To Read Option, or Not

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

No comment

LOL. I can agree to disagree.

Context is also important here. You don't hear many positive comments about us (Shanny especially) outside Skins fandom, which for me is basically just this board. Last night is a good example. Watched the draft with a houseful of football buddies plus wives and girlfriends. Cowboys fans. Steelers. Saints. Seahawks. Broncos. The few times a convo turned toward the Skins there was a single theme: "What the eff are the Redskins/Shanahans thinking?" About the read-option. About keeping RG on the field after the Baltimore injury, and most especially in the playoff game. Literally, every person at the house, and every football fan I've ever chatted with outside this board, thought keeping RG in that game was/is the most appalling decision/behavior they've seen by a coach anywhere (pro, college, other sports).

I'd like to think my views are pretty reasonable, given I listen to a lot of different perspectives and avoid a "bubble" experience.

I guess my bottom line: if we continue to use RG as a running QB the likelihood he plays a long, healthy career isn't good.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I guess my bottom line: if we continue to use RG as a running QB the likelihood he plays a long, healthy career isn't good.

If we refuse to utilize his skill-set to the fullest, the likelihood that the team is successful is limited.

He's not a running QB, Vick was a running QB. Unlike Vick, Griffin is also one of the most accurate passers in the NFL and can beat teams on the ground and in the air. He's not a running QB, he's a QB who can run. It's more than semantics. There's a huge difference.

If Conan did his "If they mated" bit with Chris Johnson and Peyton Manning, RGIII would be the answer. The way Robert led the offense to a winning TD all by himself in just his fourth game in the NFL after they turned off his headset...that's leadership and poise like Manning, but with world class speed.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

If we refuse to utilize his skill-set to the fullest, the likelihood that the team is successful is limited.

He's not a running QB, Vick was a running QB. Unlike Vick, Griffin is also one of the most accurate passers in the NFL and can beat teams on the ground and in the air. He's not a running QB, he's a QB who can run. It's more than semantics. There's a huge difference.

If Conan did his "If they mated" bit with Chris Johnson and Peyton Manning, RGIII would be the answer. The way Robert led the offense to a winning TD all by himself in just his fourth game in the NFL after they turned off his headset...that's leadership and poise like Manning, but with world class speed.

What's the difference? Fewer carries or yards? Nope. Fewer hits? Nope. Fewer injuries? Worse for RG so far (by a long way).

Again, I keep going back to the preponderance of evidence. Stats. And injury history that's already of huge concern unless you're a total homer.

To your earlier point, given RG's talent as a pure passer, why not build a formidable line to protect him (we don't have) while he picks the defense apart, give him a solid running game (we do have with the ZBS), and let the yards/TDs rack up? Keep him safe as possible but have all the success. Win-win, right?

Again, our offense with RG (thus far) only makes sense if you can't be successful in a traditional offense. Why take all the extra risk if you can get the same results otherwise?

Please don't mention injuries to Brady, Manning etc etc here. We've been down that road a hundred times...those guys we're winning for 10 years before severe injuries...RG didn't make it 10 months.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by The Goat

What's the difference?

I just explained the difference. Read it again.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I guess my bottom line: if we continue to use RG as a running QB the likelihood he plays a long, healthy career isn't good.

RGIII was injured (or worsening of an injury) 4 times last year by my count.

1. vs. Atlanta
2. vs. Baltimore
3. vs. Seattle (2nd TD drive)
4. vs. Seattle (end of the game)

Since you watched every play of every game last year, can you tell us what each play was and how Griffin got hurt?

To your team building strategy of building a formidable line, neither Shanahan will ever have a traditional drop back passing game that a 'formidable line' suits. They have, with the exception of a needed upgrade at RT, a good line for the offense. The running game will continue to be the engine and this year, expect to see RGIII in more of the style that Cousins played in vs. Cleveland and what the offense was prior to last season.

The QB who you keep describing isn't RGIII, it's Michael Vick..

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

The QB who you keep describing isn't RGIII, it's Michael Vick..

Truer words...

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

RGIII was injured (or worsening of an injury) 4 times last year by my count.

1. vs. Atlanta
2. vs. Baltimore
3. vs. Seattle (2nd TD drive)
4. vs. Seattle (end of the game)

Since you watched every play of every game last year, can you tell us what each play was and how Griffin got hurt?

To your team building strategy of building a formidable line, neither Shanahan will ever have a traditional drop back passing game that a 'formidable line' suits. They have, with the exception of a needed upgrade at RT, a good line for the offense. The running game will continue to be the engine and this year, expect to see RGIII in more of the style that Cousins played in vs. Cleveland and what the offense was prior to last season.

The QB who you keep describing isn't RGIII, it's Michael Vick..

From best of my memory (no cheating): against ATL he scrambled outside because nobody was open and dove to pick up that extra yard. Concussion. Against Balt it was a busted play and he scrambled downfield. Seattle (2nd TD) was a hit outside the pocket as he tried to extend the play to find an open WR. Then the infamous 4th quarter knee collapse...no description required.

The Cleveland game with Cousins was textbook (Mike) Shanahan from the Denver glory days, and in no way shape or form resembles what they schemed for RG. Not sure if that's what you've implied? Cousins was first QB of Mike's time in Washington to run that offense effectively. I think RG could and will if given the opportunity, but nobody should make the mistake thinking what we saw in Cleveland is anything like what they call for RG.

What else? Oh Vick vs RG. RG actually ran MORE than Vick. That's MORE lol not LESS. If what you mean there is Vick stayed healthy then yes...I get your point.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

From best of my memory (no cheating): against ATL he scrambled outside because nobody was open and dove to pick up that extra yard. Concussion. Against Balt it was a busted play and he scrambled downfield. Seattle (2nd TD) was a hit outside the pocket as he tried to extend the play to find an open WR. Then the infamous 4th quarter knee collapse...no description required.

The Cleveland game with Cousins was textbook (Mike) Shanahan from the Denver glory days, and in no way shape or form resembles what they schemed for RG. Not sure if that's what you've implied? Cousins was first QB of Mike's time in Washington to run that offense effectively. I think RG could and will if given the opportunity, but nobody should make the mistake thinking what we saw in Cleveland is anything like what they call for RG.

What else? Oh Vick vs RG. RG actually ran MORE than Vick. That's MORE lol not LESS. If what you mean there is Vick stayed healthy then yes...I get your point.

Glad your memory serves correctly because it emphasizes the point that RGIII got injured on plays called for a QB, NOT a running QB. He scrambled. Has nothing to do with the play call, the read option, running plays called for him, etc. Donovan McNabb, Rex Grossman, John Blech or Kirk Cousins could have been hurt the same exact ways on the same exact plays, does that make them 'running QB'? No. The notion of RGIII is a 'running QB' and his injuries are proof is absurd.

The comment about the Cleveland game was more predictive in nature, that we should expect to see more of that in 2013 but in reality we saw a majority of that when RG3 played anyways, but from the Pistol rather than under center. It's still an I formation or single back and assignments/boot options are run identically.

If you're looking at the 2012 stats (I don't have them in front of me) RG3 may have had more carries than Vick last season and even single season high but its too soon to make a declarative statement on him running more vs. Vick.