Why the backstabbing?

Daseal · 03-10-2005, 11:58 PM

People on this forum one day talk about how great a player is, and the second the Redskins fail to give the player a matching offer all of a sudden the player sucks, will be burned, or my favorite, should be in a car accident.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Our precious Redskins didn't match Pierces and Smoot's contracts. Pierce I'm sure wasn't close, and Smoots deal looks to be structured very nicely by the Vikes to give him a lot of money.

These two players are players we had shots at but didn't want to pay them what the market dictated they were worth. The whole "well, he doesn't play as well as Springs" bullshit pisses me off for the reasons that Springs doesn't have the intangibles. He's not the leader, he doesn't have the locker room pressence, and Springs has a history of being accident prone where as if Smoot can breath Smoot will play.

If they didn't want to match it, there's nothing anyone can do to change their mind. This doesn't make that player a bad person, or worthy of losing their career. All of these guys were loved and fan favorites last year. I don't agree with them being gone, but should I wish them ill-will or automatically change my tone on how I view them as a person. Most people who play AREN'T FANS OF THE TEAM THEY PLAY ON. This is a job for them, if they grew up watching football there's a 1/32 chance it was the skins that was their team (I'm sure the #s are different, but damned if I'm going to find that out!)

I just feel it's horrible how people are demonizing great players because we couldn't/wouldn't match their market price. Coles I can see, but that doesn't mean he should be bed ridden for the rest of his life.

SmootSmack · 03-11-2005, 12:07 AM

I agree with you...though I think your wrong about Springs having a history of being accident prone

Daseal, If you ever left this board for LoveMeSomeSpurrier.com, I wouldn't wish you any ill will, though I'd be pissed that Matty didn't match the offer

KLHJ2 · 03-11-2005, 12:07 AM

Daseal, I understand where you are comming from, but if players cannot bitch about their own team:then what are they going to bitch about? Certainly not about the fans, because they would be talking about themselves. It is the players jobs to play and bitch about it, and the fans job to cheer and bitch about it. Can't we all just do our jobs and agree that if you leave that we are not going to get along?

It is supposed to read if fans cannot bitch about their own team: then........

That Guy · 03-11-2005, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

The whole "well, he doesn't play as well as Springs" bullshit pisses me off for the reasons that Springs doesn't have the intangibles. He's not the leader, he doesn't have the locker room pressence, and Springs has a history of being accident prone where as if Smoot can breath Smoot will play.

so you've been in the locker room to check that smoot really is a locker room leader? he talks a big game, but unless you've been in that locker... and i remember in spurriers 2nd year... smoot played hurt, but he played very poorly, so that's not really saying much. Last year they BOTH played injured... springs went and played through a concussion and he couldn't even button his own damn shirt after the game.

The reason people turned on them is because they spent so long talking about how they wanted to be here so bad, but it was out of there control, and LC turned into a real whiny a$$ B#$%# in 60 seconds flat. First offer, which gibbs says was close, pierce runs to the lights of NY and talks how great it is to be there. Smoot on the other hand said he would have rather stayed here, but the vikings offered him a ton more money the first three years, sso i can understand that.

saden1 · 03-11-2005, 12:29 AM

I agree with Daseal. I wouldn't want you bastards as my enemy! You're sharks. Big toothed and jaws that would put a man in endless mental spin. I'm afraid of you, you, and you!

JWsleep · 03-11-2005, 12:40 AM

I really don't think most people on the board are backstabiing and mad at either Smoot or Pierce (I could be wrong, but that's the vibe I got).

As for Coles, I feel we're pretty entitled to bitch!

And to tell the truth, for all the talk about "we we're only a few bucks away from Smoot, why didn't we raise out bid, etc." it runs the other way too. Why didn't Smoot take a little less so he could "bleed burgundy and gold"? The guys a multi-millionaire, and he's still got to get every last penny. I really liked Smoot, but he's no saint.

It's a business, and that's the facts. It's tough on us fans, because we get attached to players and then they follow the cash. We long for the days when players stuck around. I miss Monte Coleman, damn it. I miss the days when skins for life really could happen. So I'm going to bitch about it a little!!!

Anyways, here's some folks we can kick when down as a group! (Not that I wish back problems on anyone, but if its gotta happen, it might as well be a newly signed COWBOY free agent lineman...)

