Gibbs the GM

Schneed10 · 10-11-2005, 10:14 AM

Moves made under Joe Gibbs:

Traded for:
Mark Brunell
James Thrash
Clinton Portis
Santana Moss

Drafted:
Sean Taylor
Chris Cooley
Carlos Rogers
Jason Campbell

Signed:
Marcus Washington
Cornelius Griffin
Shawn Springs
Walt Harris
David Patten
Pierson Prioleau

Traded Away:
Rod Gardner
Laveraneus Coles
Champ Bailey

Numerous undrafted free agents.

Questions answered:
Do we miss Champ? No.

Do we miss Smoot? No.

Do we miss Antonio Pierce? Maybe just a little, but Marshall is a much better value.

Were the WRs upgraded? Yes, Moss is better than Coles.

Has the game passed Gibbs by? NO WAY.

And most importantly, should we change the current GM alignment where Gibbs makes the calls with input from Cerrato, his coaches, and heavy input from Gregg Williams? NO.

TheMalcolmConnection · 10-11-2005, 10:21 AM

You could have just said "I told you so."

Seriously though, very good points. I've never really entered into the "Gibbs shouldn't be GM" debate, but if the above is any indication, you MIGHT say he's made some winning moves.

gortiz · 10-11-2005, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Moves made under Joe Gibbs:

Traded for:
Mark Brunell
James Thrash
Clinton Portis
Santana Moss

Drafted:
Sean Taylor
Chris Cooley
Carlos Rogers
Jason Campbell

Signed:
Marcus Washington
Cornelius Griffin
Shawn Springs
Walt Harris
David Patten
Pierson Prioleau

Traded Away:
Rod Gardner
Laveraneus Coles
Champ Bailey

Numerous undrafted free agents.

Questions answered:
Do we miss Champ? No.

Do we miss Smoot? No.

Do we miss Antonio Pierce? Maybe just a little, but Marshall is a much better value.

Were the WRs upgraded? Yes, Moss is better than Coles.

Has the game passed Gibbs by? NO WAY.

And most importantly, should we change the current GM alignment where Gibbs makes the calls with input from Cerrato, his coaches, and heavy input from Gregg Williams? NO.

People are really sleeping on the team that Joe has assembled, don't forget, Nemo is lurking around back there, who knows when he will break out, I'm sure people didn't think Willie Parker would do much ... so lets wait and see.

#56fanatic · 10-11-2005, 10:32 AM

The moves most if not all of us questioned last year, seem to be the right ones. I like Portis alot, I think he is a good back, but what if we traded for Alexander instead, and still had the 2nd round pick, or what if we gave Bailey the cash and used Betts as the primary RB. I dont know if it would make a difference or not, but I have thought about that for a while. But I do agree on everything else, great draft picks, good deals w/ Moss. and the free agent pick ups last year for the D have been next to genious.

MTK · 10-11-2005, 11:00 AM

Nice summary there Schneed10, once you see all the moves layed out like that it's tough to argue that the personnel moves haven't been very good. I guess my only complaint would be with our later round picks, we've wiffed on a few like McCune, Newberry, Wilson, etc.

I'd add that we miss Smoot a little, but only because of our injuries. If Harris was 100% then no I don't think we miss Smooty at all.

That Guy · 10-11-2005, 11:00 AM

you left out a lot of moves too

and right now i'd say we ARE missing champ and smoot, at least, we were on sunday.

Overall its more positives than negatives, we still throw away draft picks too easily and we gave brunell a bigger contract than he asked for (how often does that happen? "I'd like a 5mill bonus sir"... 'HERE, TAKE 8!!!!!').

fiore, vaughn, barrow, letting wilds go so we could start the ade, wasting our draft picks on people that didn't even make the roster... big lavar contract so he can warm the bench.

the bad moves are fairly inconsequential now that brunell has stepped up. But we've still overspent (though not AS zealously) in many cases.

MTK · 10-11-2005, 11:13 AM

I don't recall Brunell only asking for $5M... either way I think the hype over his contract is really overblown anyway.

On the surface it was a 7 year deal for $43M with a bonus of $8.6M.

The deal will essentially be a 3 year deal for approx. $10M and we'll end up eating about $4.9M of his bonus.

