Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by irish

Playing well? What exactly has he done thats so great? 31 other teams looked at him and didnt think he was such a special teams demon. I dont ever expect a player to give a discount (their career is too short as it is) but Rock had absolutely zero interest shown in him. He should be glad he's on a team let alone getting a $3 mil contract.

Did I say "played like a superstar"? Did I say "played great"? No, I said played well.

Here are his stats. Rock Cartwright Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

In 2007, he was 15th in the league in Kick Returns
In 2006, he was 11th

In 2005, he had a 7.4 average per carry as the teams 3rd back, including a 100 yard game against St. Louis during the playoff run.

In 2007, he had 2nd on ST tackles.
In 2006, he was 5th on ST tackles and had a blocked punt.
In 2005, he was 3rd on ST tackles

He's a solid player and got a slightly better then vet min deal. If continuity means nothing to you, fine - IMHO, that is worth a little extra, particularly when you're talking about a player who is continually refered to as a team leader. And, even if you don't remember hearing his name called on a fairly regular basis for ST tackles, I certainly do.

Also, how do you know he had "zero interest"? It was reported that he was disappointed with the response - but, just b/c he was disappointed, it does not mean that there weren't calls or offers. If you got the inside dope, please share. If he got several vet min offers, are you saying we shouldn't have bumped it up a little to keep him?

Is he anything special? No, not really. Did he get a contract that was special? No, not really. You want to pinch pennies on an acknowledged team leader? Fine, but then you better not expect much leadership.

Aren't you the same guy that said this FO will never learn? That Gibbs taught them nothing?? This signing demonstrates the error of both assertions. (Note: I used the word "demonstrates" not "proves", only time will do that).

Your critique reeks of criticism for criticism's sake. Bottom line, b/c they don't have a GM, you will criticize just about any move this organization makes.

[irish]

If there is one thing the skins arent its penny pinchers. Of course all that largesse has got them nothing except over paid, underperforming players.

They could have let Rock go and had a draft pick play almost as good for a lot less money. I am not in the locker room to know how much of a leader Rock is but I just cant fathom that a middling special teams player is a leader of consequence.

Your support of Rock reeks of supporting a player only because he is current a Skin. If he was signed from another team I doubt you'd be so supportive of the move.

[JoeRedskin]

Please tell me again, with something other than your opinion, how you can prove he was overpaid. What offers did he receive, from whom, when and what were the terms?

I know what the Skins paid for him and their terms. He gets ~200K over vet min this year and ~400 over vet min next year. Not exactly killer numbers. Does part of my support come b/c he is a current Skin? Yup. But B Lloyd was a current Skin - I am glad they cut him. Does a player from another team get the same pay as home grown player? Nope. Shouldn't. And if you don't realize leadership on a sports team can grow outside the limelight, well that speaks volumes.

[hagams]

"True Redskins". Glad to have him back, and I don't hold it against him for testing the market before re-signing with us. Money's out there, why sit back and watch everyone else get paid?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Please tell me again, with something other than your opinion, how you can prove he was overpaid. What offers did he receive, from whom, when and what were the terms?

I know what the Skins paid for him and their terms. He gets ~200K over vet min this year and ~400 over vet min next year. Not exactly killer numbers. Does part of my support come b/c he is a current Skin? Yup. But B Lloyd was a current Skin - I am glad they cut him. Does a player from another team get the same pay as home grown player? Nope. Shouldn't. And if you don't realize leadership on a sports team can grow outside the limelight, well that speaks volumes.

I think you probably should just ignore irish. I would do it myself if my mod obligations didn't prevent me from doing so. He made a big stink last year about how we care more about signing other free agents than keeping our own players. When I mentioned re-signing guys like Betts and Sellers I believe he said that wasn't enough. So now we've re-signed Rock for much less than he was hoping for and it still's not enough. If I remember right, he also questioned why Schneed would think Portis would restructure...and of course he did.

So bottom line, irish can preach all his "I'm a realist" bs but that's all it is, bs. Being "real" is recognizing positive change, it's not all about the negative. He's just very negative about the Redskins, and probably about many other things in life.

Now...as for re-signing Rock. Good. I didn't think it would happen so soon because I thought they should take care of other things (since he wasn't highly sought after) before re-signing Rock. But they got it done now and at a decent price, so there's nothing to really whine about.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think you probably should just ignore irish. I would do it myself if my mod obligations didn't prevent me from doing so. He made a big stink last year about how we care more about signing other free agents than keeping our own players. When I mentioned re-signing guys like Betts and Sellers I believe he said that wasn't enough. So now we've re-signed Rock for much less than he was hoping for and it still's not enough. If I remember right, he also questioned why Schneed would think Portis would restructure...and of course he did.

