For all you D Hall lovers

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by irish

Hall's history seems to show that he behaves himself until he signs that big contract then he turns into a different player, the one even terrible Oakland wouldnt put up with. I'm not sure if this will happen with the Skins but I'm not sure he's the kind of guy I'd drop a bunch of money on because history says its a mistake.

Yeah since Oakland is such a model franchise for a "bad" player to change. Actually if you are looking at "history" a terrible Randy Moss in Oakland went to a good locker room in NE and did very well (character-wise). It's funny how people forget that Sean Taylor was headed towards the wrong path, and changed for the better.

Unless Hall is an idiot with half a brain, I think he has learned his lesson after being humiliated by getting cut in Oakland.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Yeah since Oakland is such a model franchise for a "bad" player to change. Actually if you are looking at "history" a terrible Randy Moss in Oakland went to a good locker room in NE and did very well (character-wise). It's funny how people forget that Sean Taylor was headed towards the wrong path, and changed for the better.

Unless Hall is an idiot with half a brain, I think he has learned his lesson after being humiliated by getting cut in Oakland.

Like I mentioned, he only seems to go south once he gets paid. I'm not sure the organization has anything to do with it. The reason Moss cooled it in NE is that NE wins. Winning usually cures all problems. I hesitate to say this about ST because it did look like he was on his way down the good path but the journey had just started when he was killed so its hard to know how it would have turned out. Hall could be an idiot or maybe not. Most of these guys are idiots and I'm not sure he saw his cutting by Oak as a humilitation as I'm sure he believes it had nothing to do with his behavior and everything to do with Oak. All I'm saying is why take the chance with so much money and a questionable guy.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by irish

Like I mentioned, he only seems to go south once he gets paid. I'm not sure the organization has anything to do with it. The reason Moss cooled it in NE is that NE wins. Winning usually cures all problems. I hesitate to say this about ST because it did look like he was on his way down the good path but the journey had just started when he was killed so its hard to know how it would have turned out. Hall could be an idiot or maybe not. Most of these guys are idiots and I'm not sure he saw his cutting by Oak as a humilitation as I'm sure he believes it had nothing to do with his behavior and everything to do with Oak. All I'm saying is why take the chance with so much money and a questionable guy.

You make a great argument Irish. But I think the Skins are willing to take the chance. You could be right. I hope not. This argument could also be made for many FA's as history has shown. So what do we do? I think the Skins are willing to overlook his past in favor of his current talent. That's the only explenation I have. And like stated earlier he has shown maturity lately. If we offered him less than he's statistically worth and he walked would you be ok with that knowing the talent he brings?

[irish]

Originally Posted by 44ever

You make a great argument Irish. But I think the Skins are willing to take the chance. You could be right. I hope not. This argument could also be made for many FA's as history has shown. So what do we do? I think the Skins are willing to overlook his past in favor of his current talent. That's the only explenation I have. And like stated earlier he has shown maturity lately. If we offered him less than he's statistically worth and he walked would you be ok with that knowing the talent he brings?

I guess I think chances are taken with undrafted free agents or late round picks not high $ free agents. I would have a problem if he walked. I think the Skins need to learn to "get over" players. As an example Porter wanted big $ so Pgh wished him well and let Mia pay him. Did he play great for Mia, yes, but the Steelers had another great player waiting in the wings who played just as good (maybe even better) at a cheaper price. I know cheaper isnt what the Skins do (and the fans want "names" as well) but I think the organization would be better off if they adopted that mentality. For once I'd love to see the Skins have a guy out perform his contract.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by irish

I have no problem with him walking. What I'd like to see the Skins do is learn how to get over players. As an example, Porter wanted big $ from the Steelers so they wished him well and let Mia pay him. Did Porter play great for Mia, yes, but the Steelers had another great player waiting in the wings who played just as good (maybe even better) at a cheaper price. I know cheaper isnt what the Skins do (and the fans want "names" as well) but I think the organization would be better off if they adopted that mentality. For once I'd love to see the Skins have a guy out perform his contract.

Respected.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by irish

Like I mentioned, he only seems to go south once he gets paid. I'm not sure the organization has anything to do with it. The reason Moss cooled it in NE is that NE wins. Winning usually cures all problems. I hesitate to say this about ST because it did look like he was on his way down the good path but the journey had just started when he was killed so its hard to know how it would have turned out. Hall could be an idiot or maybe not. Most of these guys are idiots and I'm not sure he saw his cutting by Oak as a humilitation as I'm sure he believes it had nothing to do with his behavior and everything to do with Oak. All I'm saying is why take the chance with so much money and a questionable guy.

I respect your opinion and thanks for clarifying it. I feel that Hall was in two organizations (Atl and Oak) that were not known for having a good handle on its players. And yes, NE wins, but they also have a strong locker room and good veteran leadership. I don't think Oakland had that, and definitely Atlanta back then didn't have it. I think if Hall had not produced when we got him, then I would not agreed for this re-signing. But he produced, so we should give him a deal. I think given the Redskins attitude towards spending money, I feel that they will not go overboard with Hall. And I hope they are able to keep Rogers too. As I've repeatedly said, the success of both Hall and Rogers is tied to both of them being here in Washington.

