a shotgun spread offense with various zone and option schemes at Baylor, but hardly a complicated playbook ? doesn?t have experience taking snaps from under center.

. Holds the ball too long and needs to improve his pocket awareness, abandoning his reads too easily. Streaky internal clock and looks to get outside of the pocket too soon. Has questionable vision as a passer, staring down defenders and making puzzling decisions at times. Still makes too many mental mistakes and needs to polish the mental aspect of his game. Forces throws and doesn?t look off defenders ? throws across his body too much and doesn?t anticipate defenders as well as he needs to yet. Needs to develop better pre-snap awareness to see the blitz and recognize what the defense is doing.

Has a lean frame and only adequate height. Not frail, but doesn?t have the body type to withstand a consistent beating. Has more straight-line speed than shifty burst and has added 20+ pounds since his peak as a track star. Has some ball security questions as a runner with several fumbles on his r?sum?. Holds the ball too long and takes unnecessary hits, getting beat up physically ? strong durability concerns and suffered a serious knee injury in 2009.

Now I'll admit I took only the negative comments and posted them. I think almost all of us would agree he's a really good QB. I think depending on the situation any of us would take him, some would trade up, some would prefer we take him at #6. So there are reasons why we like him. So I'm pointing out his flaws only because as some would make it sound ... he has none and he's a franchise QB because of it or will be.

No my point is that some of these faults are the basis for our scheme which he supposedly fits into.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

3,000+ posts in just over a year.

Someone needs a social life...
No, social networking doesn't count.

Ha! That's fantastic!!

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by los panda

i forgot to explain why i chose rg3. i chose him because manning cannot throw a football the way an nfl qb needs to. he is useless to an nfl team. it was an easy choice between these 2 candidates.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

The Redskins must duplicate the usual formula in this era of pro football. While signing yet another free agent quarterback would make me roll my eyes and frown, taking either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III would put a huge smile on my face. Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan must trade up even if it includes giving up next year's first rounder in addition to this year's to land the quarterback that the Redskins need.

Not waisting more then 1 draft pick on said player would put the big smile on my face if we could land one of these, but it's doubtfull. So trading back, continueing with last years fabulous draft by trading back to aquire more picks in order to not only get valuable pieces but to help build up our back up pool.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Claiborne, Blackmon, Richardson, Coples, Rieff, Floyd...one of these guys could fall to 6 and have someone jonesing for them. It just takes one smitten team.

Not likely IMO. We were able to move last year because a QB fell to our spot. Anythings possible but the QB's are usually what make teams trade up.

[celts32]

[quote=SBXVII;884329]

Originally Posted by celts32

Thats highly speculative. A trade down is not always available when you want it. Regardless that's not really the point. I don't care how many picks it is...I want the QB problem solved LONG TERM. The teams that win consistently in this league are the ones with the franchise QB's. We need to get one if we want to be something more then a surprise playoff team every now and then.
QUOTE]

Just like trading up is just as speculative. There is a lot of unknowns,

What are the Rams asking for? not what we think it should be but what are the Rams asking for?

Are the Rams even willing to trade? maybe they want RGIII?

I think we all want the QB position locked up LONG TERM. But there is no guarentee with RGIII either. Which is why I'm not up for tossing 4+ picks at just one person in hopes he is and possibly later finding out he's not. Now if this was Drew Brees, or Eli Manning or an already established proven QB then I'm all in and would throw 4+ draft picks for the team to get him.

Okay so we will continue on the wait for a QB to fall from the sky plan. Everything is a risk...there are no guarantees...but the only thing thats certain is that we are not winning until we find a QB.

To answer your question...if the Rams don't want to trade and want to draft RG3 for themselves then I would do 3 cartwheels and offer them the #6 pick for Bradford.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by celts32

Not likely IMO. We were able to move last year because a QB fell to our spot. Anythings possible but the QB's are usually what make teams trade up.

Ok, fair enough. My point wasn't that we WILL trade down, just that the possibility is there.

And, mathematically, one of the guys I listed or RGIII MUST be there at 6 if we assume that Luck and Kahlil will go in the first three.