A question about Troy Aikman....

Redskins8588 · 06-02-2005, 03:00 AM

Today I was talking with my cousin, who happens to be a cowboy fan, and he was telling me that Troy Aikman was the most accurate passer in the NFL. I told him I dont know how anyone could make such an accusition. I mean where are the numbers to back this claim. Well, it turns out, that is what he was trying to ask me, how can Troy Aikman be labled as such?

I was thinking at first that it was his completion percentage, but like he pointed out, the ball can hit the reciever in the hands and if he drops it then that will go against the QB. Then I told him, it must be someones opinion that Aikman was/is the most accurate QB in the NFL. He then said no, because they advertise it on Aikmans products such as t-shirts and such.

I told him maybe Aikman won a QB challange or something like how our beloved D. Green is know as the NFL's fastest man. I know this is about the cowboys but I would love to prove to him that he is wrong, can anybody shed any light on this subject? Did Aikman win a QB challange which they gave him the title of most accruate passer, or is this just some broadcasters opinion?

offiss · 06-02-2005, 04:23 AM

Don't know for sure, but Montana was probably the most accurate passer I have seen, then Marino.

Redskins8588 · 06-02-2005, 04:32 AM

Yeah I agree that Aikman was not the most accurate passer, but he insists on this, so my question is if you do not accept pass completion percentage then how do you say who was the most accurate passer? Because like I posted befor, alot of times the QB puts the ball right on the spot and WR drop it, so that hurts the completion percentage...

GoSkins! · 06-02-2005, 07:59 AM

I think you just have to debate it... until after the5th beer in which case it may be time to fight about it!

MTK · 06-02-2005, 09:19 AM

I have to say, when Aikman was on he was definitely deadly accurate. As for being the most accurate ever? That's debateable.

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-02-2005, 09:28 AM

Pansiest QB? I don't think there's any debate about that at all.

firstdown · 06-02-2005, 10:56 AM

He was propably not the most accurate of all time but he was a great QB. I know we all hate th Boys but you have to give him credit as being a great QB. I think we all would of love to have a QB with his talents.

dirtbag2112 · 06-02-2005, 11:00 AM

As well as Mr. Smith in his prime.

Schneed10 · 06-02-2005, 01:02 PM

Aikman was a really accurate passer in his day. Matty's right, during his prime and when he was on, Aikman was hard to beat. But Montana was better.

I think you have to measure a couple things when you compare QB accuracy. First, completion percentage is important obviously. Dropped passes are equal when you're talking about two QBs like Troy Aikman and Joe Montana. They both played for so long that there isn't going to be a material difference in dropped passes.
The second component that is important is yards per completion. For example, if you're in an offense that throws underneath passes all day, your completion percentage may be high, but that's not so impressive in and of itself. If you're throwing deeper passes and still have a high completion percentage, now I'm really impressed.

Over their careers, Montana's career completion percentage was better, 63.2% compared to Aikman's 61.5%. Montana's career yards per completion was also better, at 11.9 compared with Aikman's 11.4.

Montana's best year for accuracy seemed to be in 1989 when he put up a 70.2% completion percentage with 13.0 yards per completion. Aikman's best came in 1993 when he put up a comparable 69.1% completion percentage, but his yards per completion that year wasn't as impressive at 11.4.

Montana definitely has him beat.

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-02-2005, 02:13 PM

Right, and just like Schneed said, they both played so long that the numbers seem to gel, but over that course of time, a YPC with .5 more is a LOT.

Schneed10 · 06-02-2005, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Right, and just like Schneed said, they both played so long that the numbers seem to gel, but over that course of time, a YPC with .5 more is a LOT.

Yeah. And even if you do think that the 0.5 YPC difference is a small difference, what's so impressive is the fact that Montana exhibited a better completion percentage in conjunction with the higher YPC.

skinsguy · 06-02-2005, 02:39 PM

I say Montana has to be the most accurate QB, but Aikmen does rank up there with guys like Joe, Marino, Bradshaw, etc...