Personally, if I were Rogers, I would stay, pad my number next year and hit free agency with the ability to sign for big money for another team. A CB tandem of Rogers and Hall for an entire season would be sick.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I respect your opinion and thanks for clarifying it. I feel that Hall was in two organizations (Atl and Oak) that were not known for having a good handle on its players. And yes, NE wins, but they also have a strong locker room and good veteran leadership. I don't think Oakland had that, and definitely Atlanta back then didn't have it. I think if Hall had not produced when we got him, then I would not agreed for this re-signing. But he produced, so we should give him a deal. I think given the Redskins attitude towards spending money, I feel that they will not go overboard with Hall. And I hope they are able to keep Rogers too. As I've repeatedly said, the success of both Hall and Rogers is tied to both of them being here in Washington.

Personally, if I were Rogers, I would stay, pad my number next year and hit free agency with the ability to sign for big money for another team. A CB tandem of Rogers and Hall for an entire season would be sick.

Hall did perform but only for about a half season and like I mentioned it was in an effort to get a big payday. I'd like to see him perform over a longer period of time before spending big $ on him. Since when do the Redskins not go overboard when spending $? When they want someone they always go overboard. Its the Skins M. O. If Wash is the only place where Hall & Rogers can succeed then its further proof to me that they should not be resigned.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by irish

Hall did perform but only for about a half season and like I mentioned it was in an effort to get a big payday. I'd like to see him perform over a longer period of time before spending big $ on him. Since when do the Redskins not go overboard when spending $? When they want someone they always go overboard. Its the Skins M. O. If Wash is the only place where Hall & Rogers can succeed then its further proof to me that they should not be resigned.

I agree with the first part but just because hall and rogers can succeed with the Skins could also mean they are comfortable with the team coaches, players, schemes ect... I believe both of them could play well with other teams but Hall really seems to thrive here. Because they play well here is not a reason to cut them. IMO.

Rogers should be kept for his ability to cover big name recievers. He may not have the best hand but I'll take a tipped pass over a completion any day. He also keeps the QB looking for alternative recievers. He can shut down guys like TO, Fitzgerald and the like because of his coverage abilities.

Hall should be kept because of his ability to read the D and close quikly on recievers with great hands for INT's

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by irish

Hall did perform but only for about a half season and like I mentioned it was in an effort to get a big payday. I'd like to see him perform over a longer period of time before spending big $ on him. Since when do the Redskins not go overboard when spending $? When they want someone they always go overboard. Its the Skins M. O. If Wash is the only place where Hall & Rogers can succeed then its further proof to me that they should not be resigned.

Well they when they were negotiating with DJ Hackett, Washington was very tight with money. Granted that it wasn't a big time player or something like that, but back in the days, the team would have overpaid for Hackett (or make the trade for Chad Johnson happen).

Unfortunately you don't get more time to watch Hall play, his contract is up and if we don't re-sign him then he walks away. You say that he performed well to get paid, well then would you have signed him if he had not performed? I just don't get when people say that. The team is going to have to re-sign either Hall this year or Rogers next year. I think they make a good CB tandem, and there's nothing wrong with one good player complimenting the other (referring to your last line).

I personally haven't seen anything GREAT from Rogers to re-sign before his contract is up. But with him the team has the luxury to wait another year. Whereas with Hall, the team doesn't. I think for the right price, it is worth keeping Hall, and wait and see what happens with Rogers.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well they when they were negotiating with DJ Hackett, Washington was very tight with money. Granted that it wasn't a big time player or something like that, but back in the days, the team would have overpaid for Hackett (or make the trade for Chad Johnson happen).

Unfortunately you don't get more time to watch Hall play, his contract is up and if we don't re-sign him then he walks away. You say that he performed well to get paid, well then would you have signed him if he had not performed? I just don't get when people say that. The team is going to have to re-sign either Hall this year or Rogers next year. I think they make a good CB tandem, and there's nothing wrong with one good player complimenting the other (referring to your last line).

I personally haven't seen anything GREAT from Rogers to re-sign before his contract is up. But with him the team has the luxury to wait another year. Whereas with Hall, the team doesn't. I think for the right price, it is worth keeping Hall, and wait and see what happens with Rogers.

One incident does not a trend make. If they had really wanted Hackett they would have paid him but they didnt do they didnt. They always pay guys they want. The key phrase in your post is "for the right price its worth keeping Hall". I agree with that but I'm not counting on the Skins to get the price right. They will overpay him (as usual) and if I have to make a bet I bet he will underperform and live up to his past history. I hope I am wrong about the history part but I know I am right about the overpay part.

[Son Of Man]

Letting a 25 year old former Pro-Bowl cover corner with legit 4.2 speed would be stupid. I applaud the franchise for getting him mid season and for pushing to sign him to a long-term deal. Let's not forget, before the whole ATL debacle, people were calling him one of the best in the NFL after shutting down TO (while with the Eagles and at the top of his game) on Monday Night Football. Hall came in mid season and unseated Rogers while Rogers was having his best season as a pro. Get real, he'll be our #1 corner that we've been missing since Bailey left....and he's from VA!