Start John Beck Madness Thread

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GMScud

He turns it over way too much. 14 turnovers in his last 7 starts. That's bad. Really bad.

Yeah but that's one side of the equation. Grossman has also made plays that have contributed to the games we've won. How do we know Beck is capable of making those plays? All Beck has so far in his career is negative plays, and he didn't exactly booster Shanny's confidence in him by tearing it up during the preseason either.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by mooby

Yeah but that's one side of the equation. Grossman has also made plays that have contributed to the games we've won. How do we know Beck is capable of making those plays? All Beck has so far in his career is negative plays, and he didn't exactly booster Shanny's confidence in him by tearing it up during the preseason either.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not an advocate for either QB. Since we have to have one of them under center, I still lean towards Rex... for now.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not an advocate for either QB. Since we have to have one of them under center, I still lean towards Rex... for now.

I'm not either. I'm an advocate for Shanny finding his own elite young playcaller in the draft in the offseason. When Grossman starts screwing up left and right and can't drive the team down the field or score touchdowns, that's when I'll advocate pulling him. But it's not like we have a known quantity at backup, so we might just be wasting this good start to the season if we do that.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by mooby

Yeah but that's one side of the equation. Grossman has also made plays that have contributed to the games we've won. How do we know Beck is capable of making those plays? All Beck has so far in his career is negative plays, and he didn't exactly booster Shanny's confidence in him by tearing it up during the preseason either.

How do we know Beck isn't capable of making those plays, more plays, or better decisions if we never give him the opportunity to prove himself in a live game format with consequences.

I understand why the people here want to ride Grossman until the wheels fall off. It's the same conservative football mentality that has permeated this franchise and its fan base for the past decade. They're the same people who are complaining that we should run the ball more when we're 6th in the NFL in rushing attempts.

As the saying goes "fortune favors the bold", not fortune favors the prudent.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

How do we know Beck isn't capable of making those plays, more plays, or better decisions if we never give him the opportunity to prove himself in a live game format with consequences.

I understand why the people here want to ride Grossman until the wheels fall off. It's the same conservative football mentality that has permeated this franchise and its fan base for the past decade. They're the same people who are complaining that we should run the ball more when we're 6th in the NFL in rushing attempts.

As the saying goes "fortune favors the bold", not fortune favors the prudent.

And how do you know that Beck CAN do those things? Answer: you don't.

The fact is, neither Grossman nor Beck are the answer in the end. When it comes to QB play this year, we must grin and bear the situation.

But since some here would like to blindly change QB's, I reinstate my call for Jon Crompton. How do we know that he isn't the next Dan Marino?

Start Crompton Now! Start Crompton Now! Rocky Top for the Win!

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by Lotus

And how do you know that Beck CAN do those things? Answer: you don't.

The fact is, neither Grossman nor Beck are the answer in the end. When it comes to QB play this year, we must grin and bear the situation.

But since some here would like to blindly change QB's, I reinstate my call for Jon Crompton. How do we know that he isn't the next Dan Marino?

Start Crompton Now! Start Crompton Now! Rocky Top for the Win!

Read, and retain. Read, and retain. Not a difficult process. Whether he can or he can't get it done, as we know him now, is not the issue. It's nebulous. The point is to put him in a situation where you can clearly define whether he can or can't get it done.

And what "some here" are proposing is not completely absurd. Beck atleast knows the offense. I realize you're just trying your hand at humor, but Crompton? C'mon dude.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

Read, and retain. Read, and retain. Not a difficult process. Whether he can or he can't get it done, as we know him now, is not the issue. It's nebulous. The point is to put him in a situation where you can clearly define whether he can or can't get it done.

And what "some here" are proposing is not completely absurd. Beck atleast knows the offense. I realize you're just trying your hand at humor, but Crompton? C'mon dude.

That's what the preseason is for and Beck really did not get it done that well.

I am no Rex apologist. He makes me cringe often.

