this team sucks

juggernaunt · 12-02-2004, 05:44 PM

i have been a loyal redskin fan my entire life, but this team is run like a lemonade stand. we buy and buy everyear and what do we have to show for it nothing.... so Daniel if you read this, You Must Fire Vinny Cerrato.

again i'm gonna preach that we have to cut the fat. if this was any other business how many people would have lost there jobs by now. this is a productivity world and for the amount of money i'm paying i'm getting nothing in return. its time to step back and re-build. Rebuild within, that means people that we dont go out and just buy players. that idea has been tired for 5 years and it hasnt worked. we must cut the following players, brunnell, barrow, morton, and daniels. i know its ALOT of dead cap space for 2005 but it needs to be done. next is we need players who want to play, players who have a someting to prove, they are young players... that means Draft picks. something were lacking agina this year. i hope we dont win another game. Why you ask? cause mike willaims the top player in this draft can be trade bait, ie san diego chargers 2 #1's. trade samuels, moliona will be more than ready. trade gardener i dont care if its for a 4 or 5th rounder. if someone wants him trade portis(look at denver do they miss him)no. take the salary cap hit w/ that. we NEED to build within.

hey Joe get a REAL GM, someone who knows talent not how much air pressure is need or how much wench needs to be turned. i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless things change around here WE WILL NEVER WIN.

skinsguy · 12-02-2004, 05:54 PM

I see your frustration, but the most logical thing we can do right now is to keep what we have with a couple of exceptions (gardner, Barrow), and have most of the same players coming back to play in the same system next year. It's not going to happen over night and recent history tells us that constant change is no key to victory. (refer to the 2000 season when Snyder took apart the 1999 division championship team.)

diehardskin2982 · 12-02-2004, 05:55 PM

Im sorry but I have to dissagree with some aspects of your arguement. It does start from within so I do feel we need a real GM and scouting office. But the cuts I don't think are necesary.

Portis definatly stays he's a star he the only shinning part of this offense. Samuels should stay give the line time to mature together just make sure everyone is healthy. Barrows can go he just came here to collect a pay day he knew his career was over. Brunnell Ramsey both can go start fresh with someone we can build around. the wr got talent they need a proven wr coach to show them the ropes and the team need more discipline whether they like it or not. Marty atleast coached them to an 8-8 season. not much has occured after that.

BrudLee · 12-02-2004, 06:00 PM

The problem with that is advocating massive turnover is no way to establish continuity.

The Pittsburgh Steelers were horrible last year. The are much better this year. It isn't entirely because of Roethlisberger. Their offensive line has played together for the past four years. Their WR's have played together for at least three. The person doing his job knows what the person next to him is going to do, because they did it last year, and the year before.

Are there too many underperformers on this team - yes. Some of them should go. Some should get another chance. Some have to stay, because dropping the four players you said we "must cut" would account for over $15 million on the cap. Some have legitimate injuries that have hampered production, or kept them off the field. If you were to trade Samuels, Gardner, and Portis in addition to those cuts, it would account for nearly $25 million in cap space.

Top to bottom, we have a top ten team talent-wise. Let them stay together (for once), in one system (for once), and see what happens.

Daseal · 12-02-2004, 06:16 PM

You say if this were any other business people would have lost their jobs. If you're the most profitable business in a lucrative field, you aren't firing anyone. Like it or not, we're the most valued football franchise at over 1Billion dollars. No one else breaks a billion.

Get rid of Portis? Is he telling Gibbs not to give him the ball? I doubt it, that's not exactly something I could see him saying. I think we should leave the team alone for the most part. Instead of trading Gardner try to trade Coles. You will hopefully be able to get more value for him and I seriously doubt he'll ever be what he was before the turf toe. Not to mention, his contract will be hell in a few years.

Samuels should be kicked out the door if he won't restructure. For a contract like that it may be hard to get a first rounder, but here's to hoping.

Draft for WRs, OLine, and DB depth. Dline is fine atm. We don't need stars up there. It's not part of the system. Honestly, I'm all for moving to a 3-4 since we have enough talent at LB to stick around.

Barrow is a big question mark. Pierce is playing great football and Barrow is a solid player. We can't get anyone to take over the contract, but Pierce hasn't done anything to give that MLB job away. I say we try to shop him, but who knows.

Priority #1: SIGN FRED SMOOT. He is key. Keep our defense in tact for the most part. Offense make a few key adjustments.

