Dying Girl Denied Chance To Visit Father

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Do the guidelines need to be changed then?

In my opinion, no. We have guidelines in place for a good reason and we don't make decisions hastily when confronted with issues like these. People may not agree with the rules we have in place, but they are necessary in order to maintain fairness when dealing with all inmates, not just a select few.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

In my opinion, no. We have guidelines in place for a good reason and we don't make decisions hastily when confronted with issues like these. People may not agree with the rules we have in place, but they are necessary in order to maintain fairness when dealing with all inmates, not just a select few.

It's an unenviable position to be in, I'm sure. I completely understand what you're saying about a precedent being set.

Still, it's hard not to sympathize with the girl.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

In my opinion, no. We have guidelines in place for a good reason and we don't make decisions hastily when confronted with issues like these. People may not agree with the rules we have in place, but they are necessary in order to maintain fairness when dealing with all inmates, not just a select few.

I 100% agree with you LB.

Sure, you feel for the dying girl, but you have to understand that it's the HORRIBLE acts of the father that put them in this situation. So if they make an exception for this guy, where do they stop making exceptions? People need to stop blaming others for their problems...those family members should look at that father and tell him what a worthless peice of poo he is for doing this kind of thing to his daughter. It's 100% the father's fault. Not the system, not the lawyer, not the jury, it's all the father's fault. No one should blame anyone but him.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I 100% agree with you LB.

Sure, you feel for the dying girl, but you have to understand that it's the HORRIBLE acts of the father that put them in this situation. So if they make an exception for this guy, where do they stop making exceptions? People need to stop blaming others for their problems...those family members should look at that father and tell him what a worthless peice of poo he is for doing this kind of thing to his daughter. It's 100% the father's fault. Not the system, not the lawyer, not the jury, it's all the father's fault. No one should blame anyone but him.

Well, I couldn't find it in the article. I know it was drug related, but I'd like to know what exactly he did that was HORRIBLE.

LB, I hope you don't think I was trying to put you on the spot with this thread.

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, I couldn't find it in the article. I know it was drug related, but I'd like to know what exactly he did that was HORRIBLE.

LB, I hope you don't think I was trying to put you on the spot with this thread.

If he was convicted of Federal drug charges, then I would think he was a major player in the distribution of controlled substances. We're not talking about being busted for a small bag of marijuana. When the DEA comes knocking on your door, then you know you're in some pretty big doo doo.

I don't feel put on the spot. I wish I were in a position where I could shed a bit more light on how the federal prison system works. However, I only work at the lowly state level, so my knowledge is very limited. If memory serves, someone else here has mentioned working within the federal prison system in the past. Maybe they can offer a more educated opinion than I can.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, I couldn't find it in the article. I know it was drug related, but I'd like to know what exactly he did that was HORRIBLE.

LB, I hope you don't think I was trying to put you on the spot with this thread.

I assume then you think anything related to drugs is OK then? And even worse, someone related to meth (as someone pointed out). Meth is a disgusting drug, and like LB said, it wasn't a bag of weed.
He's in jail for a reason, and he deserves to be in jail, and it's not cause what he did was a light offense.

People need to pay the consequences of thier actions. I am shocked at how many people are willing to look the other way at his offenses and break the rules for this guy.

[jamf]

Jsarno, I think you are reading a little too much into the article.
He was convicted on Methamphetamine charges. I don't know if he sold or used but I wouldn't categorize a Meth charge as a HORRIBLE act.
Also, I never read in the article where he blamed anyone other than himself.

Major players don't get 5 years. I have an uncle that was a player down in Jsarnos area and he is serving 25 to life.

With that said, This guy has completed over 90% of his sentence in a minimum security prison. He is going to be released in August to a halfway house. They are not asking to give the father a break, They are simply asking for compassion for a dying little girl.

My personal opinion is that he should not get released for an extended period of time but a few days, Maybe a weekend while staying at a halfway house.
If his last name was Hilton, He would've been out 2.5 years ago.



They let inmates out for funerals, I think saying goodbye to the child while she is living is more important than going to her funeral which he would be released for.

Another Article with a little more information

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I 100% agree with you LB.

Sure, you feel for the dying girl, but you have to understand that it's the HORRIBLE acts of the father that put them in this situation. So if they make an exception for this guy, where do they stop making exceptions? People need to stop blaming others for their problems...those family members should look at that father and tell him what a worthless peice of poo he is for doing this kind of thing to his daughter. It's 100% the father's fault. Not the system, not the lawyer, not the jury, it's all the father's fault. No one should blame anyone but him.

