2012 QB Class

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

I feel like you all are pulling some joke. This isn't a racist claim, this is realistic. How many Black QB's have won a super bowl? 1! There has been 45 super bowls and out of those 1 super bowl has been won by an african american QB. Just right there I'll take my chances on a white QB. Black QB's rely on either one of two things (or both); their athleticism and their arm. White QB's rely on many things, some of which are their football IQ. Mike Vick relies on his legs and his strong arm. Cam Newton = legs and arm. McNabb = arm (used to be legs too). Jason Campbell = arm and legs. Tavaris Jackson = arm, legs. Randall Cunningham = arm and legs. Warren Moon = arm.

Now lets just look at the last 3 super bowl winning QB's.
Rodgers = arm, legs, accuracy, great at changing play calls, great football IQ
Brees= accurate, great at changing play calls, great football IQ, good pocket awareness
Roethlisberger = tough, relies on his feet to extend plays, good football IQ, clutch.

It's just like in the NBA. Why is it American white players are always shoved down late in the draft or just not drafted at all? Take Jimmer Fredette. He was the CBBall player of the year last year and what was it that talent evaluators said "He's too slow for the NBA...He's not that aggressive nor a good defender...he's not tall enough. He can only shoot threes" translation. He's not black. And why would he be drafted high? The NBA is over 90% african american players. Their taller more athletic players. Their explosive and can run and jump. Not saying white people can't do that, but its just not as likely to find a white american player that can do all that when theirs already so many good african american players that can do that for that sport.


Until another African American QB wins the Super Bowl, I'm going to lean towards us getting a white QB until then. And RGIII isn't coming out this year according to reports.

Just stop dude. You've basically said that none of the black QBs have accuracy, pocket awareness, and other traits of a solid football IQ. That they're just athletes running around. If you don't realize that guys like Vick and Newton are successful because they are football smart and more than just athletes then you don't belong on this board.

[skinsfaninok]

All this white v black QB has always made me laugh, considering I'd take Cam Newton over any QB in the league right now other than Rodgers and Brady

[SBXVII]

I think every team looks for a smart, mobile, and accurate QB or atleast one that has the best and most of those qualities.

we have the smart (Grossman) and we have the mobile (Beck) but we just don't have the accurate in either of them. Hopefully one of the QB's is still on the table when we are able to draft that has all 3 qualities.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I think every team looks for a smart, mobile, and accurate QB or atleast one that has the best and most of those qualities.

we have the smart (Grossman) and we have the mobile (Beck) but we just don't have the accurate in either of them. Hopefully one of the QB's is still on the table when we are able to draft that has all 3 qualities.

What about Grossman is smart?

This Rex/Beck debate sure is getting comical.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

What about Grossman is smart?

This Rex/Beck debate sure is getting comical.

We passed the "getting comical" mark a looooong time ago. Now it's like watching two idiots argue about whether pig wrestling ought to be in the Olympics - Sure, at first it's funny to hear their earnest advocacy of something stupid, but after a while it's just, well, stupid.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

What about Grossman is smart?

This Rex/Beck debate sure is getting comical.

Sorry late to see your post....

Well, what I see when Grossman plays is a QB who knows the system inside and out, one who can change the play at the LOS to a more favorable play, one who goes through his progressions... maybe too fast.. but does usually get rid of the ball prior to the rush getting to him even if it's to throw the ball away.

What I see in Beck is a QB who knows the system but not as well as Grossman, one who has mobility and can escape pressure or run for the 1st down if needed to, and honestly thats about it.

My problem with all the Grossman haters is they came out with the excuse that he needed to be benched because he can't run for the 1st down (too slow) and because he's throwing 2 INT's a game and one horrendous Eagles game. Funny thing is Beck has not faired much better. He has threw 1 INT the first game and had 2 fumbles. In the second game he had 2 INT's and 2 fumbles. What part of his play is 100% better then Grossman's? If the coaching staff wants a pocket passer they might as well stay with Grossman who knows more of the plays vs. making Beck a more mobile QB stay in the pocket all day. Design plays around his abilities or his mobility is a non factor. Design some QB runs up the middle, use more play action and roll him out, use play action/roll outs to fake out the DE's and give the ball to the RB for an up the middle run.

I'm not saying Grossman is 100X smarter then Beck, I'm just saying he knows the system better. On the other note I find it humorous that fans think Beck is going to have an apiffany and all of a sudden start playing like Favre because of their believe Beck has not been given a chance to prove himself. He was with Miami who is in despirate need of a QB and if he had talent I would think they would have kept him and built around him but they let him go, cut or traded him. Baltimore had him and apparently he was not better then what they already had as a starter and eventually ... because he was such the SB/franchise QB they decided to trade him away to the Skins.

I'll agree on one thing with everyone else. Neither QB should be our future and the team definitly needs to draft a top notch one this next draft.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Sorry late to see your post....

