Ramsey

That Guy · 11-22-2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defensewins

because he is certainly not playing like Brett Farve, P. Manning, Vick, Brees, Culpepper. Tom Brady, Brian Griese, Trent Green or Marc Bulger.

Even rookie Ben Roethlesberger is playing a million times better. I suprised to hear a loyal Ramsey fan on this websight say right now they would rather have Ramsey than Ben Roethlesberger. Really?
rookie

ramsey wasn't the #1 pick, he was #32, he's had two completely different systems and only started 17 games... in three years most of those other guys played in one system... brees was awful last year, but after being in the system for 3 years (and getting more weapons) he's doing much better... griese wasn't anything special last year, and vick missed 12 games and got his coach fired (not his fault)...

and honestly, if ramsey was put in the middle of the steelers talent, he'd be doing much better right now, their WRs and TEs are better than ours and they can win short yardage nearly every single time... either way, ben played like crap yesterday (and lost 54 yards to sacks), but other playmakers stepped up and covered for him (and they have 2-4 other playmakers on that O)... only CP is capable of doing that here... and our Oline isn't helping them as much as anyone would like...

Redskins_P · 11-22-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

ramsey wasn't the #1 pick, he was #32, he's had two completely different systems and only started 17 games... in three years most of those other guys played in one system... brees was awful last year, but after being in the system for 3 years (and getting more weapons) he's doing much better... griese wasn't anything special last year, and vick missed 12 games and got his coach fired (not his fault)...

and honestly, if ramsey was put in the middle of the steelers talent, he'd be doing much better right now, their WRs and TEs are better than ours and they can win short yardage nearly every single time... either way, ben played like crap yesterday (and lost 54 yards to sacks), but other playmakers stepped up and covered for him (and they have 2-4 other playmakers on that O)... only CP is capable of doing that here... and our Oline isn't helping them as much as anyone would like...

I agree

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-22-2004, 01:50 PM

Oh Jesus, I'm sensing a a call for another roster overhaul.

QB, WR, etc. When are we finally going to work with what we have and make a few small moves and try to bring consistency?

SC, since you apparently do not like Ramsey, our recieving corps, and have identified 8 or so positions that need to be overhauled, what exactly is your plan to improve our roster? You criticize Snyder for his free agency binges, but it seems like that is exactly what you are calling for.

wolfeskins · 11-22-2004, 09:33 PM

I, for one, am not completly sold on ben hambooger yet. seems like just yesterday when the steelers had a superstar who went by the name "SLASH".
he was the greatest thing, defenses didn't know what to do, he could leap tall buildings in a single bound, he was KORDELL STEWART. he sucked then and he sucks now. Ben looks good now but lets see if he still looks good in 2 or 3 years.
I'll take patrick over ben. ben plays for a better team but ramsey is a better qb.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-22-2004, 09:37 PM

I have to wait and see how Roethlisberger does throughout the next 16 games. Sometimes, a new QB comes in and he looks great until defenses figure him out and pound him.

But, he looks like the real deal right now; he's got size, speed, an arm, accuracy, and just about everything a QB stud needs.

That Guy · 11-23-2004, 02:06 AM

yeah, i'm not taking anything away from roeth, but i watched him yesterday, and he is NOT the reason they beat the bengals... they can run duce and bettis all day against just about anyone, thats the really scary part of that team... having a good passing game on top of that though? ouch...

still, they'll be down a starting WR when we play them... I'll take whatever i can get.

MTK · 11-23-2004, 09:27 AM

Ben has played very well this year especially for a rookie, but you guys hit the nail on the head. Look at what he's got around him, a great line, two starter quality RB's, quality WR's and an established system and coaching staff.

Redskins_P · 11-23-2004, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Ben has played very well this year especially for a rookie, but you guys hit the nail on the head. Look at what he's got around him, a great line, two starter quality RB's, quality WR's and an established system and coaching staff.

Yeah, a coaching staff that has been there for more than 10 years. What Ben has is a foundation around him and he's making the most out of it. Ramsey is on his 2nd coaching staff in 3 years. If we can just try to be a little more patient maybe we can build something similar here. Continuity is huge in this league. Look at the Patriots for example, shoot look at the freaking Eagles. McNabb has been in the same system for about 4 years now. Look how much he has evolved as a QB.

