Riley steps down as Heat coach

[SmootSmack]

Stan Van Gundy's head coaching career at Miami shouldn't be seen as only the 11-10 record just before he "resigned"

I believe his first year he coaching the Heat went from 25 wins to 42 wins, the next year they won a conference high 59 games and took the Pistons to a game 7 in the Eastern Conference finals.

Finally, that 11-10 start. It should be noted that Shaq missed 18 of those games due to injury.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Stan Van Gundy's head coaching career at Miami shouldn't be seen as only the 11-10 record just before he "resigned"

I believe his first year he coaching the Heat went from 25 wins to 42 wins, the next year they won a conference high 59 games and took the Pistons to a game 7 in the Eastern Conference finals.

Finally, that 11-10 start. It should be noted that Shaq missed 18 of those games due to injury.

Not to metion the job he did with the Magic this year. If they keep those guys together, they're going to very good for years to come. Ron Jeremy (Stan Van Gundy) is a solid coach.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Stan Van Gundy's head coaching career at Miami shouldn't be seen as only the 11-10 record just before he "resigned"

I believe his first year he coaching the Heat went from 25 wins to 42 wins, the next year they won a conference high 59 games and took the Pistons to a game 7 in the Eastern Conference finals.

Finally, that 11-10 start. It should be noted that Shaq missed 18 of those games due to injury.

That's one of the problems, they were widely regarded as the best in the East, and they were picked to win it all...so the perception (right or wrong) was that they should have won it all and didn't (not even close actually). So a slow start meant the writing was on the wall.
Fact is, Riley did what Van Gundy couldn't / didn't do, and Riley did it with less talent IMO.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

That's one of the problems, they were widely regarded as the best in the East, and they were picked to win it all...so the perception (right or wrong) was that they should have won it all and didn't (not even close actually). So a slow start meant the writing was on the wall.
Fact is, Riley did what Van Gundy couldn't / didn't do, and Riley did it with less talent IMO.

It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. Am I on your ignore list or something?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. Am I on your ignore list or something?

Yes, I responded to you.

You are trying to say that Van Gundy took the Heat to the conference finals...well that wasn't good enough. That's what I'm saying. That was considered a failure, not a success. You are implying it was a success.

Again, Riley took them to the finals with less talent, Van Gundy had more talent and couldn't take them to the finals.

So did I misinterpret you or something?

It takes a lot for me to put someone on the ignore list. A LOT! (only 1 in all the time I've been here)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Yes, I responded to you.

You are trying to say that Van Gundy took the Heat to the conference finals...well that wasn't good enough. That's what I'm saying. That was considered a failure, not a success. You are implying it was a success.

Again, Riley took them to the finals with less talent, Van Gundy had more talent and couldn't take them to the finals.

So did I misinterpret you or something?

It takes a lot for me to put someone on the ignore list. A LOT! (only 1 in all the time I've been here)

I don't see how Riley took them with less talent. Van Gundy got them from 25 wins to 42 wins to 59 wins (and a game 7 conference finals loss). Then the next season he was fired after 21 games in spite of the fact that Shaq (probably the most dominant player in the game at the time) missed 18 of those games.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't see how Riley took them with less talent.

I believe Eddie Jones and Damon Jones (.432 3 pt%) to be better players than Jason Williams, and Antoine Walker for instance. Walker was probably THE most overrated player I ever saw in my entire life, and possibly the most overrated player in history.
Van Gundy had better role players. I am still surprised a team with Payton on it won it all. Then again, Gary took a major back seat role with Riley, so that's a good reason.

Van Gundy got them from 25 wins to 42 wins to 59 wins (and a game 7 conference finals loss).

Riley took them from 32 to 42 to 61...what's your point?
Point is, Van Gundy SHOULD have won it all, and he didn't. It took Riley's coaching ability to get it done no matter how you want to slice it.

Then the next season he was fired after 21 games in spite of the fact that Shaq (probably the most dominant player in the game at the time) missed 18 of those games.

Shaq only averaged 20.0 and 9.2 boards that season. He also had a pathetic 46.9% FT percentage. Also had 2.8 turnovers a game on average (high for a center), and a very high 3.9 fouls per game. It's not like Chicago losing Jordan, or the Celts losing Bird, or LA losing Magic...or even Kobe. I understand the point, but Van Gundy still had an unstoppable Wade.

Again, Van Gundy's heat was EXPECTED to win it all, and underacheived, while Riley actually won it all. Can't really complain about that. If we kicked Gibbs out after say a 5-5 season, and hired anyone and that coach took us to a SB victory, I would care less that we fired Gibbs regardless of circumstance. EVERY decision a team makes should have one goal in it's sights...winning it all. Riley did it, Van Gundy didn't. It's that simple. And it's not like Van Gundy didn't have his shot. He did, and blew it.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I believe Eddie Jones and Damon Jones (.432 3 pt%) to be better players than Jason Williams, and Antoine Walker for instance. Walker was probably THE most overrated player I ever saw in my entire life, and possibly the most overrated player in history.
Van Gundy had better role players. I am still surprised a team with Payton on it won it all. Then again, Gary took a major back seat role with Riley, so that's a good reason.

Ok, well that's just your opinion versus mine

Riley took them from 32 to 42 to 61...what's your point?
Point is, Van Gundy SHOULD have won it all, and he didn't. It took Riley's coaching ability to get it done no matter how you want to slice it.

I wasn't knocking Riley's coaching abilities, just saying don't ignore what Van Gundy had accomplished and wasn't given the opportunity to complete

Shaq only averaged 20.0 and 9.2 boards that season. He also had a pathetic 46.9% FT percentage. Also had 2.8 turnovers a game on average (high for a center), and a very high 3.9 fouls per game. It's not like Chicago losing Jordan, or the Celts losing Bird, or LA losing Magic...or even Kobe. I understand the point, but Van Gundy still had an unstoppable Wade.

Not so much now, but back then just Shaq's mere presence on the court made his teammates better

Again, Van Gundy's heat was EXPECTED to win it all, and underacheived, while Riley actually won it all. Can't really complain about that. If we kicked Gibbs out after say a 5-5 season, and hired anyone and that coach took us to a SB victory, I would care less that we fired Gibbs regardless of circumstance. EVERY decision a team makes should have one goal in it's sights...winning it all. Riley did it, Van Gundy didn't. It's that simple. And it's not like Van Gundy didn't have his shot. He did, and blew it.

Fine. But if Zorn took us to an OT loss in the NFC championship game this year and then next year we get off to a 5-5 start with Portis missing 8 of the games and then fire Zorn, I think it'd be ridiculous to say Zorn was a failure or underachiever