Brandon Marshall anyone

[Rajmahal33]

They are lucky to have gotten Santonio though...

Pittsburgh isn't good b/c of the WR's they have or have not. They are good b/c they have a solid defensive core of players (which we have) and a battle tested QB who knows what it takes to win (which we, to this point, have not). After this season we will know a little bit better about our QB situation and should be able to make a definitive move in one direction or another.

I say keep the picks for now...there will likely be some other star WR who will become available next offseason. Or maybe, and i know this is a hard pill to swallow for a lot of ppl here, our FO was right about one of our 3 2nd rd. picks last year.

[johno]

no thanks. guy is a good wr, but also is batshit crazy. if we want to to blow some money or draft picks, it should be on someone for the OL. i say we keep our picks and hope for some real results from at least someone named williams, thomas, and/or kelly.

[John Denny]

Originally Posted by johno

no thanks. guy is a good wr, but also is batshit crazy. if we want to to blow some money or draft picks, it should be on someone for the OL. i say we keep our picks and hope for some real results from at least someone named williams, thomas, and/or kelly.

This is a good point. Marshall is a beast but how much difference with an aging line. Plus, where are we going to find the money to pay this woman-beater?
If we were to pull the trigger, I'd offer a 2nd and a 3rd in 2011. Marshall would instantly become our undisputed No.1 WR. The guy is big, strong, fast and can flat out reel the ball in. He had 18 catches in one game last year and is averaging something like 100 catches over the past two years.
Hopefully, Thomas and or Kelly will show up this year. God knows we're going to need them. Moss and Cooooley can't do it by themselves.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Rajmahal33

They are lucky to have gotten Santonio though...

Pittsburgh isn't good b/c of the WR's they have or have not. They are good b/c they have a solid defensive core of players (which we have) and a battle tested QB who knows what it takes to win (which we, to this point, have not). After this season we will know a little bit better about our QB situation and should be able to make a definitive move in one direction or another.

I say keep the picks for now...there will likely be some other star WR who will become available next offseason. Or maybe, and i know this is a hard pill to swallow for a lot of ppl here, our FO was right about one of our 3 2nd rd. picks last year.

I wasn't saying they're good because of their wr's. I'm saying they're good because of their overall approach to personel. I just used the wr's as an example of that. That solid core of defensive players is there because they haven't overspent on any one position area.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by Rajmahal33

They are lucky to have gotten Santonio though...

Lucky in what way? He was a first round pick.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Rajmahal33

They are lucky to have gotten Santonio though...

Pittsburgh isn't good b/c of the WR's they have or have not. They are good b/c they have a solid defensive core of players (which we have) and a battle tested QB who knows what it takes to win (which we, to this point, have not). After this season we will know a little bit better about our QB situation and should be able to make a definitive move in one direction or another.

I say keep the picks for now...there will likely be some other star WR who will become available next offseason. Or maybe, and i know this is a hard pill to swallow for a lot of ppl here, our FO was right about one of our 3 2nd rd. picks last year.

Great post , I agree 100 % . We need an OL to give our Qb time to throw the ball downfield ! Maybe I trade one of our WR's straight up for BM , but NO way I give them 2010 draft pick for him .

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by budw38

Great post , I agree 100 % . We need an OL to give our Qb time to throw the ball downfield ! Maybe I trade one of our WR's straight up for BM , but NO way I give them 2010 draft pick for him .

The Steelers pass protection was as pathetic as ours last year. They got the ball downfield, because Ben's not afraid to grip it and rip it.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by budw38

Great post , I agree 100 % . We need an OL to give our Qb time to throw the ball downfield ! Maybe I trade one of our WR's straight up for BM , but NO way I give them 2010 draft pick for him .

Big Ben was sacked more than any other QB except for Matt Cassell, but he kept plays alive and got the ball downfield. Campbell seems to need perfect pass protection in order to be successful. He either can't anticipate where the rush is coming from, or he can't evade defenders long enough to make a positive play, or both. But I think he'll be better this year whether or not the O line is much improved.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Big Ben was sacked more than any other QB except for Matt Cassell, but he kept plays alive and got the ball downfield. Campbell seems to need perfect pass protection in order to be successful. He either can't anticipate where the rush is coming from, or he can't evade defenders long enough to make a positive play, or both. But I think he'll be better this year whether or not the O line is much improved.

I don't disagree with your statement , I was not comparing JC & Ben . Big Ben has a knack for making big plays when he is under great pressure , lets just see what JC can deliver with more time and another year in Zorn's WC offense . IF JC plays great , we might have our Qb for years to come , if he bombs ,,,, Rivers might be coming to DC in 2010.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Rajmahal33

They are lucky to have gotten Santonio though...

