Thoughts on Halls New contract with SKINS

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I haven't seen him make half the bonehead moves (personal fouls) that Hall makes and is a hell of a lot cheaper + he can play.

He couldn't even start for the Lions...and he complained about it (for those thinking he's a golden boy)

He's cheaper because he's not as good

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

He couldn't even start for the Lions...and he complained about it (for those thinking he's a golden boy)

He's cheaper because he's not as good

We'll shall see how good Hall is. I'll remind you later.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

For those interested:

Scouts' Report on D. Hall

2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 83 | Key
Alert: None
Comment: Hall started 15-of-16 games last year. He's a very good athlete with adequate size. He's a quick-twitch athlete who can flip his hips and accelerate extremely well. He has a rare burst in his movements with very good confidence in his recovery skills. If he misses a jam, he does not stay in a trail position very long. He does an excellent job of mirroring all types of routes. He has the ability to maintain leverage on receivers downfield with some suddenness to undercut routes at the break points. He's very smooth with his speed turns and flips. He also has good solid route recognition and ball skills. He has very good ball awareness with good timing on his reach to break up or intercept passes. He has a knack for reading a receivers' body reaction with his back to the quarterback. Hall has long arms for his size and good vertical leaping ability to go up and adjust. When he's playing off he will often open his hips early. He doesn't stay in his pedal very long and he has had some trouble versus quick outs and hitches. He also has a tendency to bite on double moves because he is so aggressive. However, he has excellent reactions to screens and check downs. He closes hard and fast off his plant and drive. As a tackler, he doesn't always wrap up, but is an effective block tackler who can take out a runners' legs quickly with surprising closing quickness.

And Scouts' Report on Foxworth:

2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 67 | Key
Alert: None
Comment: Foxworth, a four-year veteran, is a backup who sees a lot of action as Denver's primary nickelback. He is a good athlete who has the quick feet and loose hips to smoothly turn and run with receivers. He's quick in transition and shows a good burst to close on the ball. He has a nice recovery burst to catch up when a receiver does manage to get a step on him downfield. He can extend the cushion with his backpedal and shows good route recognition from zone. He lacks ideal size and strength. He can be overpowered by bigger receivers and he isn't the strongest tackler in run support. He has improved his ability to locate the ball as a receiver reacts, but his ball skills still need some work. Foxworth seems on track to win a starting job somewhere in the near future, but his size limitations will prevent him from rising to elite status.

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

Given he's been to two pro bowls and had at least 5 ints in his last 3 sesons I would think so. He's not worth 22.5 mil but he's worth a hella alot more than the Foxworth contract.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

To me, these guys are identical players. And that's a lot of money for Foxworth as well.

I think the correct move would have been to wait this one out. Hall is part of a large glut of No. 2 corners available on the market this year, and inevitably, the ones that last the longest will be paid the least.

So by waiting it out, we could have saved 10-15 million in guaranteed money. This would have also forced us to accept that Hall might have got impatient and bolted. To me, that's an "oh well" kind of thing. But from Snyder's perspective, Hall is far more marketable to the Redskins than is Bodden or Bly (both local kids as well), and in this case the price of getting Hall over whoever the market left on the table was one year of Shawn Springs' career.

To me, that's not worth it, it kills our depth in the short term. To others on this form, I think the contract may be justifiable, especially if you don't see Springs as any loss at all.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

To me, these guys are identical players. And that's a lot of money for Foxworth as well.

I think the correct move would have been to wait this one out. Hall is part of a large glut of No. 2 corners available on the market this year, and inevitably, the ones that last the longest will be paid the least.

So by waiting it out, we could have saved 10-15 million in guaranteed money. This would have also forced us to accept that Hall might have got impatient and bolted. To me, that's an "oh well" kind of thing. But from Snyder's perspective, Hall is far more marketable to the Redskins than is Bodden or Bly (both local kids as well), and in this case the price of getting Hall over whoever the market left on the table was one year of Shawn Springs' career.

To me, that's not worth it, it kills our depth in the short term. To others on this form, I think the contract may be justifiable, especially if you don't see Springs as any loss at all.

vinny said someone else was offering him more money then what he signed here for.