I did not expect to hear this from you for 2 reasons.

1. You have lost a child.

2. You openly acknowlege that some forms of usage are OK.

I cannot fathom how you believe that his acts are horrible, but yours are not.

I am not picking on you or trying to piss you off, but it sounds like hypocracy to me. I know that I do not need to say this, but please explain your point of view on this matter.

Originally Posted by jsarno

I assume then you think anything related to drugs is OK then? And even worse, someone related to meth (as someone pointed out). Meth is a disgusting drug, and like LB said, it wasn't a bag of weed.
He's in jail for a reason, and he deserves to be in jail, and it's not cause what he did was a light offense.

People need to pay the consequences of thier actions. I am shocked at how many people are willing to look the other way at his offenses and break the rules for this guy.

Edit. I posted that befor I saw this^.

Ok, so because he is such a horrible person for selling a much more disgusting drug, his daughter should not be granted her death wish?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by angryssg

I did not expect to hear this from you for 2 reasons.

1. You have lost a child.

2. You openly acknowlege that some forms of usage are OK.

I cannot fathom how you believe that his acts are horrible, but yours are not.

I am not picking on you or trying to piss you off, but it sounds like hypocracy to me. I know that I do not need to say this, but please explain your point of view on this matter.



Edit. I posted that befor I saw this^.

Ok, so because he is such a horrible person for selling a much more disgusting drug, his daughter should not be granted her death wish?

It's not about his daughter, it's about him. That's what people are not seeing. I already explained I feel for the daughter, but it's the sins of the father that need to be punished.
Also, while I do feel weed should be legal, if I was caught with it, I would expect there to be consequences. You can't expect to do illegal things then be able to do what you want.
I have also explained in other threads that God put marijuana on this planet for a reason, it's due to ignorance that it's illegal.
Meth on the other hand is a concoction of man, and it's amazingly addictive and kills people. It ruins people's lives. How many people has this man indirectly killed? How many people's lives has he ruined with the Meth he sold them?

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by jsarno

It's not about his daughter, it's about him. That's what people are not seeing. I already explained I feel for the daughter, but it's the sins of the father that need to be punished.
Also, while I do feel weed should be legal, if I was caught with it, I would expect there to be consequences. You can't expect to do illegal things then be able to do what you want.
I have also explained in other threads that God put marijuana on this planet for a reason, it's due to ignorance that it's illegal.
Meth on the other hand is a concoction of man, and it's amazingly addictive and kills people. It ruins people's lives. How many people has this man indirectly killed? How many people's lives has he ruined with the Meth he sold them?

I concur

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by jsarno

It's not about his daughter, it's about him. That's what people are not seeing. I already explained I feel for the daughter, but it's the sins of the father that need to be punished.

Sorry, this IS about the daughter. Yes, the "sins of the father" need to be punished. As far as I can tell, he is still subject to the sentence he is currently serving, and no one (to my knowledge) is suggesting that his sentence be commuted or that he be paroled. Rather, there is desire by some members of the family to expedite a change in the terms of his incarceration - a change that is due to occur and, as I stated earlier, will create a benefit for an innocent member of the public (the man is scheduled to enter the facility in something like 60 days).

The daughter, who has done no wrong, is being denied a means by which her suffering can be eased - that denial is being done by the State. True, a benefit will accrue to the criminal by the nature of the benefit given to the innocent. So what? the criminal will still be punished by serving his term. Instead, and as I have said earlier, in addition to carrying out the State's mandated punishment, the State can demonstrate that mercy is an element of governance.

Originally Posted by jsarno

Meth on the other hand is a concoction of man, and it's amazingly addictive and kills people. It ruins people's lives. How many people has this man indirectly killed? How many people's lives has he ruined with the Meth he sold them?

And so, the State should contribute to the suffering of one more innocent harmed by this man's dealing of meth?

The father has been and will be continue to be punished by the knowledge that he has been unable to be with his daughter during her time of need (as he continues to serve the final 10 months of his incarceration). Now, on her deathbed, the daughter desires something that the State can grant without compromising the punishment of the criminal. I, for one, think the State should do what it can do to ease her suffering. (You have suggested that the family should blame the father - fine, they may very well be doing so. Perhaps, however, they are more focused on creating a solution for the child and saving there recriminiations until after her death - at which time they will all have a lifetime to hate him).