#56fanatic · 10-11-2005, 11:29 AM

thats just it, we eat so much money on these contracts. Coles we ate about 9mil, and with all the LaVar stuff it sounds like we are going to eat aprox. 12mil. what about Brunell, which will be around 4 or 5 mil. This is why I think we need to have a GM or someone more familiar with the cap than Joe. Trotter we ate a bit of that contract too. Not saying Joe can not do this, but somebody that has been in the league the last 5 to 10 years may have a better grasp of the Cap and how it works. And how to spend money WISELY. We all know Dan and Vinny live in a fantasy football world and it is going to catch up with us eventually, like in two years.

Hog1 · 10-11-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Moves made under Joe Gibbs:

Traded for:
Mark Brunell
James Thrash
Clinton Portis
Santana Moss

Drafted:
Sean Taylor
Chris Cooley
Carlos Rogers
Jason Campbell

Signed:
Marcus Washington
Cornelius Griffin
Shawn Springs
Walt Harris
David Patten
Pierson Prioleau

Traded Away:
Rod Gardner
Laveraneus Coles
Champ Bailey

Numerous undrafted free agents.

Questions answered:
Do we miss Champ? No.

Do we miss Smoot? No.

Do we miss Antonio Pierce? Maybe just a little, but Marshall is a much better value.

Were the WRs upgraded? Yes, Moss is better than Coles.

Has the game passed Gibbs by? NO WAY.

And most importantly, should we change the current GM alignment where Gibbs makes the calls with input from Cerrato, his coaches, and heavy input from Gregg Williams? NO.

Killer Post S10. It's easy in the heat of battle to to debate all the "stupid moves Gibbs made". We rarely look back to measure those moves in hindsight! Looks much different than they did a couple of months ago!!!!!!!!!!!!

MTK · 10-11-2005, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

thats just it, we eat so much money on these contracts. Coles we ate about 9mil, and with all the LaVar stuff it sounds like we are going to eat aprox. 12mil. what about Brunell, which will be around 4 or 5 mil. This is why I think we need to have a GM or someone more familiar with the cap than Joe. Trotter we ate a bit of that contract too. Not saying Joe can not do this, but somebody that has been in the league the last 5 to 10 years may have a better grasp of the Cap and how it works. And how to spend money WISELY. We all know Dan and Vinny live in a fantasy football world and it is going to catch up with us eventually, like in two years.

Gibbs doesn't handle the cap stuff, that's Snyder's department.

People have been saying for years now that the cap will "catch up" with us, well Snyder has been running the team and managing the cap pretty well since 1999. Where is this salary cap hell?? The answer is it's not going to happen because Snyder actually has a clue when it comes to managing the cap and he always has a 3 year plan in place. They know when they sign someone how it's going to effect the cap down the road and they structure the contracts accordingly.

Gmanc711 · 10-11-2005, 12:01 PM

To be honest, I miss Fred Smoot when you ask that question. He was one of my favorite players, and I think based on last week we could have used him. In time, Rogers will be better, but i'd take smoot right now.

Schneed10 · 10-11-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

you left out a lot of moves too

and right now i'd say we ARE missing champ and smoot, at least, we were on sunday.

Overall its more positives than negatives, we still throw away draft picks too easily and we gave brunell a bigger contract than he asked for (how often does that happen? "I'd like a 5mill bonus sir"... 'HERE, TAKE 8!!!!!').

fiore, vaughn, barrow, letting wilds go so we could start the ade, wasting our draft picks on people that didn't even make the roster... big lavar contract so he can warm the bench.

the bad moves are fairly inconsequential now that brunell has stepped up. But we've still overspent (though not AS zealously) in many cases.

I'm not sure how much we were missing Champ and Smoot on Sunday. Harris was out all game, and Springs left in the first quarter. We still held the Plummer under 100 yards passing with Rogers and The Ade starting most of the game. Granted it was wet and difficult to throw, but Brunell managed to throw pretty well. Plummer was stymied.

Now looking at next week with Springs in question and Harris just coming back, I'm sure we'd all feel better having Smoot or Champ waiting in the wings. But that's just not practical to have so many stud CBs on one roster.

I like Rogers for his cover abilities. I'm not sure he's the greatest in run support yet, I think he was responsible for losing outside containment against Bell on one of those TD runs. But for a nickel he's good, and will only get better. He's no Tom Carter.

Schneed10 · 10-11-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Nice summary there Schneed10, once you see all the moves layed out like that it's tough to argue that the personnel moves haven't been very good. I guess my only complaint would be with our later round picks, we've wiffed on a few like McCune, Newberry, Wilson, etc.

