Do you support Gibbs' decision to start Brunell? (Merged)

[Dogtag]

Yes

[LadyT]

Originally Posted by offiss

Dead on!

Excellent point as well, it looks to me that Gibbs has this kid's confidence broken down so bad he's lucky if he knows what a football looks like, let alone how to throw a spiral, bottom line Gibbs IMO has had distain for Ramsey from day 1, and IMO has done nothing but try and break this kids confidence since he's been back, he goes out and gets Brunell without so much as having 1 practice with him, [a lot like his Portis move] what is Ramsey to think Brunell turns the ball over 9 times in 9 games and Gibbs say's nothing all the while Brunell is lucky to throw for 100 yards in doing so, Ramsey turns the ball over but moves the ball up and down the field and Gibbs is screaming about turnovers, bottom line I think Gibbs is so far out of touch with the reality of the NFL and his own team it's scary.

I think you just hit on what it is about this QB move that has me the most upset and scared. It's the sense that Gibbs has lost touch with reality here. That what he has done, if viewed in purely logical terms, makes no good sense. And the thought that perhaps Gibbs is so out of touch is what really scares me, because he is our last best hope to turn things around - Danny Boy has no more rabbits to pull out of his hat if Gibbs doesn't work out.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I've asked this a few times but I don't think I've seen a clear answer.

What exactly has Ramsey done to deserve to be the unquestioned starter??

Why are people soooo emotionally attached to this guy??

It has to be an emotional attachment, that's the only way I can see why people are so supportive of a QB who's been so inconsistent. It has to be an emotional attachment when people are so eager to overlook his interceptions and inconsistent play.

I don't get it. Ramsey doesn't look like the answer right now, and in all likelihood Brunell is just a stopgap until Campbell is hopefully ready to take the job next year. But people are acting like we're benching Manning or Favre. We're benching a young QB who hasn't proven anything except that he's still an inconsistent QB that makes too many mental errors.

I've though the very same thing about many Gibbs-loyalists. Granted, the difference between Gibbs and Ramsey is night and day; Ramsey hasn't done squat while Gibbs essentially built the franchise.

I undoubtedly think Gibbs is great and has done more for this team than anyone else in the history of the franchise. However, I am not, nor will I ever be, the type to drink the Kool-Aid and blindly follow someone no matter who they are or how great I think they are. I truly think that despite what we saw of Brunell all last season, people are drinking the Kool-Aid and are placing too much trust in Gibbs.

Yeah, for me it is emotional. Anyone who claims to be unemotional about the Redskins is either 1). a liar, 2). not thinking this talk of being "emotional" through, or 3). maybe doesn't have the same feelings about the Redskins that I have. I love my Skins. I love the Redskins more than just about anything else (my girlfriend and soon-to-be fiance tops them). I get passionate about the Redskins. I like Ramsey not for who he is, but for what I think he could do for this franchise if given AN ENTIRE season and a teaspoon of confidence. Trust me, if I thought Ramsey would kill our team, I'd be putting a bounty on his head. So yeah, I'm emotion in support of Ramsey, because I think Ramsey's the best we've got and I'd like to see a few wins.

PS- Matty, I'm also trying to pin down your position. In some posts you seem to say that the Brunell-Ramsey debate isn't clear cut and in other posts you seem to say that it was a no brainer and Brunell was definately the way to go. Would you care to clarify your statements/opinions?

[LadyT]

Don't confuse the questioning of Joe's decision with everyone being emotionally attached to Ramsey. My biggest concern is how unsettled things are at the QB position. I do think Ramsey gives us the best chance to win. I also think that Brunell has shown me nothing to justify giving him the starter's job. In fact, just the opposite, he's shown me a lot of reasons why he should not have the job. And, finally, Campbell is nothing but a big question mark right now.

Forgive me for being just a tad bit troubled with this scenario.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Absolutely not -- Brunell played like shit for 9 weeks and he didnt yank him. Ramsey played fairly well minus the INT and was getting hotter as the game went on. Will he ever give him a chance?

I can't believe I'm doing this, but put me down as a "NO" and as being in complete agreement with Daseal (there's a first time for everything, LOL).

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I've asked this a few times but I don't think I've seen a clear answer.

What exactly has Ramsey done to deserve to be the unquestioned starter??

Why are people soooo emotionally attached to this guy??

It has to be an emotional attachment, that's the only way I can see why people are so supportive of a QB who's been so inconsistent. It has to be an emotional attachment when people are so eager to overlook his interceptions and inconsistent play.

I don't get it. Ramsey doesn't look like the answer right now, and in all likelihood Brunell is just a stopgap until Campbell is hopefully ready to take the job next year. But people are acting like we're benching Manning or Favre. We're benching a young QB who hasn't proven anything except that he's still an inconsistent QB that makes too many mental errors.