Rules are rules - we cannot ignore them nor should we have too much compassion for those who break them. At the same time, a slavish dedication to and a merciless application of rules creates a heartless society that ultimately forgets that the rules serve the society, not vice versa.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The daughter, who has done no wrong, is being denied a means by which her suffering can be eased - that denial is being done by the State.

See, this is where we differ. You see it from HER perspective, but in actuality, she is not being denied a thing, he is. She is not bound by any rules, she did nothing wrong. The rules are applying to him, and him only. The fact that the rules are being applied to him means the ones that he loves, and the ones that love him will suffer some, but that's the price that they all pay because of what he did. To ignore the rules or bend them for someone like him means you need to do it for everyone that asks. Are you prepared for that?

I, for one, think the State should do what it can do to ease her suffering.

I don't see why...they are not bound to her in any way. The state has custody of the father, and rightfully so, they have no responsibility to the daughter, and should not be put in this situation.

Rules are rules - we cannot ignore them nor should we have too much compassion for those who break them. At the same time, a slavish dedication to and a merciless application of rules creates a heartless society that ultimately forgets that the rules serve the society, not vice versa.

That's a profound statement, and you are right for the most part. You just need to remember that when you give and inch, people want a mile. There are rules for a reason, and they do not say anything about allowing the father to see his daughter. Rules do serve society, and in this case rules dictate that he not leave prison.
Do you realize that it does cost tax dollars to allow him to leave the prison? I for one do not want my tax dollars going to help a criminal feel a little better about himself.
Again, this is not about the daughter, this is about him.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by jsarno

It's not about his daughter, it's about him. That's what people are not seeing. I already explained I feel for the daughter, but it's the sins of the father that need to be punished.
Also, while I do feel weed should be legal, if I was caught with it, I would expect there to be consequences. You can't expect to do illegal things then be able to do what you want.
I have also explained in other threads that God put marijuana on this planet for a reason, it's due to ignorance that it's illegal.
Meth on the other hand is a concoction of man, and it's amazingly addictive and kills people. It ruins people's lives. How many people has this man indirectly killed? How many people's lives has he ruined with the Meth he sold them?

I must say that I disagree with you and will not budge from my position just as you will not budge from yours. I feel that she should be able to spend her remaining time with her father. Then he should go back and finish his debt to society.

This is one of those instances where political BS can be put aside and an execption to policy should be made. The man is not looking for a pass to go out on the town to pay a conjugal visit to the hookers in Vegas, he is going to spend final quality time with his daughter.

I'm done with this topic.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by angryssg

I must say that I disagree with you and will not budge from my position just as you will not budge from yours. I feel that she should be able to spend her remaining time with her father. Then he should go back and finish his debt to society.

This is one of those instances where political BS can be put aside and an execption to policy should be made. The man is not looking for a pass to go ot on the town to pay a conjugal visit to the hookers in Vegas, he is going to spend final quality time with his daughter.

I'm done with this topic.

I agree.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by angryssg

I must say that I disagree with you and will not budge from my position just as you will not budge from yours. I feel that she should be able to spend her remaining time with her father. Then he should go back and finish his debt to society.

This is one of those instances where political BS can be put aside and an execption to policy should be made. The man is not looking for a pass to go out on the town to pay a conjugal visit to the hookers in Vegas, he is going to spend final quality time with his daughter.

I'm done with this topic.

I understand your points, and I have always respected your opinions.
But it leaves me with three questions that no one can seem to answer.
1- Why does he deserve to spend quality time with his daughter?
2- What happens when the serial rapist and murderers decide they need to go see a dying relative too? Once you set that precident, then what? Where is the line drawn?
3- (or more a 2b question) Did anyone call the families of who this guy sold meth to, to ask thier opinions? I can safely assume there are plenty of families out there that he ruined...maybe some daughter / son out there without a father, or some family in shambles due to this guy selling that drug...did anyone ask them if it was OK that this dealer should be allowed out to see his daughter die?
What if it was you? (a general hypothetical question) What if your wife had an addiction to meth and it ruined her and your life, and it trickled down to your kids, would you be so easy to forgive and forget and allow this guy one ounce of leniancy? What if your kids took it, and it killed one of them...would you still be able to say, "sure, let this guy see his daugher"? I hope none of you has ever gone through that, but I am willing to wager that if someone did go through that, they would not be able to agree to such a thing. A lot here are solely seeing the daughter, and not many are seeing the victims of this mans actions.
When did PCness start ignoring blatant crimes?