Mort: Rivera suffers pain exercising

FRPLG · 03-11-2005, 01:06 AM

I'd say "good luck" to Smoot, "can't wait to whoop up on you and the giants" to Pierce, and "screw off" to Coles. Smoot got a better deal plain and simple and can't be faulted. Pierce got a barely (really really barely) better offer and bolted. Coles Bent us over and had zero remorse about it. At least neither Smoot nor Pierce actually caused damage on the way out. Coles on the other hand showed his true colors and I think I and everyone else are entitled to be pissed off at him.

Daseal · 03-11-2005, 01:21 AM

I heard on the radio Coles had another meeting with Gibbs, felt good about it, then the WP leaked the story and Danny cussed him out which was when he knew it was done. He said that he was looking to come back until the story was leaked. According to one of the zillion radio programs I catch swapping through channels!

It's just how these guys go from heroes to being absolutely demonized is scary. Wishing physical harm and the end of a players career because he went where they were going to pay him more? It's how the NFL works now. I'm still pulling for Smoot/Pierce, just not when they play us!

I understand complaining and not liking it - it's when things start getting really serious that I wonder what's going on. That_Guy - all reports say Smoot is a locker room guy, the clips of the Redskins before games show no other than Smoot in the middle of the huddle riling them up, at the Pittsburgh game I was right behind the skins bench. I saw smoot with Portis and Taylor getting them ready, and calling out other players. It was refreshing to see a leader on the team. Looks like we're down to 0 leaders. I think Ramsey will be a fine leader for the offense, but our defense needs someone, and LaVar has yet to fill the roll. Maybe Springs, Taylor, Washington or Griffen can step up!

ST21 · 03-11-2005, 01:31 AM

to smoot and AP.....be gone and stay gone....

skinsguy · 03-11-2005, 01:55 AM

Well, I don't believe all the "stories" I hear on the radio. Oh, like the stories where Gibbs was going to quit after one season and so forth.

As far as the players, I really liked Smoot and I hate he left! I was very critical of him before this year....this was the first year he had really impressed me...before I thought he was all talk. I had hoped, and coach had hoped as well, that both Smoot and Pierce would have stayed. I don't blame them for going for the money...that's what 90% of the NFL players go for anyways.

Coles is a different story. I liked Coles and even when this mess first creeped into the media, I had hoped Coles would reconsider. But, the comment of "I didn't sign up for this." I don't believe that was a jokingly comment.

The way I see it is this: we can build shrines and temples for our favorite Redskins players, and while they are Redskins they may "love" the fans, but it's funny how those fans don't seem as important once they go sign a bigger multi-million dollar contract to play somewhere else.

Daseal · 03-11-2005, 02:11 AM

I can see the bitterness against Coles, because he was under contract and sneaked up on us. I think he'd still be our #1 receiver going into this year and we'd all be happy with it had the WP not leaked that story.

I think Coles liked Spurrier. A lot of the players liked him and thought he had a chance as a head coach. I personally think he can still make it in this league as a head coach (shocking to you guys, I know.) He simply treated his players like men, and not like boys as he should have. Gibbs worked all day and all night to get the same number of wins and a worse offense. Spurrier left early. What's the difference? The W column matters, not the office hours. Anyhow, even Ramsey said he thought Spurriers system could work. Everyone saw the abysmal line play and defensive woes. How many times did our defense lose the game in the final minutes for us last year? Replace Helston with Bugel and Edwards with Williams and things woulda been different.

I think all coaches should have at least 3 years to impliment their guys and their system fully. After that they better have shown SOME sort of improvement. Sorry for the rant, but I can understand his frustration with the system last year. I wasn't playing and I was frustrated!

jdlea · 03-11-2005, 02:20 AM

I agree with Daseal 100%. You all think it is fine for the organization to make business decisions, but God forbid a player make one. People are happy when we cut people who shouldn't be getting cut. See: Stephen Davis. And then when a player who is putting up numbers doesn't get the offer from the front office you all blame the player. I don't understand how this team's front office can do no wrong in the eyes of most of you. I hate the FO for this team. I don't know about Joe Gibbs and being a judge of talent. I know he can coach, but I don't know if he's GM material. I flat out hate that punk ass yes man Vinny Cerrato and I hate Dan Snyder.