Honestly Matty, I don't think it's as much an endorsement for Ramsey as it is a slight against Brunell. Those 9 games last year were maybe the most painful games I've had to witness as a skins fan as far as our offense goes. I just don't want to see a repeat of that offense again. I know things are different with our offense this year, but let me turn the question back around: "What exactly has Brunell done to deserve to be the unquestioned starter??"

Did somehow completing less than half of his throws and gaining 5 yards per attempt last year win him the starting job? Did the fact that he went right back to that 5 yard per attempt average last week do it?

If you compare the numbers of what the two have done in the same system, it's not even close.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

I know things are different with our offense this year, but let me turn the question back around: "What exactly has Brunell done to deserve to be the unquestioned starter??"

Did somehow completing less than half of his throws and gaining 5 yards per attempt last year win him the starting job? Did the fact that he went right back to that 5 yard per attempt average last week do it?

If you compare the numbers of what the two have done in the same system, it's not even close.

PSU, the question has been asked a million times, read back in the thread. everyone here comes back with "practice and the preseason". apparently the offseason *still* counts more here than the regular season.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by illdefined

PSU, the question has been asked a million times, and everyone here comes back with practice and the preseason. apparently the offseason counts more here than the regular season as always.

And I guess that's what I don't understand.......to me, who cares how Brunell did against 2nd string defenses in the preseason. He's proven what he can do on gameday: nothing much.

I just can't get the 2004 comparison out of my head:
Brunell 3-6: 9 games, 118 of 237 (49%), 1194 yards, 7 TD/6 INT, 63.9 rating
Ramsey 3-4: 7 games, 169 of 272 (62%), 1451 yards, 10 TD/11 INT, 74.8 rating

Hey, I hope I'm wrong. I hope I eat crow. But I just don't put that much stock in preseason, and I just don't have any faith in Brunell.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by LadyT

Don't confuse the questioning of Joe's decision with everyone being emotionally attached to Ramsey. My biggest concern is how unsettled things are at the QB position. I do think Ramsey gives us the best chance to win. I also think that Brunell has shown me nothing to justify giving him the starter's job. In fact, just the opposite, he's shown me a lot of reasons why he should not have the job. And, finally, Campbell is nothing but a big question mark right now.

Forgive me for being just a tad bit troubled with this scenario.

Agreed, I am not so much a Ramsey fan [although I do like the kid and think he's tough, and a class act] as much as I want what's best for the team to win, and from every scenerio I look at it's Ramsey over Brunell, the only other problem I have is even if it turns out that Ramsey isn't the QB to lead us, I still feel under the circumstances and Brunells track record with us so far, he has been unfairly mistreated by Gibbs.

Perhaps if some of us put our selves in Ramsey's shoes and take a look at what Gibbs did for Brunell last season, then to be told your my guy only to be yanked after 19 minutes for a guy who played the position last season for 9 games worse than anyone you have ever seen, you to may feel just a tad bit slighted, I would be surprised if Ramsey didn't ask for a trade, and wouldn't blame him one bit.

[ladyfan06]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

I'm not going to start a poll, I just want people to say (without presenting any arguments), do you publicly support Gibbs' decision to start Brunell? I would like to see people put their names down in support of or in opposition to this decision. I would like to cite this thread about 3-4 weeks from now.

Me first.....NO

simply put....YES I DO.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

Honestly Matty, I don't think it's as much an endorsement for Ramsey as it is a slight against Brunell. Those 9 games last year were maybe the most painful games I've had to witness as a skins fan as far as our offense goes. I just don't want to see a repeat of that offense again. I know things are different with our offense this year, but let me turn the question back around: "What exactly has Brunell done to deserve to be the unquestioned starter??"

Did somehow completing less than half of his throws and gaining 5 yards per attempt last year win him the starting job? Did the fact that he went right back to that 5 yard per attempt average last week do it?

If you compare the numbers of what the two have done in the same system, it's not even close.

This is a brilliant post. I couldn't put it into words any better.

I would also add that just because those who disagree with the decision to bench Ramsey doesn't mean they believe he is the reincarnation of Johnny Unitas. The reaction we're seeing among many fans is simply the disapproval of the quarterback who replaces him.

For the record, I don't think it matters which QB starts against the Cowboys on Monday night, or for the forseeable future. We simply do not have a quarterback that can lead any team to playoff contention. And I think Gibbs only has the choice between a guy who can occasionally make big plays, but still makes horrible decisions in Patrick Ramsey, or a guy who's most redeeming value right now seems to be that he's less likely to turn the ball over in Mark Brunell.