Well, what I see when Grossman plays is a QB who knows the system inside and out, one who can change the play at the LOS to a more favorable play, one who goes through his progressions... maybe too fast.. but does usually get rid of the ball prior to the rush getting to him even if it's to throw the ball away.

What I see in Beck is a QB who knows the system but not as well as Grossman, one who has mobility and can escape pressure or run for the 1st down if needed to, and honestly thats about it.

My problem with all the Grossman haters is they came out with the excuse that he needed to be benched because he can't run for the 1st down (too slow) and because he's throwing 2 INT's a game and one horrendous Eagles game. Funny thing is Beck has not faired much better. He has threw 1 INT the first game and had 2 fumbles. In the second game he had 2 INT's and 2 fumbles. What part of his play is 100% better then Grossman's? If the coaching staff wants a pocket passer they might as well stay with Grossman who knows more of the plays vs. making Beck a more mobile QB stay in the pocket all day. Design plays around his abilities or his mobility is a non factor. Design some QB runs up the middle, use more play action and roll him out, use play action/roll outs to fake out the DE's and give the ball to the RB for an up the middle run.

I'm not saying Grossman is 100X smarter then Beck, I'm just saying he knows the system better. On the other note I find it humorous that fans think Beck is going to have an apiffany and all of a sudden start playing like Favre because of their believe Beck has not been given a chance to prove himself. He was with Miami who is in despirate need of a QB and if he had talent I would think they would have kept him and built around him but they let him go, cut or traded him. Baltimore had him and apparently he was not better then what they already had as a starter and eventually ... because he was such the SB/franchise QB they decided to trade him away to the Skins.

I'll agree on one thing with everyone else. Neither QB should be our future and the team definitly needs to draft a top notch one this next draft.

Rex knows the offense but he still turns it over too much and he's just too inconsistent. Knowing an offense doesn't make you smart as a QB. Making good decisions on a consistent basis is what earns you the smart label, and Rex clearly hasn't done that here or in Chicago.

[JoeRedskin]

Just a reminder where it all started:

Black Quarterback Pioneer: Remembering James Harris - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com

In addition to his skill on the field, the guy was instrumental in assembling the successfull Ravens & Jaguars teams of the 2000's. I would suggest he has a little "Football IQ".

[NC_Skins]

I think people like CB59 probably voices what many people think or believe inside. I think some of the reasons for such stereotype is due to the following:

1) Blacks on average score lower on SAT tests than whites (and other standardized tests)
The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done - Brookings Institution

2) Blacks are viewed as better athletes than whites generally.

My guess is many people view the black quarterback as one who's superior athletically, but lacks the intelligence to develop into a complete quarter back. We also see a good deal of kids coming from broken homes and bad environments that do lack the education and proper upbringing, which also feeds the stereotypical picture of the black athlete.

I think the problem with the "athletic" quarterback starts long before college even rolls around. Even from the time of middle/high school, these kids generally are better athletes than the guys around them. Coaches then have them use those skills to win games instead of teaching them the true fundamentals and form. As long as the coaches are winning games, they don't care if his fundamentals/form are there. Otherwise, a guy like Tim Tebow doesn't go through 4 years of college without having his mechanics changed. Urban Meyer didn't give a shit about his mechanics because Tebow was running all over the place.

For guys like Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, that simply wasn't a option. They had to focus more on the form of passing to elevate their game at the position, and having a NFL QB as a dad probably helped with the instruction from as a small child.

For me, it's different. I don't think Cam Newton is a dummy because he's black. I think Cam Newton is a dummy because he had to cheat in Florida to get by with academics. Watching his interview with Jon Gruden made me cringe. I also think Tim Tebow is a dummy as well and he's white. They say Wonderlic scores aren't a good gauge, but I say otherwise.

Bottom line, I think the most important qualities for a NFL quarterback to have is:

1) Intelligence
2) Accuracy
3) Reaction time (progression reads/quick release)

Sure having a big gun and fast wheels makes for a great combo as well, but we've seen QBs become Hall of Famers without those two traits. In the end, we need to take away the color from a player and focus on their strengths and weaknesses. They are all unique and vary from person to person, regardless of their color.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I think people like CB59 probably voices what many people think or believe inside. I think some of the reasons for such stereotype is due to the following:

1) Blacks on average score lower on SAT tests than whites (and other standardized tests)
The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done - Brookings Institution

2) Blacks are viewed as better athletes than whites generally.

My guess is many people view the black quarterback as one who's superior athletically, but lacks the intelligence to develop into a complete quarter back. We also see a good deal of kids coming from broken homes and bad environments that do lack the education and proper upbringing, which also feeds the stereotypical picture of the black athlete.

I think the problem with the "athletic" quarterback starts long before college even rolls around. Even from the time of middle/high school, these kids generally are better athletes than the guys around them. Coaches then have them use those skills to win games instead of teaching them the true fundamentals and form. As long as the coaches are winning games, they don't care if his fundamentals/form are there. Otherwise, a guy like Tim Tebow doesn't go through 4 years of college without having his mechanics changed. Urban Meyer didn't give a shit about his mechanics because Tebow was running all over the place.