Snyder disgusts me. I don't believe he's committed to winning one bit. I think he used to make a lot of moves that were strictly cosmetic and made us no better whatsoever. That has started to get cut back, but I don't like the way he does business. You can say, "well, he's successful. He must be doing something right." You'll just be proving my point about making cosmetic moves. The team isn't successful, but the franchise is. Why? Because the Skins have some of the most loyal fans in the NFL. Like me. I can't stop liking them despite the fact that I hate Snyder. I don't anyone who likes him, but most of you seem to love him. I don't get it. The Yankees of football, but we can't seem to win. More like the Washington Capitals before they unloaded everybody.

skinsfanthru&thru · 03-11-2005, 02:22 AM

I don't wish bodily harm to any players, current or former redskins, as well as rival players, but like many other fans, after hearing pierce and smoot talk so much about supposedly wanting to come back and feeling good about where the team was going and then at the first whiff of more money from another team they bolt. I understand for most of these guys that its a "get my money while I can" attitude, but I honestly didn't expect to see 2 key guys from our team say all the things they said and then leave so they could get more money or fame. These guys already have more than most of us will have in a lifetime, but it's always "I gotta get more while I can" and personally I hate that about pro athletes. Real team leaders take less to be with THEIR team(atleast for a short while), thats why I have mad respect for players like Darrel Green and Tony Gwynn, because they had chances to bail for more money and/or rings but they didn't. The guys who just left didn't show us loyalty(not that they really need to anyway) so I'm just returning the favor and giving them a nice up yours back at 'em. And the FO should in no way be bashed because they for once decided to keep the pay in check and not hand out contracts richer than those already on the team who are better players at the same or similar positions.
but then again that's just my

skinsfanthru&thru · 03-11-2005, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlea

I agree with Daseal 100%. You all think it is fine for the organization to make business decisions, but God forbid a player make one. People are happy when we cut people who shouldn't be getting cut. See: Stephen Davis.

the thing that was wrong about the davis situation was that spurrier didn't have nearly a good enough replacement to fill his spot, but Davis was nowhere even close to being worth the 10.5 million $ cap hit, or whatever insane amount it was, he would have taken up. and since then he's already broken down 2-3 times (didn't he miss most of last year?).

jdlea · 03-11-2005, 02:28 AM

Man, if I was Pierce I wouldn't have come back. If I was the Redskins...I wouldn't have brought Pierce back at the price the Giants were paying. He's not a playmaker just a good player. What do I even base that on? One year. One. He played for the league minimum and got it done in a contract year. That's not unusual. If I were Pierce I would feel like, "If they thought I could play I would have gotten a little more money or a few more years last year." I don't think Pierce is a difference maker. I heard some guy call Sirius and go off about the Skins letting him get away. I don't think he's gonna hurt them that much. He was always in the right place and rarely made mistakes, but that's as far as it goes. He isn't a Pro Bowler, I don't know if he will be. Bottom Line: He isn't worth all that money because he showed up for 16 games.

03-11-2005, 12:07 AM	#2
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: Why the backstabbing? I agree with you...though I think your wrong about Springs having a history of being accident prone Daseal, If you ever left this board for LoveMeSomeSpurrier.com, I wouldn't wish you any ill will, though I'd be pissed that Matty didn't match the offer __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

03-11-2005, 12:07 AM	#3
KLHJ2 Inactive Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: DC Metro Area Age: 46 Posts: 5,829	Re: Why the backstabbing? Daseal, I understand where you are comming from, but if players cannot bitch about their own team:then what are they going to bitch about? Certainly not about the fans, because they would be talking about themselves. It is the players jobs to play and bitch about it, and the fans job to cheer and bitch about it. Can't we all just do our jobs and agree that if you leave that we are not going to get along? It is supposed to read if fans cannot bitch about their own team: then........

03-11-2005, 12:29 AM	#5
saden1 MVP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 45 Posts: 10,069	Re: Why the backstabbing? I agree with Daseal. I wouldn't want you bastards as my enemy! You're sharks. Big toothed and jaws that would put a man in endless mental spin. I'm afraid of you, you, and you!

03-11-2005, 12:40 AM	#6
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,714	Re: Why the backstabbing? I really don't think most people on the board are backstabiing and mad at either Smoot or Pierce (I could be wrong, but that's the vibe I got). As for Coles, I feel we're pretty entitled to bitch! And to tell the truth, for all the talk about "we we're only a few bucks away from Smoot, why didn't we raise out bid, etc." it runs the other way too. Why didn't Smoot take a little less so he could "bleed burgundy and gold"? The guys a multi-millionaire, and he's still got to get every last penny. I really liked Smoot, but he's no saint. It's a business, and that's the facts. It's tough on us fans, because we get attached to players and then they follow the cash. We long for the days when players stuck around. I miss Monte Coleman, damn it. I miss the days when skins for life really could happen. So I'm going to bitch about it a little!!! Anyways, here's some folks we can kick when down as a group! (Not that I wish back problems on anyone, but if its gotta happen, it might as well be a newly signed COWBOY free agent lineman...) Mort: Rivera suffers pain exercising __________________ Hail from Houston!