So bottom line, irish can preach all his "I'm a realist" bs but that's all it is, bs. Being "real" is recognizing positive change, it's not all about the negative. He's just very negative about the Redskins, and probably about many other things in life.

Now...as for re-signing Rock. Good. I didn't think it would happen so soon because I thought they should take care of other things (since he wasn't highly sought after) before re-signing Rock. But they got it done now and at a decent price, so there's nothing to really whine about.

As to Irish, I agree. The critique of this move falls into so much of a past pattern that I really should've just let it go. I just don't appreciate the intellectual dishonesty it displayed and felt like a response was appropriate. Sometimes BS needs to be pointed out for what it is.

As to Rock, was there any interest out for him at all? I would imagine that he had a few vet min plus offers. Maybe I am just looking at it through burgundy and gold glasses, but I thought he would generate some interest as a back up and KR.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

As to Irish, I agree. The critique of this move falls into so much of a past pattern that I really should've just let it go. I just don't appreciate the intellectual dishonesty it displayed and felt like a response was appropriate. Sometimes BS needs to be pointed out for what it is.

As to Rock, was there any interest out for him at all? I would imagine that he had a few vet min plus offers. Maybe I am just looking at it through burgundy and gold glasses, but I thought he would generate some interest as a back up and KR.

I think there was a little cursory interest, but nothing all that major.

[Hog1]

The Rock IS important.
Anyone who has participated, coached, or observed team sports is keenly aware of the players who are positive leaders. Teams cannot succeed without role players, strong locker room guys who help to maintain the cohesion in "team". Rock is one of those guys.
The Skins know all to well the folly in trying to insert hightly paid (non-team) guys (that did not fit) to short road our success. Obviously it did not work.
Teams.........must be..............TEAMS, to be successful. The Rock and others like him help that process.
Good signing!

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

The Rock IS important.
Anyone who has participated, coached, or observed team sports is keenly aware of the players who are positive leaders. Teams cannot succeed without role players, strong locker room guys who help to maintain the cohesion in "team". Rock is one of those guys.
The Skins know all to well the folly in trying to insert hightly paid (non-team) guys (that did not fit) to short road our success. Obviously it did not work.
Teams.........must be..............TEAMS, to be successful. The Rock and others like him help that process.
Good signing!

Wait a second. So you're trying to tell me, that depisite what irish said, you don't have to be a superstar athlete/Pro Bowler to be a leader? My head is spinning. I thought only guys that caught 100 balls or had elite athletic skills could act in any leadership capacity. You know, guys like Terrell Owens and Mike Vick, those superstar guys thats where your leaders are. Some marginal special teams guy, HA, you've got to be joking.

[skinsfan_nn]

Rocks the special guest on Redskin radio for lunch, talking about how happy he is to still be a Skin. And speaking on contract details and the team, coaching staff.

Washington Redskins

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by irish

If there is one thing the skins arent its penny pinchers. Of course all that largesse has got them nothing except over paid, underperforming players.

They could have let Rock go and had a draft pick play almost as good for a lot less money. I am not in the locker room to know how much of a leader Rock is but I just cant fathom that a middling special teams player is a leader of consequence.

Your support of Rock reeks of supporting a player only because he is current a Skin. If he was signed from another team I doubt you'd be so supportive of the move.

So you complain when we "overpay" other teams' free agents and fail to re-sign our own free agents. Then, we don't sign anyone else's free agents and re-sign our own free agents and still you whine? We re-sign Rock to a deal that essentially pays him the vet. minimum and gives him less than $1M in guaranteed money and yet he is overpaid? If Rock was signed by another team for the same money, I doubt you'd be applauding the F.O. allowing him to leave.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Wait a second. So you're trying to tell me, that depisite what irish said, you don't have to be a superstar athlete/Pro Bowler to be a leader? My head is spinning. I thought only guys that caught 100 balls or had elite athletic skills could act in any leadership capacity. You know, guys like Terrell Owens and Mike Vick, those superstar guys thats where your leaders are. Some marginal special teams guy, HA, you've got to be joking.

I must admit, I am a bit concerned, now that B. Lloyd has moved on.