For guys like Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, that simply wasn't a option. They had to focus more on the form of passing to elevate their game at the position, and having a NFL QB as a dad probably helped with the instruction from as a small child.

For me, it's different. I don't think Cam Newton is a dummy because he's black. I think Cam Newton is a dummy because he had to cheat in Florida to get by with academics. Watching his interview with Jon Gruden made me cringe. I also think Tim Tebow is a dummy as well and he's white. They say Wonderlic scores aren't a good gauge, but I say otherwise.

Bottom line, I think the most important qualities for a NFL quarterback to have is:

1) Intelligence
2) Accuracy
3) Reaction time (progression reads/quick release)

Sure having a big gun and fast wheels makes for a great combo as well, but we've seen QBs become Hall of Famers without those two traits. In the end, we need to take away the color from a player and focus on their strengths and weaknesses. They are all unique and vary from person to person, regardless of their color.

THANK YOU! That's what I was trying to say, but everyones so sensitive and all 'Nooo Race came up on this board. You're so racist.' Yet no one wanted to prove my statement wrong, (they just wanted to say I'm racist for pointing out a fairly obvious topic,) told me enough right there.


BACK to the board discussion. One guy I keep forgetting about is Case Keenum. The guy is pretty accurate and is experienced. I just don't know how mobile he is for shanahans offense.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

THANK YOU! That's what I was trying to say, but everyones so sensitive and all 'Nooo Race came up on this board. You're so racist.' Yet no one wanted to prove my statement wrong, (they just wanted to say I'm racist for pointing out a fairly obvious topic,) told me enough right there.

I'm quite sure what I said and what you said are completely different. I expounded to people where you got your racial stereotype from in regards to black QBs. I simply refute that color should even be a factor when talking about QBs. It plays no part in the discussion really.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

THANK YOU! That's what I was trying to say, but everyones so sensitive and all 'Nooo Race came up on this board. You're so racist.' Yet no one wanted to prove my statement wrong, (they just wanted to say I'm racist for pointing out a fairly obvious topic,) told me enough right there.


BACK to the board discussion. One guy I keep forgetting about is Case Keenum. The guy is pretty accurate and is experienced. I just don't know how mobile he is for shanahans offense.

Well in that case, I prefer a black president because none of them have been assassinated.

[Shadowbyte]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I think people like CB59 probably voices what many people think or believe inside. I think some of the reasons for such stereotype is due to the following:

1) Blacks on average score lower on SAT tests than whites (and other standardized tests)
The Black-White Test Score Gap: Why It Persists and What Can Be Done - Brookings Institution

2) Blacks are viewed as better athletes than whites generally.

My guess is many people view the black quarterback as one who's superior athletically, but lacks the intelligence to develop into a complete quarter back. We also see a good deal of kids coming from broken homes and bad environments that do lack the education and proper upbringing, which also feeds the stereotypical picture of the black athlete.

I think the problem with the "athletic" quarterback starts long before college even rolls around. Even from the time of middle/high school, these kids generally are better athletes than the guys around them. Coaches then have them use those skills to win games instead of teaching them the true fundamentals and form. As long as the coaches are winning games, they don't care if his fundamentals/form are there. Otherwise, a guy like Tim Tebow doesn't go through 4 years of college without having his mechanics changed. Urban Meyer didn't give a shit about his mechanics because Tebow was running all over the place.

For guys like Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, that simply wasn't a option. They had to focus more on the form of passing to elevate their game at the position, and having a NFL QB as a dad probably helped with the instruction from as a small child.

For me, it's different. I don't think Cam Newton is a dummy because he's black. I think Cam Newton is a dummy because he had to cheat in Florida to get by with academics. Watching his interview with Jon Gruden made me cringe. I also think Tim Tebow is a dummy as well and he's white. They say Wonderlic scores aren't a good gauge, but I say otherwise.

Bottom line, I think the most important qualities for a NFL quarterback to have is:

1) Intelligence
2) Accuracy
3) Reaction time (progression reads/quick release)

Sure having a big gun and fast wheels makes for a great combo as well, but we've seen QBs become Hall of Famers without those two traits. In the end, we need to take away the color from a player and focus on their strengths and weaknesses. They are all unique and vary from person to person, regardless of their color.

Based on what you're alluding to we should draft an Asian QB since they blow the doors off of anyone when it comes to IQ and standardized tests?

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Just a reminder where it all started:

Black Quarterback Pioneer: Remembering James Harris - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com

In addition to his skill on the field, the guy was instrumental in assembling the successfull Ravens & Jaguars teams of the 2000's. I would suggest he has a little "Football IQ".

I forget all about James Harris and I always think of Doug....Sorry James! He was quite a revelation at the time.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I forget all about James Harris and I always think of Doug....Sorry James! He was quite a revelation at the time.

Joe Gilliam for the Steelers was pretty good, except get got into drugs and ruined his career