Marino is probably the most impressive, because I don't remember him ever having someone like Jerry Rice, Lyn Swann, or Michael Ervin to throw to. I'm sure Duper and Clayton were good receivers, but probably not HOF type of guys.

gortiz · 06-02-2005, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Montana's career yards per completion was also better, at 11.9 compared with Aikman's 11.4.

Montana's best year for accuracy seemed to be in 1989 when he put up a 70.2% completion percentage with 13.0 yards per completion. Aikman's best came in 1993 when he put up a comparable 69.1% completion percentage, but his yards per completion that year wasn't as impressive at 11.4.

Montana definitely has him beat.

This my friends is impossible to tell, there is no way you can ever judge this. Passing accuracy falls into the same category as "bat speed" or "best jump shot" Using average yards per completion is no good. How many times have we all seen Jerry Rice catch a 6 yard slant and turn it into a 50 yard foot race! Also, you have to look at attempts, weather conditions, playing indoor/outdoor. Manning would not have the same numbers if he played in Buffalo. Quality of WR's? I mean, you can't do it. I remember a SI article a long time ago saying Bernie Kosar was crazy accurate, that might be something to look into, he played outdoors, never had WR's to speak of?

Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor · 06-02-2005, 03:51 PM

marino was good but i would not put him up there with aikman,young and montana. i do believe that aikman was dead on with his passes. he did have some talent around him but he is still one of the best of all time. i believe that im going to give him my vote for being the most accurate though. sorry guys!

Schneed10 · 06-02-2005, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gortiz

This my friends is impossible to tell, there is no way you can ever judge this. Passing accuracy falls into the same category as "bat speed" or "best jump shot" Using average yards per completion is no good. How many times have we all seen Jerry Rice catch a 6 yard slant and turn it into a 50 yard foot race! Also, you have to look at attempts, weather conditions, playing indoor/outdoor. Manning would not have the same numbers if he played in Buffalo. Quality of WR's? I mean, you can't do it. I remember a SI article a long time ago saying Bernie Kosar was crazy accurate, that might be something to look into, he played outdoors, never had WR's to speak of?

True enough about Jerry Rice, of course Michael Irvin made several plays in his day too. Irvin posted a 15.9 yards per catch average in his Dallas days. Jerry Rice, in the years in which Montana was his QB (Montana to Rice: 1985-1992), exhibited a 16.9 yards per catch. Both YPC numbers are excellent, but it's entirely possible that Jerry Rice was the difference between Montana's 11.9 and Aikman's 11.4.

Then again that's hard to say too, because Irvin and Aikman have a confounding statistical effect on one another, and so do Montana and Rice. It's like which is more accurate, Rice wouldn't have been Rice without Joe Montana, or Montana wouldn't have been Montana without Jerry Rice.

This makes my head hurt. You're right, it comes down to subjectivity.

06-02-2005, 03:00 AM	#1
Redskins8588 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ridgway, PA Age: 46 Posts: 2,519	A question about Troy Aikman.... Today I was talking with my cousin, who happens to be a cowboy fan, and he was telling me that Troy Aikman was the most accurate passer in the NFL. I told him I dont know how anyone could make such an accusition. I mean where are the numbers to back this claim. Well, it turns out, that is what he was trying to ask me, how can Troy Aikman be labled as such? I was thinking at first that it was his completion percentage, but like he pointed out, the ball can hit the reciever in the hands and if he drops it then that will go against the QB. Then I told him, it must be someones opinion that Aikman was/is the most accurate QB in the NFL. He then said no, because they advertise it on Aikmans products such as t-shirts and such. I told him maybe Aikman won a QB challange or something like how our beloved D. Green is know as the NFL's fastest man. I know this is about the cowboys but I would love to prove to him that he is wrong, can anybody shed any light on this subject? Did Aikman win a QB challange which they gave him the title of most accruate passer, or is this just some broadcasters opinion? __________________ "I am the best at what I do, and what I do isn't very nice" - Sean Taylor

06-02-2005, 04:23 AM	#2
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... Don't know for sure, but Montana was probably the most accurate passer I have seen, then Marino.