But the "let's throw Beck out there and see what happens" argument that you are making is absurd. First, we could be worse off and thereby squander our hard-bought early gains. Second, Shanny sees Beck every day in practice and therefore has a fair idea what he can do, so Shanny has no reason to throw things against the wall to see what sticks. Third, the "let's see what happens" argument can be applied to others on the roster. It is also coherent to argue that we don't know what Crompton would do so we should throw him out there. Heck, one could argue as well that we should throw Doughty out there as QB - he's never been tested by fire in that role, either.

You do not seem to appreciate how absurd the "let's just throw Beck in there and see what happens" argument is.

[fanarchist]

Originally Posted by Lotus

That's what the preseason is for and Beck really did not get it done that well.

I am no Rex apologist. He makes me cringe often.

But the "let's throw Beck out there and see what happens" argument that you are making is absurd. First, we could be worse off and thereby squander our hard-bought early gains. Second, Shanny sees Beck every day in practice and therefore has a fair idea what he can do, so Shanny has no reason to throw things against the wall to see what sticks. Third, the "let's see what happens" argument can be applied to others on the roster. It is also coherent to argue that we don't know what Crompton would do so we should throw him out there. Heck, one could argue as well that we should throw Doughty out there as QB - he's never been tested by fire in that role, either.

You do not seem to appreciate how absurd the "let's just throw Beck in there and see what happens" argument is.

Yet again you bungle the point by taking it to extreme levels of absurdity. Beck is a guy, at the QB position, who has been in the system, with offensive playbook in hand, for 1 year and 3 months now. He is a guy who understands the system, and convinsingly owns the backup role on this squad. He was in an open QB competition vying for the starting role with Rex Grossman this offseason. It is highly debatable, in my opinion, that Grossman out played Beck to the point where he dominated the competition so conclusively that he won the job unquestionably. To deminish his role with such emphatic asininity, to the point where you would juxtapose Beck with Doughty at the QB position, is more of a slap in the the face to the Shanahans and their personnel decisions then I could ever make with a simple plea to see a guy play in a game scenario before the verdict has been rendered. I'm content waiting for Grossman to continue to make the same mistakes, because with every one Beck inches closer to his shot. He may flop, he may be average, he may impress. I don't know. I never claimed to. But I atleast have enough faith in the Shanahans to believe that they consider their backup good enough to keep him one injury away from starting.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by fanarchist

Yet again you bungle the point by taking it to extreme levels of absurdity. Beck is a guy, at the QB position, who has been in the system, with offensive playbook in hand, for 1 year and 3 months now. He is a guy who understands the system, and convinsingly owns the backup role on this squad. He was in an open QB competition vying for the starting role with Rex Grossman this offseason. It is highly debatable, in my opinion, that Grossman out played Beck to the point where he dominated the competition so conclusively that he won the job unquestionably. To deminish his role with such emphatic asininity, to the point where you would juxtapose Beck with Doughty at the QB position, is more of a slap in the the face to the Shanahans and their personnel decisions then I could ever make with a simple plea to see a guy play in a game scenario before the verdict has been rendered. I'm content waiting for Grossman to continue to make the same mistakes, because with every one Beck inches closer to his shot. He may flop, he may be average, he may impress. I don't know. I never claimed to. But I atleast have enough faith in the Shanahans to believe that they consider their backup good enough to keep him one injury away from starting.

wow...I can't believe you two are arguing back and forth about a QB and team that is 3-1. Skins fans can never be happy without controversy.

To your point about Beck being in the system and knowing it after 1yr 3months. Rex has 3 years in the system and I would bet he has a better handle on it than Beck. The backup QB is the best position in football. He is the savior, the man, that is until the starter goes down and he steps in and shits on himself. Then it is well he is a backup what do you expect. Look, Rex is starting because he is the better of the two. Shanny has had two years of these guys on the roster, watching them practice and watching game film. I think they know who is better and who gives us a better chance to win.

Of the 5 INT's, how many of them should have been caught? 3 or 4 right.. So, if the WR catches the ball, are we even having this discussion. NOPE. So go and watch the games again, Rex isn't playing that bad.