Ukraine mega thread

[CRedskinsRule]

Just want to clarify, the Budapest Memorandum doesn't bind any party to any action. It is only as good as the value the parties that signed it are, and in the case of the US and UK, we were just there as witnesses.

In a certain way, it's like witnesses for a marriage. If one of the two decides to get a divorce the witnesses aren't obligated to prevent it by all means necessary.

The Partnership for Peace commitments create more obligations, but even there, we aren't in a fully functional mutual defense treaty. Again, putting it in non political terms, it's more like co-signing for an adult kid's car. Yes, you are obligated to repay, but only at the pure default of the primary signatories.

We want to be sure that Putin isn't going Stalin/Hitler as he gets older, but nothing that's happened should cause us to put our forces on the ground.

All that said, I think it's hilarious that a guy like AW who will balk at the most minor military cutbacks will say that 1 billion dollars in support of Ukraine won't do nothing. Pretty sure they wouldn't spend the first 10Million on sending the Thunderbirds on a tour, they probably would actually reinforce their defenses and economic infrastructure.

[Alvin Walton]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Just want to clarify, the Budapest Memorandum doesn't bind any party to any action. It is only as good as the value the parties that signed it are, and in the case of the US and UK, we were just there as witnesses.

In a certain way, it's like witnesses for a marriage. If one of the two decides to get a divorce the witnesses aren't obligated to prevent it by all means necessary.

The Partnership for Peace commitments create more obligations, but even there, we aren't in a fully functional mutual defense treaty. Again, putting it in non political terms, it's more like co-signing for an adult kid's car. Yes, you are obligated to repay, but only at the pure default of the primary signatories.

We want to be sure that Putin isn't going Stalin/Hitler as he gets older, but nothing that's happened should cause us to put our forces on the ground.

All that said, I think it's hilarious that a guy like AW who will balk at the most minor military cutbacks will say that 1 billion dollars in support of Ukraine won't do nothing. Pretty sure they wouldn't spend the first 10Million on sending the Thunderbirds on a tour, they probably would actually reinforce their defenses and economic infrastructure.

That's some good info about the treaty and thanks for digging that up/clarifying it.
And your military cutback comment doesnt make any sense as I lean heavily towards Libertarian values.
The Ukraine/Russia thing is so convoluted that I would still prefer to spend our tax dollars (the ones I put in the coffers) towards the Thunderbirds.

America first.