Pittsburgh isn't good b/c of the WR's they have or have not. They are good b/c they have a solid defensive core of players (which we have) and a battle tested QB who knows what it takes to win (which we, to this point, have not). After this season we will know a little bit better about our QB situation and should be able to make a definitive move in one direction or another.

I say keep the picks for now...there will likely be some other star WR who will become available next offseason. Or maybe, and i know this is a hard pill to swallow for a lot of ppl here, our FO was right about one of our 3 2nd rd. picks last year.

Exactly. Ben is a playmaker and the Steeler franchise is just solid from top to bottom. They could take our receivers and win the Super Bowl with them. Ben got sacked a ton, but no one used that as an excuse for poor QB play. He kept plays alive with his feet, shed tackles and got the ball downfield.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Exactly. Ben is a playmaker and the Steeler franchise is just solid from top to bottom. They could take our receivers and win the Super Bowl with them. Ben got sacked a ton, but no one used that as an excuse for poor QB play. He kept plays alive with his feet, shed tackles and got the ball downfield.

Well the reason Big Ben is a playmaker is because he was thrown in the fire and was allowed to play from day one. Ben has 72 career starts, so I would call him a veteran, as such he is expected to carry his team if necessary, although he has had an elite defense along the way. Unfortunately, in our team, Gibbs didn't trust Campbell as a rookie and he didn't get the same experience as Ben. Campbell has half the experience (36 starts) than Big Ben, and honestly I don't think anyone has expected him to carry the team on his back or win games. Yes, Campbell played shitty when his offensive line and running game disintegrated, but also the Redskins defense last year was not up to the level of Pittsburgh. I don't think anyone is that shallow to just say that the Redskins did not well just b/c Campbell got sacked a lot.

Furthermore, why are you guys dogging the Steelers WR group? You mean to tell me that Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress, and Santonio Holmes are not good enough to be considered part of the reason of the Steelers' success over the past couple of seasons?? I mean the Steelers have had a top 5/top 10 defense for a while, and a pretty strong running game (two back system for most of the time), but you guys make it sound like their wideouts were just some guys they got off the street or something.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well the reason Big Ben is a playmaker is because he was thrown in the fire and was allowed to play from day one. Ben has 72 career starts, so I would call him a veteran, as such he is expected to carry his team if necessary, although he has had an elite defense along the way. Unfortunately, in our team, Gibbs didn't trust Campbell as a rookie and he didn't get the same experience as Ben. Campbell has half the experience (36 starts) than Big Ben, and honestly I don't think anyone has expected him to carry the team on his back or win games. Yes, Campbell played shitty when his offensive line and running game disintegrated, but also the Redskins defense last year was not up to the level of Pittsburgh. I don't think anyone is that shallow to just say that the Redskins did not well just b/c Campbell got sacked a lot.

Furthermore, why are you guys dogging the Steelers WR group? You mean to tell me that Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress, and Santonio Holmes are not good enough to be considered part of the reason of the Steelers' success over the past couple of seasons?? I mean the Steelers have had a top 5/top 10 defense for a while, and a pretty strong running game (two back system for most of the time), but you guys make it sound like their wideouts were just some guys they got off the street or something.

Are you saying Ben wasn't really good until his 72nd start? Or even 50th start? How did he play in his first 36 games vs. Campbell? He was 13-0 as a rookie (and offensive rookie player of the year and SB winner the following year), and I don't care how you parse the stats to make the argument that Campbell is just as good. No one in their right mind can watch the two play and think they're on par with each other. For now, Ben is head and shoulders better. I like Campbell and hope he has a break-out season, but his play has been mediocre at best up to this point.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Are you saying Ben wasn't really good until his 72nd start? Or even 50th start? How did he play in his first 36 games vs. Campbell? He was 13-0 as a rookie (and offensive rookie player of the year and SB winner the following year), and I don't care how you parse the stats to make the argument that Campbell is just as good. No one in their right mind can watch the two play and think they're on par with each other. For now, Ben is head and shoulders better. I like Campbell and hope he has a break-out season, but his play has been mediocre at best up to this point.

Dude, you are way off. My statements were a reaction to your following comment:

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Exactly. Ben is a playmaker and the Steeler franchise is just solid from top to bottom. They could take our receivers and win the Super Bowl with them. Ben got sacked a ton, but no one used that as an excuse for poor QB play. He kept plays alive with his feet, shed tackles and got the ball downfield.