I'd add that we miss Smoot a little, but only because of our injuries. If Harris was 100% then no I don't think we miss Smooty at all.

I tried not to list the late round picks because IMO the jury is still out on a lot of them. On McCune, I think it was Gibbs' intention all along that the guy would need some serious training before he could be expected to contribute. He's a physical monster but not that polished yet. With time on the practice squad he could still do damage for us next year. On Molinaro and Wilson, it is definitely hard to crack the lineup when Jansen and Samuels are your starters. I know Wilson got cut, so consider him a whiff. But Molinaro is hanging around, and he just might prove himself if one of our starters goes down. I don't like calling guys whiffs without giving them a full chance to prove themselves (ie Mark Brunell last year) Newberry was a definite wiff though. Cutting Chad Morton for Antonio Brown seems like a bit of a whiff too.

Certainly Gibbs the GM is not perfect, but given that we're 3-1, and a very competitive and well-balanced team, it's hard to argue that, overall, Gibbs the GM isn't doing a great job.

paulskinsfan · 10-11-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

you left out a lot of moves too

and right now i'd say we ARE missing champ and smoot, at least, we were on sunday.

Overall its more positives than negatives, we still throw away draft picks too easily and we gave brunell a bigger contract than he asked for (how often does that happen? "I'd like a 5mill bonus sir"... 'HERE, TAKE 8!!!!!').

fiore, vaughn, barrow, letting wilds go so we could start the ade, wasting our draft picks on people that didn't even make the roster... big lavar contract so he can warm the bench.

the bad moves are fairly inconsequential now that brunell has stepped up. But we've still overspent (though not AS zealously) in many cases.

I agree. While Gibbs definitely has the team going in the right direction, this thread ignores the fact that we have traded away picks like candy and our mid round draft picks have blown. Brunnell trade, and throw in a pick, Portis trade, and throw in a pick. Jason Campbell, how can you say he is a successful pick when he hasn't taken the field? We gave up a HUGE amount to take Campbell, and I still believe we would've been better served drafting a pass rusher. All Im saying is, we as fans are quick to pile on when things are bad, and even quicker to jump aboard the bandwagon when things are good. To blindly say that Gibbs is a great GM because we are 3-1 ignores some of his poor decisions. That being said, I hope mortgaging our future doesn't come back to bite us in the ass.

#56fanatic · 10-11-2005, 12:43 PM

When we keep reworking these deals, like brunell, jansen, and these guys it just keeps putting off the cap hits. The first couple of years on these contracts are so minimal that the salaries dont hurt us that much. Its the 4 and 5th years of these contracts that kills the cap. in the case of some of these players, they never get to the 4th and 5th years because we rework them. LaVar has done it in the past. Twice counting the last contract. Brunell did it this year, and he has only been here 2 years. Dont you remember how long it took the 49ers to straighten out there mess. What I am saying is Gibbs wants somebody and Danny doesn't say no, vinny doesn't say no, they just go get them, then get someone to rework their current deal. We can not keep reworking contracts every year and avoiding those 4th and 5th years. Portis' contract is like that, Moss is like that. All these guys getting these huge contracts have backloaded deals where they are like 1 to 3 million in the first couple then balloon to 6 to 9 million. Like Coles last year, we had to eat what was left on the signing bonus, and that 9 million. We can't keep doing that to try and make a run, I like Dan and wouldn't want a different owner but you can't help but admire teams like the Pats, Eagles, Bengles, that build through the draft, then pick maybe one or two free agents that put them over the top. Dallas just got out of all that cap problem stuff last year.

10-11-2005, 10:14 AM	#1
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 45 Posts: 12,421	Gibbs the GM Moves made under Joe Gibbs: Traded for: Mark Brunell James Thrash Clinton Portis Santana Moss Drafted: Sean Taylor Chris Cooley Carlos Rogers Jason Campbell Signed: Marcus Washington Cornelius Griffin Shawn Springs Walt Harris David Patten Pierson Prioleau Traded Away: Rod Gardner Laveraneus Coles Champ Bailey Numerous undrafted free agents. Questions answered: Do we miss Champ? No. Do we miss Smoot? No. Do we miss Antonio Pierce? Maybe just a little, but Marshall is a much better value. Were the WRs upgraded? Yes, Moss is better than Coles. Has the game passed Gibbs by? NO WAY. And most importantly, should we change the current GM alignment where Gibbs makes the calls with input from Cerrato, his coaches, and heavy input from Gregg Williams? NO.

