The Obama Years- A GOP love story

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Good leaders can draw appropriate lines, AND explain to tired fathers/mothers/sons/daughters WHY the line is drawn, and why we need to be prepared for all eventualities..

I respect what you say ,you and JR but I don't agree with it .This line tells all I need to know . I know you can't seem to understand it but will you be ok sending you son,daughter /wife to Russia to die for a policy ,they might have a different idea .This whole conversation is bringing back the 60's/70's and Vietnam .

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Didn't say that, I asked you ,what it is you want him to do ?

It's what he hasn't done. His statement says it all

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I respect what you say ,you and JR but I don't agree with it .This line tells all I need to know . I know you can't seem to understand it but will you be ok sending you son,daughter /wife to Russia to die for a policy ,they might have a different idea .This whole conversation is bringing back the 60's/70's and Vietnam .

My son is 17 years old, my next oldest is 15years old. I don't think Fathers/Mothers in WWI or II or Korea, or Vietnam or Iraq/Afg. were "OK" for sending it, but there is a thing called national security, and world politics, and if Putin is willing to take food off his own people's shelves, I guarantee he won't give a rat's ass about any US child. Do I want my son to go to war. No, no sane US citizen does. Do I accept that the world is not friggin ponies and fairy tales and group hugs. Yes. It shouldn't bring back the 60 and 70's because that's not the world structure that is in place. It should bring back the time before both World Wars, and if we don't want to see that type of fire engulf the whole world, our leaders better sure as hell have the backbone and reality check to make a case for protecting US interests abroad and at home. And it ain't by taking one of our biggest strengths off the d*** table before we even started the process.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

It's what he hasn't done. His statement says it all

I get it you're mad , again what is it you want him to do ?

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

My son is 17 years old, my next oldest is 15years old. I don't think Fathers/Mothers in WWI or II or Korea, or Vietnam or Iraq/Afg. were "OK" for sending it, but there is a thing called national security.

Russia and Ukraine is not a national security risk for US .When there is one of course I believe in defending our country .WW I an II there was , we were openly attacked in II ,not in Korea or Vietnam .Buy the end of Vietnam there were as many parents wanting out as there were young kids ,this is what I meant by age in my other post and no it was not a shot at anyone .At 17 my number in the draft was pulled(I still have my draft card) ,they had stop the draft put were still pulling the numbers in case needed.7 kids in my family and I was the only one that could be drafted ,it was fun at night to hear the fighting on what I should do from everyone else and all I kept asking is why are we there and no one could answer me , tell me policy and I would have punch you in the mouth then ,I had already lost a cousin in Vietnam in 1970 .Sorry for the digression ,look I understand the viewpoint, I just disagree with it .

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I get it you're mad , again what is it you want him to do ?

So if I dont have a plan or strategy, me, a guy on a redskins message board, its understandable, im a nobody. You dont understand what Im saying?

Im lost on how people will blindly follow someone regardless of what they say or do. Its like people refuse to think for themself. Welcome to the U.S.

[CRedskinsRule]

When I gave the 2 ways a President could react, I said, if it's NOT worth fighting for then the president should clearly express where (if any where) that line is. I get that Ukraine isn't, we don't have any specific alliances with Ukraine, we don't have any direct national resources dependent on them. That's fine. I disagree that a country being invaded, particularly when the nation doing the invading has shown a propensity for it, but I get it. You draw the line somewhere else. But where we disagree is that if this isn't a line in the sand point, with non -allies (or potential adversaries) like Russia and China, you can't speak in group huggeese, and you don't just take one of your biggest advantages (a strong military) out of the equation at the onset, because that emboldens them. You have to come out, and not in 30 second radio quips, or even Saturday morning shows. No matter what you believe our response should be on the ground, a country has had one part of it forcibly removed (Crimea) and another under siege by the same style tactics. The President of the United States should address the US on National television, as a whole, setting aside political bickering and draw a rousing bipartisan speech that unites the country to understand that this is a bad thing, and IF Russia or China continue to behave in that manner, it will become a US national issue at x point, (ie invading Estonia), and why. And should condemn nationally, and follow it up in the UN General Assembly, the attack on sovereign territory unambiguously.

Originally Posted by GiantOne

... all I kept asking is why are we there and no one could answer me , tell me policy and I would have punch you in the mouth...

In fact you outline exactly what I am saying this President should do when you say no one could tell you why we were in Vietnam. In the bipolar world, that ambiguity was hid a little because the USSR was a useful threat. In the unipolar world, the US could protect a state like Kuwait because well we were top dog, and US citizens felt pretty near invincible, and we were. But in the world we are heading into, we need our leaders to be decisive, and clear in their stance (and I don't mean by simply saying "let me be clear"), and in their actions. Develop our national stance with both sides of the aisle, draw up a clear unambiguous statement of national policy and find the common core values that all US citizens can understand and believe in, and then go before the nation, and world, and tell it to those who are acting in ways that might bring confrontation, This is where we as a nation stand. Read my second one (not the one where we actively defend Ukraine, but where we set our principles in tangible actions), I believe that the President could make that speech, with minimal diplomatic coverage, and imo 70% of both sides of the aisle would cheer him. (minus the far right warnicks , and the far left peaceniks).