Patience my friends, patience.

CrazyCanuck · 11-23-2004, 02:57 PM

I thought Ramsey played really well. Granted he wasn't asked to do much, but he didn't force anything or make too many mistakes. He also looked calm in the pocket. While he did overthrow on a couple plays, there were also a few passes where he put the ball in a great spot where only his guy could get it. I remember thinking to myself - "If Brunnell had made that pass it would have been picked for sure."

The playcalling didn't allow him to throw downfield often, but it's hard to blame Gibbs for keeping a short leash. It's his first start of the season and he's playing in Philly against the best team in the NFC. I mean what woulda happened if he came out firing and threw 4 picks? Not exactly a confidence booster for him or the team. Not to mention I'd probably be reading a bunch of "Brees or Kitna" threads right now.

I think as Ramsey becomes more comfortable and Gibbs gains confidence in him he'll start letting him throw deep more often. Right now PR has to focus on the basics and not making mistakes, which he did well this week. In fact this is the exact type of game I thought we'd be seeing from Brunell this year.

sportscurmudgeon · 11-23-2004, 03:29 PM

smootsmack:

Hall of Fame destiny for 20 starters is hyperbole. Mea culpa

But we have had folks here use the word "great" with Sultan McCullogh. I don't think so.

We have folks who say our wide receivers are in the top 3 or 5 in the league - - except they don't seem to score. And that is indeed the objective of playing offense in the NFL.

We have a "beast" at safety who is an "intimidator". Those aren't my words; those are the accolades of others. I have yet to see any opposing offensive player cower in fear at the line of scrimmage. And I've seen our intimidating beast chase as many opponents into the end zone as I've seen him do much of anything else.

Patrick Ramsey's QB stats compare favorably with Brett Farve and Peyton Manning - with the clear implication that he is going to be that good. I hope so. But I doubt it.

Last year's defensive line was just fine, remember? Some folks here thought that Darryl Russell could be an All-Pro. Not happening any time soon.

Remember how the speed of Trung Canidate was going to befuddle opposing defensive coordinators?

How about Rock Cartwright as the bruising power runner that can always get you the short yardage you need.

The fact is that people here fall in love with players because they are wearing Redskin uniforms. That's fine. But the reality is that a lot of these guys are really pretty mediocre and they're not great and they're not warriors and they're not beasts and they're not intimidating. In fact, on their off days they are striving to perform at a barely acceptable level.

Yes, I used hyperbole. But it is not significantly worse than the tons of praise heaped on parts of this team that really need to be upgraded a whole lot.

SkinsRock · 11-23-2004, 03:45 PM

SC, the points you make about most of the players being mediocre or unproven could be made about ANY team. We tend to build up Skins players because we are Skins fans. Fans of other teams do the same thing. That's part of being a fan. That said, you are correct in that any team is basically as good as their record, regardless of their talent level. The Chiefs are 3-7 just like us, but most experts still say their better than that. Well, right now, they're not.
Ramsey has great potential...that's why he was drafted in the 1st round. Has he lived up to it? Hell no...not yet at least. Will he? Nobody knows. People just tend to get excited about players, and when others bash them, they do whatever they can to build them up, or at least to show that they are on a similar pace as others that have acheived greatness. Does this mean they will? Not necessarily, but it certainly shows that the potential is still there.

11-23-2004, 03:29 PM	#40
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	smootsmack: Hall of Fame destiny for 20 starters is hyperbole. Mea culpa But we have had folks here use the word "great" with Sultan McCullogh. I don't think so. We have folks who say our wide receivers are in the top 3 or 5 in the league - - except they don't seem to score. And that is indeed the objective of playing offense in the NFL. We have a "beast" at safety who is an "intimidator". Those aren't my words; those are the accolades of others. I have yet to see any opposing offensive player cower in fear at the line of scrimmage. And I've seen our intimidating beast chase as many opponents into the end zone as I've seen him do much of anything else. Patrick Ramsey's QB stats compare favorably with Brett Farve and Peyton Manning - with the clear implication that he is going to be that good. I hope so. But I doubt it. Last year's defensive line was just fine, remember? Some folks here thought that Darryl Russell could be an All-Pro. Not happening any time soon. Remember how the speed of Trung Canidate was going to befuddle opposing defensive coordinators? How about Rock Cartwright as the bruising power runner that can always get you the short yardage you need. The fact is that people here fall in love with players because they are wearing Redskin uniforms. That's fine. But the reality is that a lot of these guys are really pretty mediocre and they're not great and they're not warriors and they're not beasts and they're not intimidating. In fact, on their off days they are striving to perform at a barely acceptable level. Yes, I used hyperbole. But it is not significantly worse than the tons of praise heaped on parts of this team that really need to be upgraded a whole lot. __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