10-11-2005, 10:21 AM	#2
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,225	Re: Gibbs the GM You could have just said "I told you so." Seriously though, very good points. I've never really entered into the "Gibbs shouldn't be GM" debate, but if the above is any indication, you MIGHT say he's made some winning moves. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

10-11-2005, 10:32 AM	#4
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: Gibbs the GM The moves most if not all of us questioned last year, seem to be the right ones. I like Portis alot, I think he is a good back, but what if we traded for Alexander instead, and still had the 2nd round pick, or what if we gave Bailey the cash and used Betts as the primary RB. I dont know if it would make a difference or not, but I have thought about that for a while. But I do agree on everything else, great draft picks, good deals w/ Moss. and the free agent pick ups last year for the D have been next to genious.

10-11-2005, 11:00 AM	#6
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	Re: Gibbs the GM you left out a lot of moves too and right now i'd say we ARE missing champ and smoot, at least, we were on sunday. Overall its more positives than negatives, we still throw away draft picks too easily and we gave brunell a bigger contract than he asked for (how often does that happen? "I'd like a 5mill bonus sir"... 'HERE, TAKE 8!!!!!'). fiore, vaughn, barrow, letting wilds go so we could start the ade, wasting our draft picks on people that didn't even make the roster... big lavar contract so he can warm the bench. the bad moves are fairly inconsequential now that brunell has stepped up. But we've still overspent (though not AS zealously) in many cases.

10-11-2005, 11:13 AM	#7
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	Re: Gibbs the GM I don't recall Brunell only asking for $5M... either way I think the hype over his contract is really overblown anyway. On the surface it was a 7 year deal for $43M with a bonus of $8.6M. The deal will essentially be a 3 year deal for approx. $10M and we'll end up eating about $4.9M of his bonus. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

10-11-2005, 11:00 AM	#5
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	Re: Gibbs the GM Nice summary there Schneed10, once you see all the moves layed out like that it's tough to argue that the personnel moves haven't been very good. I guess my only complaint would be with our later round picks, we've wiffed on a few like McCune, Newberry, Wilson, etc. I'd add that we miss Smoot a little, but only because of our injuries. If Harris was 100% then no I don't think we miss Smooty at all. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

10-11-2005, 11:29 AM	#8
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: Gibbs the GM thats just it, we eat so much money on these contracts. Coles we ate about 9mil, and with all the LaVar stuff it sounds like we are going to eat aprox. 12mil. what about Brunell, which will be around 4 or 5 mil. This is why I think we need to have a GM or someone more familiar with the cap than Joe. Trotter we ate a bit of that contract too. Not saying Joe can not do this, but somebody that has been in the league the last 5 to 10 years may have a better grasp of the Cap and how it works. And how to spend money WISELY. We all know Dan and Vinny live in a fantasy football world and it is going to catch up with us eventually, like in two years.

10-11-2005, 12:01 PM	#11
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	Re: Gibbs the GM To be honest, I miss Fred Smoot when you ask that question. He was one of my favorite players, and I think based on last week we could have used him. In time, Rogers will be better, but i'd take smoot right now. __________________ #21

10-11-2005, 12:43 PM	#15
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: Gibbs the GM When we keep reworking these deals, like brunell, jansen, and these guys it just keeps putting off the cap hits. The first couple of years on these contracts are so minimal that the salaries dont hurt us that much. Its the 4 and 5th years of these contracts that kills the cap. in the case of some of these players, they never get to the 4th and 5th years because we rework them. LaVar has done it in the past. Twice counting the last contract. Brunell did it this year, and he has only been here 2 years. Dont you remember how long it took the 49ers to straighten out there mess. What I am saying is Gibbs wants somebody and Danny doesn't say no, vinny doesn't say no, they just go get them, then get someone to rework their current deal. We can not keep reworking contracts every year and avoiding those 4th and 5th years. Portis' contract is like that, Moss is like that. All these guys getting these huge contracts have backloaded deals where they are like 1 to 3 million in the first couple then balloon to 6 to 9 million. Like Coles last year, we had to eat what was left on the signing bonus, and that 9 million. We can't keep doing that to try and make a run, I like Dan and wouldn't want a different owner but you can't help but admire teams like the Pats, Eagles, Bengles, that build through the draft, then pick maybe one or two free agents that put them over the top. Dallas just got out of all that cap problem stuff last year.

Gibbs the GM

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