Nowhere in my response did I say that Jason Campbell is better than Big Ben. To me your comment that "no one used that [being sacked] as an excuse for poor QB play" sounded as you were saying that unlike Campbell, Ben got sacked a lot and still got his team to the playoffs. It sounded as though you were comparing Campbell to Ben. My response was simply saying that you cannot compare the two at this point, since Ben has more experience (twice as many starts as JC) and was thrown into the starting role since his rookie year (unlike JC).

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

There's not a huge difference between Campbell and Big Ben?!?!?! Was there a 2 for 1 sale on crack in your neighborhood? The final drive of the Super Bowl is the difference between the two. When has Campbell done anything like that? Ben flat out wins games for his team and is on his way to the HOF. Campbell is still a work in progress and could be a back-up the rest of his career if he doesn't break out in a big way this year.

I don't necessarily agree that there is not much of a huge difference between JC and Big Ben, however this statement once again leads me to believe that you are comparing Ben to Campbell. Let's look at their differences: 72 starts vs. 36 starts; being the starting QB from rookie year vs. sitting on the bench; having Plaxico Burress/Hines Ward/Santonio Holmes vs. having just Santana Moss; having an elite defense that can win a game vs. having a bend but don't break defense. Ben has had many advantages and that makes him better than Campbell, it is not fair to compare them.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Are you saying Ben wasn't really good until his 72nd start? Or even 50th start? How did he play in his first 36 games vs. Campbell? He was 13-0 as a rookie (and offensive rookie player of the year and SB winner the following year), and I don't care how you parse the stats to make the argument that Campbell is just as good. No one in their right mind can watch the two play and think they're on par with each other. For now, Ben is head and shoulders better. I like Campbell and hope he has a break-out season, but his play has been mediocre at best up to this point.

Thing is, Ben may never win another SB the rest of his career, and he still might end up as a legitimate, sure-fire hall of famer. However, suggesting he's already to the point where he transcends the other players on the field to win games is a gross exaggeration.

Let's face it, for the first two years of Roethlisberger's career, he wore unbelievably large training wheels. He was very, very good in the plays that he was asked to run those years, but he was rarely asked to carry the team. Maybe a drive here and there, but he wasn't the leader of the 2004-2005 Steelers, he was just a key component in their machine who was less mistake prone than Tommy Maddox.

Then, when they took the training wheels off, he kind of floundered like any young quarterback asked to lead. He sandwiched a pro bowl season in between two below average seasons. I don't know what that means. QB rating had him over 100+ in 2007, but his TD total was inflated by a lack of a goal line running game. He had his best season as a pro in 2007, but it wasn't some historic, pro-bowl year. It was merely the best he's done.

Look, the guy is an 8.1 Y/A playoff quarterback with an 87 rating. Those are excellent numbers. More importantly, his playoff performance is NOT out of line with his regular season performance. It's not like he goes to a totally different level in the playoffs. He's always been good. Of course, these very good numbers are only a small step above where Campbell is now. Given a small increase in his offensive environment, Campbell's is arguably already at this level.

[skinsfan69]

[quote=GTripp0012;563942]Thing is, Ben may never win another SB the rest of his career, and he still might end up as a legitimate, sure-fire hall of famer. However, suggesting he's already to the point where he transcends the other players on the field to win games is a gross exaggeration.

Let's face it, for the first two years of Roethlisberger's career, he wore unbelievably large training wheels. He was very, very good in the plays that he was asked to run those years, but he was rarely asked to carry the team. Maybe a drive here and there, but he wasn't the leader of the 2004-2005 Steelers, he was just a key component in their machine who was less mistake prone than Tommy Maddox.

Then, when they took the training wheels off, he kind of floundered like any young quarterback asked to lead. He sandwiched a pro bowl season in between two below average seasons. I don't know what that means. QB rating had him over 100+ in 2007, but his TD total was inflated by a lack of a goal line running game. He had his best season as a pro in 2007, but it wasn't some historic, pro-bowl year. It was merely the best he's done.

Look, the guy is an 8.1 Y/A playoff quarterback with an 87 rating. Those are excellent numbers. More importantly, his playoff performance is NOT out of line with his regular season performance. It's not like he goes to a totally different level in the playoffs. He's always been good. Of course, these very good numbers are only a small step above where Campbell is now. Given a small increase in his offensive environment, Campbell's is arguably already at this level.[/quote]

As I've mentioned before some QB's you just can't judge them by rating, comp. % and so on. Ben is one of those guys. For the most part he gets the job done when it matters. It may not look pretty but he makes enough plays for Pittsburgh's offense. I don't think he's an upper tier NFL Qb but right now he doesn't have to be. At this point he's a better QB than JC.