[skinsfan_nn]

Originally Posted by That Guy

vinny said someone else was offering him more money then what he signed here for.

I saw the interview with Vinny and heard the same about multiple teams being interested. Not sure if Vinny said this or I read this but the Pats where in the mix for Halls services.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

Here's what I want to know:

We were negotiating with Hall for the past few weeks, but it was my understanding that the stumbling block was the fact that we wanted to give him $12-$14M in guarantees and he wanted $16M. So how in the HELL do we end up giving almost $10M more in guarantees than we were originally offering (and $6.5M more than he was asking for)???

This makes no sense whatsoever to me. Anyone who can explain, that would be great.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Here's what I want to know:

We were negotiating with Hall for the past few weeks, but it was my understanding that the stumbling block was the fact that we wanted to give him $12-$14M in guarantees and he wanted $16M. So how in the HELL do we end up giving almost $10M more in guarantees than we were originally offering (and $6.5M more than he was asking for)???

This makes no sense whatsoever to me. Anyone who can explain, that would be great.

Good question. Probably because no one of that was ever really true. JLC threw up speculation about 7 years, $48 million and some "reputable source" at ES said that word on the street was he was asking for $16 million. But the two sides didn't even start talking, really talking (as in talking dollars) last week at the combine. So the numbers that were being thrown around prior to that were speculation. Educated speculation I'm sure, but speculation nonetheless

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Good question. Probably because no one of that was ever really true. JLC threw up speculation about 7 years, $48 million and some "reputable source" at ES said that word on the street was he was asking for $16 million. But the two sides didn't even start talking, really talking (as in talking dollars) last week at the combine. So the numbers that were being thrown around prior to that were speculation. Educated speculation I'm sure, but speculation nonetheless

Yep, speculation that people took as gospel for whatever reason. Just goes to show that we're better off sticking with talking about what we know, not what we think we know.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Yep, speculation that people took as gospel for whatever reason. Just goes to show that we're better off sticking with talking about what we know, not what we think we know.

That, good sir, would be discriminatory, as I would have almost nothing left to say

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Here's what I want to know:

We were negotiating with Hall for the past few weeks, but it was my understanding that the stumbling block was the fact that we wanted to give him $12-$14M in guarantees and he wanted $16M. So how in the HELL do we end up giving almost $10M more in guarantees than we were originally offering (and $6.5M more than he was asking for)???

This makes no sense whatsoever to me. Anyone who can explain, that would be great.

Ive said this is exactly what would happen for weeks. If only the skins had listened to me, lol...

The skins grossly underestimated the market conditions. As free agency approached, teams started re-signing their own players and were paying them much more than anticipated. Then oakland signed Aso to a HUGE, but short term contract and that raised the price. If the skins had just given hall the 16M he wanted weeks ago, they wouldnt have been in this situation. However, they were refusing to budge from their offer of 12M and in the end, got screwed over for it. In the end, we had a choice to make:

1) Overpay for Hall, OR
2) Pay a less talented corner the same money Hall initially wanted.

We chose the latter. I think it was completely foolish to spend this much on Hall and Haynesworth. If we were going to get haynesworth, then we really didnt need a cornerback of halls level, especially when we had Rogers under contract.

But now its done so we might as well live with it. For what its worth, Halls contract is very similar to the one carolina gave Chris Gamble. They are both very similar corners in my opinion, so maybe the price we paid isnt too bad when viewed in that context.

Also, if theres no salary cap in 2010, then it doesnt really matter to me what kind of contracts these guys sign, as long as we can get all the guys we really needto fit under the cap in 2009.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Foxworth signed with the ravens for 16.5M garaunteed. We paid Hall 22.5M garaunteed. We paid almost 40% more for Hall. Do you guys think that Hall is that much better than foxworth? Is he worth the extra cash and cap hit?

Domonique Foxworth

My first thought... who the heck is Domonique Foxworth?

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

My first thought... who the heck is Domonique Foxworth?

Some local kid that went to Maryland I think.