[JoeRedskin]

G1, so when would you commit US troops? I get Ukraine is not the place and, while I think it will only encourage Putin to be more aggressive, I am okay with saying "Sorry Ukraine, if economic sanctions don't stop him, we're out."

When Putin sends people troops to "support" the Russian enclave in Western Estonia, claims the Estonian govt. is repressing their freedoms, etc., will we honor our NATO treaty commitment?

What is your line in the sand?

[over the mountain]

one thing is for sure - i think everyone in hindsight is glad obama pulled back from his red line with syria after the chemical use and didnt do missile strikes to assist the "rebels" against assad like everyone wanted .... as it appears that would have just cleared the way for ISIS "rebels" to control all of syria.

im glad obama didnt listen to the media and pundits who were calling him weak and indecisive. man - could you imagine how hard those same pundits would be now blaming obama for helping ISIS if he had listened to them!!

[JoeRedskin]

Obama made his initial Red Line comment in an unscripted statement. I don't think he was ever particularly comfortable with it. It was a sound bite that sounded good but then he realized it boxed him in. Not sure he was being particularly "decisive" in backing down from it - he waffled his way away from a remark he never particularly liked, and it just happened to break his way.

[JoeRedskin]

... but yes, it was a good thing he did not involve in Syria when their was substantial pressure to do so.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

one thing is for sure - i think everyone in hindsight is glad obama pulled back from his red line with syria after the chemical use and didnt do missile strikes to assist the "rebels" against assad like everyone wanted .... as it appears that would have just cleared the way for ISIS "rebels" to control all of syria.

im glad obama didnt listen to the media and pundits who were calling him weak and indecisive. man - could you imagine how hard those same pundits would be now blaming obama for helping ISIS if he had listened to them!!

To be clear, the line in the sand was one of his good moments, imo. That clarity resulted in chemical weapons being destroyed, without us firing a shot.

[NC_Skins]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczyn...he-mini#mo87eh



Yeah you fucking lazy black people. What the fuck is wrong with you for wanting a living wage? I remember back when slaves were given food/shelter and we didn't have a issue back then. /s




Why am I not surprised this is coming from Ted Cruz's dad? Imagine if this douche bag runs what the media will do. Just put this on repeat and call it a day.

[CRedskinsRule]

Maybe BRICS and the Russia/China/US dynamic deserves it's own thread, but I guess I'm not there yet.

Sept 26th will mark the opening of the Shanghai Gold Exchange International Board. Why is that noteworthy? Well, as was stated earlier, there is a huge push by the BRICS nations to break the US Dollar's position in the world. From a May 27th article, here are a few key developments:

Shanghai Gold Exchange International Board Another Blow To US Dollar

As we can see power shifting from West to East on a daily basis at the current time of writing, in the fourth quarter of this year the Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE) will launch an international board in the Shanghai Free Trade Zone (FTZ) for investors worldwide to trade gold spot contracts denominated in renminbi. The purpose being is becoming not only the world’s primary physical gold market but also increase pricing power and internationalize the renminbi.

Shortlist of recent developments regarding the rising powers in the East:

Russia’s central bank bought 28 metric tonnes of gold in April
Russia set up a Euarsian Economic union with Belarus and Kazakhstan
Russia dumps record amounts of US treasuries
Russia closes an energy deal with China worth $400 billion (amongst 40 other business contracts)
Putin says Russia and China need to secure their gold and currency reserves
China openly calls for de-Americanization of the world
China, Russia, Iran and 21 other countries bolster cooperation to promote peace, security and stability in Asia
China is buying assets all over the globe and investing in infrastructure in Africa and West Asia
China is importing unprecedented amounts of physical gold

The SGE international board will be another blow to the US dollar hegemony, as more people around the world will hold renminbi, use the renminbi for trading gold and China wil have more power in pricing gold, though the international board’s pricing power can only be wholly exploited when the renminbi is fully convertible.

This twitter feed sums the idea up:
DJ Rubiconski ‏@Rubiconski 28m
GOOD-BYE USD, hello PETROGOLD! #BRICS gold exchange standard currency starts Sept 26 w/ the SHANGHAI GOLD EXCHANGE opening to foreigners!

(that feed is pretty much pure propaganda but I am always interested to hear the opposing side of things)

[NC_Skins]

https://movies.yahoo.com/news/michae...211803862.html

Michael Moore dropping the bombs on Obama.

"When the history is written of this era, this is how you'll be remembered: he was the first black president," Moore said during a discussion at The Hollywood Reporter's video lounge at the Toronto Film Festival.

"OK, not a bad accomplishment, but that's it," the director said. "That's it, Mr. Obama. 100 years from now, 'he was the first black American that got elected president' and that's it. Eight years of your life and that's what people are going to remember. Boy, I got a feeling, knowing you, that -- you'd probably wish you were remembered for a few other things, a few other things you could've done."

"So, it is, on that level, a big disappointment," Moore said.