03-11-2005, 01:06 AM	#7
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	Re: Why the backstabbing? I'd say "good luck" to Smoot, "can't wait to whoop up on you and the giants" to Pierce, and "screw off" to Coles. Smoot got a better deal plain and simple and can't be faulted. Pierce got a barely (really really barely) better offer and bolted. Coles Bent us over and had zero remorse about it. At least neither Smoot nor Pierce actually caused damage on the way out. Coles on the other hand showed his true colors and I think I and everyone else are entitled to be pissed off at him.

03-10-2005, 11:58 PM	#1
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Why the backstabbing? People on this forum one day talk about how great a player is, and the second the Redskins fail to give the player a matching offer all of a sudden the player sucks, will be burned, or my favorite, should be in a car accident. This is absolutely ridiculous. Our precious Redskins didn't match Pierces and Smoot's contracts. Pierce I'm sure wasn't close, and Smoots deal looks to be structured very nicely by the Vikes to give him a lot of money. These two players are players we had shots at but didn't want to pay them what the market dictated they were worth. The whole "well, he doesn't play as well as Springs" bullshit pisses me off for the reasons that Springs doesn't have the intangibles. He's not the leader, he doesn't have the locker room pressence, and Springs has a history of being accident prone where as if Smoot can breath Smoot will play. If they didn't want to match it, there's nothing anyone can do to change their mind. This doesn't make that player a bad person, or worthy of losing their career. All of these guys were loved and fan favorites last year. I don't agree with them being gone, but should I wish them ill-will or automatically change my tone on how I view them as a person. Most people who play AREN'T FANS OF THE TEAM THEY PLAY ON. This is a job for them, if they grew up watching football there's a 1/32 chance it was the skins that was their team (I'm sure the #s are different, but damned if I'm going to find that out!) I just feel it's horrible how people are demonizing great players because we couldn't/wouldn't match their market price. Coles I can see, but that doesn't mean he should be bed ridden for the rest of his life.

03-11-2005, 01:21 AM	#8
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Re: Why the backstabbing? I heard on the radio Coles had another meeting with Gibbs, felt good about it, then the WP leaked the story and Danny cussed him out which was when he knew it was done. He said that he was looking to come back until the story was leaked. According to one of the zillion radio programs I catch swapping through channels! It's just how these guys go from heroes to being absolutely demonized is scary. Wishing physical harm and the end of a players career because he went where they were going to pay him more? It's how the NFL works now. I'm still pulling for Smoot/Pierce, just not when they play us! I understand complaining and not liking it - it's when things start getting really serious that I wonder what's going on. That_Guy - all reports say Smoot is a locker room guy, the clips of the Redskins before games show no other than Smoot in the middle of the huddle riling them up, at the Pittsburgh game I was right behind the skins bench. I saw smoot with Portis and Taylor getting them ready, and calling out other players. It was refreshing to see a leader on the team. Looks like we're down to 0 leaders. I think Ramsey will be a fine leader for the offense, but our defense needs someone, and LaVar has yet to fill the roll. Maybe Springs, Taylor, Washington or Griffen can step up!

03-11-2005, 01:31 AM	#9
ST21 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 519	Re: Why the backstabbing? to smoot and AP.....be gone and stay gone....

03-11-2005, 01:55 AM	#10
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: Why the backstabbing? Well, I don't believe all the "stories" I hear on the radio. Oh, like the stories where Gibbs was going to quit after one season and so forth. As far as the players, I really liked Smoot and I hate he left! I was very critical of him before this year....this was the first year he had really impressed me...before I thought he was all talk. I had hoped, and coach had hoped as well, that both Smoot and Pierce would have stayed. I don't blame them for going for the money...that's what 90% of the NFL players go for anyways. Coles is a different story. I liked Coles and even when this mess first creeped into the media, I had hoped Coles would reconsider. But, the comment of "I didn't sign up for this." I don't believe that was a jokingly comment. The way I see it is this: we can build shrines and temples for our favorite Redskins players, and while they are Redskins they may "love" the fans, but it's funny how those fans don't seem as important once they go sign a bigger multi-million dollar contract to play somewhere else. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

