The foreign affairs thread

[mooby]

In light of the upcoming invasion of the Ukraine, seems like we could use a good thread to talk about foreign affairs.

I'm just using this as an excuse to ask why Tucker Carlson feels the need to stand up for mother Russia.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...hWm?li=BBnb7Kz

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by mooby

In light of the upcoming invasion of the Ukraine, seems like we could use a good thread to talk about foreign affairs.

I'm just using this as an excuse to ask why Tucker Carlson feels the need to stand up for mother Russia.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...hWm?li=BBnb7Kz

Local station down here in the DC metro area WTOP was saying that this is a big game of Chicken . In short ,Russia doesn't want to invade but wants Ukraine not to join NATO(the big point) the west says it's not an option, now the US has upped the readiness of over 8700 troops.

[MTK]

I want to know which side of the debate M&M's are on? Tucker?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by MTK

I want to know which side of the debate M&M's are on? Tucker?

IIRC Tucker is upset because they rebranded the formerly sexy green M&M as the now gender neutral green M&M. I too don't want to live in the world where I can't fantasize about sexually attractive M&M's. Keep fighting the good fight Tucker.

[nonniey]

Weak displays and action invites this sort of behavior. I posted back in August this would happen and I specifically used Russia and the Ukraine as an example.

[SunnySide]

President Biden reacts strongly = conservatives say he wants a foreign affair to distract from his polling numbers

President Biden reacts diplomatically/sanctions = conservatives say his weakness is an invitation to Putin

C'est la vie ...

Russia, NK, Iran, China, Israel, SA ... same annoying attention-seeking foreign affair rash that keeps coming back year after year, regardless of who is president

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

President Biden reacts strongly = conservatives say he wants a foreign affair to distract from his polling numbers

President Biden reacts diplomatically/sanctions = conservatives say his weakness is an invitation to Putin

C'est la vie ...

Russia, NK, Iran, China, Israel, SA ... same annoying attention-seeking foreign affair rash that keeps coming back year after year, regardless of who is president

I have no issues with his reaction now (so far), but it was his previous actions that invited it in the first place. And again I'd like to point out that this is something I said would happen last year at the time Biden was making those errors.

[SunnySide]

Russia is going to Russia.

President Biden cancelling Trumps withdrawl order or not in Afghanistan wouldnt change what Russia is doing now. Probably embolden Russia even more bc we would be having an active fight with Taliban and not the "cease fire" stuff, fox news would be hammering President Biden for every death saying he shouldnt have ripped up Trumps withdrawl.

Goes forward with withdrawl = weak and invites Putin
Cancels withdrawl = war monger with blood on his hands, foreing intervention only creates foreign conflict blah blah blah

Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Your political opponents and their base will fault you either way you go.

Russia is going to Russia. China is going to China. Iran is going Iran.

Same cycle for decades now it seems.

Annoying rashes that come and go.

[Chico23231]

Of course Russia is going to Russia when Biden is in office. Just like when Russia kicked Obama’s weak ass all over the world, including Ukraine. Too simply think this isn’t a strategy is laughable.

Just strange how Democrats claimed the previous administration was under Russian influence, why wouldn’t they have taken Ukraine then?

Make no mistake, Russia and other world powers see a weak President

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Of course Russia is going to Russia when Biden is in office. Just like when Russia kicked Obama’s weak ass all over the world, including Ukraine. Too simply think this isn’t a strategy is laughable.

Just strange how Democrats claimed the previous administration was under Russian influence, why wouldn’t they have taken Ukraine then?

Make no mistake, Russia and other world powers see a weak President

FO, the weak President was the one selling us down the drain to his comrade putin but he lost his re-election bid.

[punch it in]

Putin is trying everything he can to get his guy back in office. He is going to make things extremely difficult for Biden. He is already. It is so fuckin obvious. All Putin wants to see is people over here saying “this would never happen if Trump were in office “. It is literally psychology 101. Playing the Trumpers like fiddles. If you think Putin doesn’t want Trump back in office in 2024 u are not thinking.

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Putin is trying everything he can to get his guy back in office. He is going to make things extremely difficult for Biden. He is already. It is so fuckin obvious. All Putin wants to see is people over here saying “this would never happen if Trump were in office “. It is literally psychology 101. Playing the Trumpers like fiddles. If you think Putin doesn’t want Trump back in office in 2024 u are not thinking.

Ukraine? Trump was angry with the Ukrainians and given his personality he'd have told Putin to go ahead and invade, US interests be damned. If you visit FreeRepublic you'll see this reflected in his most devoted supporters (Many of those who post there outright want the US to take Russia's side (makes one wonder if Russian Bots are present there)). That said Biden brought on this aggressive action due to his weak ass decisions in the foreign arena last year.

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Of course Russia is going to Russia when Biden is in office. Just like when Russia kicked Obama’s weak ass all over the world, including Ukraine. Too simply think this isn’t a strategy is laughable.

Just strange how Democrats claimed the previous administration was under Russian influence, why wouldn’t they have taken Ukraine then?

Make no mistake, Russia and other world powers see a weak President

Because we gave them Syria, pulled troops out of Germany, agreed with the Taliban to withdrawl troops from Afghanistan, kissed Putins ass for RT as much as possible ...

We were good to Russia and our daddy pimp Putin didnt slap us around.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Because we gave them Syria, pulled troops out of Germany, agreed with the Taliban to withdrawl troops from Afghanistan, kissed Putins ass for RT as much as possible ...

We were good to Russia and our daddy pimp Putin didnt slap us around.

How much of that was done in the previous administration?

[Schneed10]

This thread would be a lot more interesting if we actually talked about the issue intelligently instead of bickering about how Trump would have handled it or how it's Biden's fault. Anybody have anything intelligent to offer about the actual situation?

I can't claim to be smart but I'll at least try...

There's the obvious historical ties between Russia and Ukraine and Putin wanting to restore what he looks at as a Russian state with pro-Russian sentiment (that he refuses to acknowledge is now more pro-European than it is pro-Russian).

But his bigger endgame is to back NATO away from Russia's borders and shrink its influence as the guarantor of security in Europe. He's particularly upset at the Baltic States having such a strong NATO presence and he wants to see force deployments in the Eastern part of NATO's sphere scaled back.

So this is brinksmanship. He has amassed troops near Ukraine like this before, back in April, and he pulled them back after a few weeks. Now he's doing it again and it's primarily motivated by trying to bring NATO to the table.

It's entirely possible though he moves into Ukraine and actually takes some of the territory just to show that he's not to be dismissed.

But amassing troops at the border also has another effect: instilling fear in Ukrainian citizens. In a nation that has a pro-European majority and a pro-Russian minority, fear can be a powerful motivator to shift the votes of the citizens to acquiescing and voting for a pro-Russian government again, next time an election comes up. If NATO and the US doesn't take action to secure Ukraine and make those citizens feel safer, with the might of western defenses supporting them, the votes of the people can easily drift towards Putin.

Biden has fumbled his statements but he needs to be taking strong positions that we won't just enact strong economic sanctions, but he needs to credibly threaten Russia that the United States and NATO will defend whoever they see fit. Now is a good time to send a carrier group into the Aegean Sea.