Count me in the category which recognizes that Gibbs made the judgement to start the player he thinks gives the team their best chance to win. While I'm somewhat skeptical that Brunell is that player, I base that opinion on his results last year, and his preseason production this year against second and third team opponents.

[SARPUP]

As important as a good QB is, I think Gibbs just wants some consistancy in the team. So what ever gets that going I support. Besides maybe Brunnell still has some left now that he has healed.

[Hail to the Redskins]

Let's just throw this out there..

Ramsey starts the game 1 for 4 for 4 yds, INT...

he then goes 5 for 7 for 101 yards (not bad AT ALL!) BUT...

if the bogus penalty on Cooley wasn't called it becomes 6 for 8 for 107 yds, TD. AND don't forget Portis drops a VERY catchable ball in there that would have been a 7 yarder which would have made him
.... 7 for 8 for 114yds, TD after his first 4 attempts. I'd say that's damn good for ANY quarterback in the NFL in their first REAL action of the season after getting warmed-up (first 4 attempts).

Also let's DEFINITELY not forget the Brunell threw an INT into Vasher's hands as well, only his was called back due to penalty. So basically, Ramsey has a TD called back, and Brunell has a pick called back...

This is nuts. It even looked like Patrick was starting to look comfortable out there for once. It is VERY clear from watching the 2 play that you have 2 basic options. You can go with the Favre-type QB in the sense that he can and will get big chunks of yards on some plays yet throw a few INTs as well, or a guy who can only be ULTRA--ULTRA CONSERVATIVE throwing slants and WR screens but not many INTs. We proved last year that you HAVE to TRY and go downfield to help the running game and to score FREAKING TOUCHDOWNS to win games!! Remember that if we would have scored on average 21 points per game last year (which is less than the 6-10 panthers scored) we'd have been 11-5!!!

Can Brunell lead this team to the Super Bowl?? NO. Let Ramsey PROVE... I mean REALLY prove his isn't the future...

[DragoJT87]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

Honestly Matty, I don't think it's as much an endorsement for Ramsey as it is a slight against Brunell. Those 9 games last year were maybe the most painful games I've had to witness as a skins fan as far as our offense goes. I just don't want to see a repeat of that offense again. I know things are different with our offense this year, but let me turn the question back around: "What exactly has Brunell done to deserve to be the unquestioned starter??"

Did somehow completing less than half of his throws and gaining 5 yards per attempt last year win him the starting job? Did the fact that he went right back to that 5 yard per attempt average last week do it?

If you compare the numbers of what the two have done in the same system, it's not even close.

I'll go even further and ask this. Aside from zone blocking, what was the basis of the "revamped" offense the staff worked so hard on this winter? Throwing the deep ball.

Neither of these guys are great, but Roy Williams is going to be a lot closer to the line of scrimmage this Monday and we all no why. When our "starting " QB throws for 70 yds. in 3 quarters, what defense/coordinator is going to respect the Washington Redskins passing game.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Let's just throw this out there..

Ramsey starts the game 1 for 4 for 4 yds, INT...

he then goes 5 for 7 for 101 yards (not bad AT ALL!) BUT...

if the bogus penalty on Cooley wasn't called it becomes 6 for 8 for 107 yds, TD. AND don't forget Portis drops a VERY catchable ball in there that would have been a 7 yarder which would have made him
.... 7 for 8 for 114yds, TD after his first 4 attempts. I'd say that's damn good for ANY quarterback in the NFL in their first REAL action of the season after getting warmed-up (first 4 attempts).

Also let's DEFINITELY not forget the Brunell threw an INT into Vasher's hands as well, only his was called back due to penalty. So basically, Ramsey has a TD called back, and Brunell has a pick called back...

This is nuts. It even looked like Patrick was starting to look comfortable out there for once. It is VERY clear from watching the 2 play that you have 2 basic options. You can go with the Favre-type QB in the sense that he can and will get big chunks of yards on some plays yet throw a few INTs as well, or a guy who can only be ULTRA--ULTRA CONSERVATIVE throwing slants and WR screens but not many INTs. We proved last year that you HAVE to TRY and go downfield to help the running game and to score FREAKING TOUCHDOWNS to win games!! Remember that if we would have scored on average 21 points per game last year (which is less than the 6-10 panthers scored) we'd have been 11-5!!!

Can Brunell lead this team to the Super Bowl?? NO. Let Ramsey PROVE... I mean REALLY prove his isn't the future...

woulda, shoulda I think we'd be better than 11-5 at 21ppg, and I didn't think ramsey looked bad enough to bench either, but its kinda a done deal now. I'm hoping brunell can prove he can keep the dbs deep enough for portis to break something.

I do agree that game could have turned out better easily, and the refs weren't that great, but bad calls are a reality for us.