03-11-2005, 02:11 AM	#11
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Re: Why the backstabbing? I can see the bitterness against Coles, because he was under contract and sneaked up on us. I think he'd still be our #1 receiver going into this year and we'd all be happy with it had the WP not leaked that story. I think Coles liked Spurrier. A lot of the players liked him and thought he had a chance as a head coach. I personally think he can still make it in this league as a head coach (shocking to you guys, I know.) He simply treated his players like men, and not like boys as he should have. Gibbs worked all day and all night to get the same number of wins and a worse offense. Spurrier left early. What's the difference? The W column matters, not the office hours. Anyhow, even Ramsey said he thought Spurriers system could work. Everyone saw the abysmal line play and defensive woes. How many times did our defense lose the game in the final minutes for us last year? Replace Helston with Bugel and Edwards with Williams and things woulda been different. I think all coaches should have at least 3 years to impliment their guys and their system fully. After that they better have shown SOME sort of improvement. Sorry for the rant, but I can understand his frustration with the system last year. I wasn't playing and I was frustrated!

03-11-2005, 02:20 AM	#12
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 40 Posts: 3,109	Re: Why the backstabbing? I agree with Daseal 100%. You all think it is fine for the organization to make business decisions, but God forbid a player make one. People are happy when we cut people who shouldn't be getting cut. See: Stephen Davis. And then when a player who is putting up numbers doesn't get the offer from the front office you all blame the player. I don't understand how this team's front office can do no wrong in the eyes of most of you. I hate the FO for this team. I don't know about Joe Gibbs and being a judge of talent. I know he can coach, but I don't know if he's GM material. I flat out hate that punk ass yes man Vinny Cerrato and I hate Dan Snyder. Snyder disgusts me. I don't believe he's committed to winning one bit. I think he used to make a lot of moves that were strictly cosmetic and made us no better whatsoever. That has started to get cut back, but I don't like the way he does business. You can say, "well, he's successful. He must be doing something right." You'll just be proving my point about making cosmetic moves. The team isn't successful, but the franchise is. Why? Because the Skins have some of the most loyal fans in the NFL. Like me. I can't stop liking them despite the fact that I hate Snyder. I don't anyone who likes him, but most of you seem to love him. I don't get it. The Yankees of football, but we can't seem to win. More like the Washington Capitals before they unloaded everybody.

03-11-2005, 02:22 AM	#13
skinsfanthru&thru Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 44 Posts: 3,813	Re: Why the backstabbing? I don't wish bodily harm to any players, current or former redskins, as well as rival players, but like many other fans, after hearing pierce and smoot talk so much about supposedly wanting to come back and feeling good about where the team was going and then at the first whiff of more money from another team they bolt. I understand for most of these guys that its a "get my money while I can" attitude, but I honestly didn't expect to see 2 key guys from our team say all the things they said and then leave so they could get more money or fame. These guys already have more than most of us will have in a lifetime, but it's always "I gotta get more while I can" and personally I hate that about pro athletes. Real team leaders take less to be with THEIR team(atleast for a short while), thats why I have mad respect for players like Darrel Green and Tony Gwynn, because they had chances to bail for more money and/or rings but they didn't. The guys who just left didn't show us loyalty(not that they really need to anyway) so I'm just returning the favor and giving them a nice up yours back at 'em. And the FO should in no way be bashed because they for once decided to keep the pay in check and not hand out contracts richer than those already on the team who are better players at the same or similar positions. but then again that's just my

03-11-2005, 02:28 AM	#15
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 40 Posts: 3,109	Re: Why the backstabbing? Man, if I was Pierce I wouldn't have come back. If I was the Redskins...I wouldn't have brought Pierce back at the price the Giants were paying. He's not a playmaker just a good player. What do I even base that on? One year. One. He played for the league minimum and got it done in a contract year. That's not unusual. If I were Pierce I would feel like, "If they thought I could play I would have gotten a little more money or a few more years last year." I don't think Pierce is a difference maker. I heard some guy call Sirius and go off about the Skins letting him get away. I don't think he's gonna hurt them that much. He was always in the right place and rarely made mistakes, but that's as far as it goes. He isn't a Pro Bowler, I don't know if he will be. Bottom Line: He isn't worth all that money because he showed up for 16 games.

Why the backstabbing?

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