06-02-2005, 04:32 AM	#3
Redskins8588 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ridgway, PA Age: 46 Posts: 2,519	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... Yeah I agree that Aikman was not the most accurate passer, but he insists on this, so my question is if you do not accept pass completion percentage then how do you say who was the most accurate passer? Because like I posted befor, alot of times the QB puts the ball right on the spot and WR drop it, so that hurts the completion percentage... __________________ "I am the best at what I do, and what I do isn't very nice" - Sean Taylor

06-02-2005, 07:59 AM	#4
GoSkins! The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yorktown, Va Age: 55 Posts: 1,587	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... I think you just have to debate it... until after the5th beer in which case it may be time to fight about it! __________________ Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. A. Einstien

06-02-2005, 09:19 AM	#5
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,504	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... I have to say, when Aikman was on he was definitely deadly accurate. As for being the most accurate ever? That's debateable. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

06-02-2005, 09:28 AM	#6
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,225	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... Pansiest QB? I don't think there's any debate about that at all. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

06-02-2005, 10:56 AM	#7
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 60 Posts: 15,817	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... He was propably not the most accurate of all time but he was a great QB. I know we all hate th Boys but you have to give him credit as being a great QB. I think we all would of love to have a QB with his talents.

06-02-2005, 11:00 AM	#8
dirtbag2112 Special Teams Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 293	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... As well as Mr. Smith in his prime.

06-02-2005, 01:02 PM	#9
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 45 Posts: 12,421	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... Aikman was a really accurate passer in his day. Matty's right, during his prime and when he was on, Aikman was hard to beat. But Montana was better. I think you have to measure a couple things when you compare QB accuracy. First, completion percentage is important obviously. Dropped passes are equal when you're talking about two QBs like Troy Aikman and Joe Montana. They both played for so long that there isn't going to be a material difference in dropped passes. The second component that is important is yards per completion. For example, if you're in an offense that throws underneath passes all day, your completion percentage may be high, but that's not so impressive in and of itself. If you're throwing deeper passes and still have a high completion percentage, now I'm really impressed. Over their careers, Montana's career completion percentage was better, 63.2% compared to Aikman's 61.5%. Montana's career yards per completion was also better, at 11.9 compared with Aikman's 11.4. Montana's best year for accuracy seemed to be in 1989 when he put up a 70.2% completion percentage with 13.0 yards per completion. Aikman's best came in 1993 when he put up a comparable 69.1% completion percentage, but his yards per completion that year wasn't as impressive at 11.4. Montana definitely has him beat.

06-02-2005, 02:13 PM	#10
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,225	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... Right, and just like Schneed said, they both played so long that the numbers seem to gel, but over that course of time, a YPC with .5 more is a LOT. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

06-02-2005, 02:39 PM	#12
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... I say Montana has to be the most accurate QB, but Aikmen does rank up there with guys like Joe, Marino, Bradshaw, etc... Marino is probably the most impressive, because I don't remember him ever having someone like Jerry Rice, Lyn Swann, or Michael Ervin to throw to. I'm sure Duper and Clayton were good receivers, but probably not HOF type of guys. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

06-02-2005, 03:51 PM	#14
Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor Special Teams Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Queens Village, NY Age: 44 Posts: 349	Re: A question about Troy Aikman.... marino was good but i would not put him up there with aikman,young and montana. i do believe that aikman was dead on with his passes. he did have some talent around him but he is still one of the best of all time. i believe that im going to give him my vote for being the most accurate though. sorry guys!

A question about Troy Aikman....

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