11-22-2004, 01:50 PM	#33
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 8,317	Oh Jesus, I'm sensing a a call for another roster overhaul. QB, WR, etc. When are we finally going to work with what we have and make a few small moves and try to bring consistency? SC, since you apparently do not like Ramsey, our recieving corps, and have identified 8 or so positions that need to be overhauled, what exactly is your plan to improve our roster? You criticize Snyder for his free agency binges, but it seems like that is exactly what you are calling for.

11-22-2004, 09:33 PM	#34
wolfeskins The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: chesapeake,va. Posts: 2,160	I, for one, am not completly sold on ben hambooger yet. seems like just yesterday when the steelers had a superstar who went by the name "SLASH". he was the greatest thing, defenses didn't know what to do, he could leap tall buildings in a single bound, he was KORDELL STEWART. he sucked then and he sucks now. Ben looks good now but lets see if he still looks good in 2 or 3 years. I'll take patrick over ben. ben plays for a better team but ramsey is a better qb.

11-22-2004, 09:37 PM	#35
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 8,317	I have to wait and see how Roethlisberger does throughout the next 16 games. Sometimes, a new QB comes in and he looks great until defenses figure him out and pound him. But, he looks like the real deal right now; he's got size, speed, an arm, accuracy, and just about everything a QB stud needs.

11-23-2004, 02:06 AM	#36
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,620	yeah, i'm not taking anything away from roeth, but i watched him yesterday, and he is NOT the reason they beat the bengals... they can run duce and bettis all day against just about anyone, thats the really scary part of that team... having a good passing game on top of that though? ouch... still, they'll be down a starting WR when we play them... I'll take whatever i can get.

11-23-2004, 09:27 AM	#37
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,846	Ben has played very well this year especially for a rookie, but you guys hit the nail on the head. Look at what he's got around him, a great line, two starter quality RB's, quality WR's and an established system and coaching staff.

11-23-2004, 02:57 PM	#39
CrazyCanuck Serenity Now Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,008	I thought Ramsey played really well. Granted he wasn't asked to do much, but he didn't force anything or make too many mistakes. He also looked calm in the pocket. While he did overthrow on a couple plays, there were also a few passes where he put the ball in a great spot where only his guy could get it. I remember thinking to myself - "If Brunnell had made that pass it would have been picked for sure." The playcalling didn't allow him to throw downfield often, but it's hard to blame Gibbs for keeping a short leash. It's his first start of the season and he's playing in Philly against the best team in the NFC. I mean what woulda happened if he came out firing and threw 4 picks? Not exactly a confidence booster for him or the team. Not to mention I'd probably be reading a bunch of "Brees or Kitna" threads right now. I think as Ramsey becomes more comfortable and Gibbs gains confidence in him he'll start letting him throw deep more often. Right now PR has to focus on the basics and not making mistakes, which he did well this week. In fact this is the exact type of game I thought we'd be seeing from Brunell this year.

11-23-2004, 03:45 PM	#41
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	SC, the points you make about most of the players being mediocre or unproven could be made about ANY team. We tend to build up Skins players because we are Skins fans. Fans of other teams do the same thing. That's part of being a fan. That said, you are correct in that any team is basically as good as their record, regardless of their talent level. The Chiefs are 3-7 just like us, but most experts still say their better than that. Well, right now, they're not. Ramsey has great potential...that's why he was drafted in the 1st round. Has he lived up to it? Hell no...not yet at least. Will he? Nobody knows. People just tend to get excited about players, and when others bash them, they do whatever they can to build them up, or at least to show that they are on a similar pace as others that have acheived greatness. Does this mean they will? Not necessarily, but it certainly shows that the potential is still there.

Ramsey

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