We don't need a GM. However, we need an O coordinator on par with Greg Williams as D coordinator. If anyone can get him, we can. That man is Charlie Weiss. We can make him assistant head coach offense or some bullshit to give him the job, pay him like a head-coach, and let the offense actually do something. He's done a lot more with a lot less.

jrocx69 · 12-02-2004, 06:42 PM

i say we make coles hit the IR now and start his surgery that is needed badly. the more time to heal the better. second we need to sign smoot very soon to make sure there isnt a chance of hitting the FA market. then we need to boot samuels, sorry, it has to be done. countless times he has f'd up this year on plays he needs to use his own common sense. then the draft... round 1: we need a speed rusher from the outside, guy from BC would be perfect. round 2: we need to look for a great left tackle and get him started right away. THERE WILL BE 2 TO 3 LT's THAT ARE VERY GOOD IN THE SEC0ND ROUND. round 3: we need a speedster WR and should be able to find one in the third,,, hell, coles was drafted in the third. then from round 4 on, we need to fill in holes from departed roll players and make the rooks learn from well known guys we have all over the field.

memphisskin · 12-02-2004, 06:43 PM

The only thing we need is lowered expectations. I know we say we have top 10 talent, but what we have is a top ten payroll, we are currently the 3rd worst team in the league. But I understand what you're saying, because no way our roster is the third worst in the league, but like Parcells said "you are what you are. if your record says you're 3-8, you're 3-8."

Re-sign Smoot, cut Samuels, keep Barrow (if he can come back otherwise cut him too), and by no means can we even contemplate trading Clinton Portis. Juggernaut, I think a fair punishment for you is to put a red bar of soap in your mouth and stand in the corner for bringing that up. But seriously, Portis is 23 and only going to get better. It's frustrating that he's not having the success he had in Denver, but no system I've ever seen made a move or broke a tackle or carried a ball so it must be Portis.

JWsleep · 12-02-2004, 06:56 PM

Easy, now. Continuity is what we've lacked over the last 5 years. I hate losing, too. I go to a sportsbar every weekend where the opposing giant, cowboy, and iggle fans all know "hail to the redskins" and sing it at us when things go badly. Man, do I want to get my revenge on these morons. But the only way there is with patience and hard work. And we're pretty well tied down in terms of money anyway.

Keep getting better each week, find what works with the players we've got, and sit the players who don't give their all. Sometimes, chemistry takes time.

CROOKEDSKINS · 12-02-2004, 06:57 PM

i understand all the frustration i feel it too
but we will get back to the top
we need to get rid of gardner
coles is a playmaker he needs to get the toe fixed but in all fairness
the only time he gets the ball with some place to move is on the screens
i too would get rid of barrow, pierce is playing reallly solid
and re singing smoot is a must and tradeing portis is not an option
jansen will be back next year and hopefully we can have some continuity on the o line
all of the good o lines in the league have been playing together for awhile and in the same system.give it some time 1 more year wont kill weve been waiting 13 allready

bedlamVR · 12-02-2004, 07:16 PM

If Samuels renegociates his contract to be more team friendly keep him he is still a V.Good LT. Remember this is a new blocking scheme for him too and he is starting next to the most inexperienced guy on the line. The only reason he didn't renegociate last year is because the team didn't really push it and he felt he was in a poor bargaining position having a down year and a year removed from the probowl.

juggernaunt · 12-02-2004, 08:26 PM

see your wrong, name me a running back that has left denver in the past 10 years that has gone to have similar #'s. there are none.... dont get me wrong portis is a good back top 5 but he's 2 damn small for our system. your gonna tell me that stephen jackson would've done less for us this year. cant say that but he would have cost 10x's less.

BIGREDSKINFAN63 · 12-02-2004, 08:40 PM

they are'nt that bad,with a few more breaks,and a lot less officiating blunders,under& over rthrows and all in all bad luck,they could easily be at 500 now.

wolfeskins · 12-02-2004, 08:51 PM

the skins don't need an overhaul, they just need time. take a look at the teams doing really well this year ( eagles, steelers, etc. ) they have had basically the same core group of guys ( players and coaches ) for a couple of years.

Redskins8588 · 12-02-2004, 09:12 PM

Just curious but was Emmit Smith a system back? I tend to belive that he was. I am not trying to say that Protis is Emmit or anything, just seeing what people think.

Daseal · 12-02-2004, 09:16 PM

Hard to say 8588. Besides Arizona you never saw him in another pro system in his prime. I'm positive if he didn't have that line, fullback, and QB/Receiver threat that he wouldn't be today's all-time leading rusher.

12-02-2004, 05:55 PM	#3
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	Im sorry but I have to dissagree with some aspects of your arguement. It does start from within so I do feel we need a real GM and scouting office. But the cuts I don't think are necesary. Portis definatly stays he's a star he the only shinning part of this offense. Samuels should stay give the line time to mature together just make sure everyone is healthy. Barrows can go he just came here to collect a pay day he knew his career was over. Brunnell Ramsey both can go start fresh with someone we can build around. the wr got talent they need a proven wr coach to show them the ropes and the team need more discipline whether they like it or not. Marty atleast coached them to an 8-8 season. not much has occured after that. __________________ That got ugly fast

12-02-2004, 06:00 PM	#4
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	The problem with that is advocating massive turnover is no way to establish continuity. The Pittsburgh Steelers were horrible last year. The are much better this year. It isn't entirely because of Roethlisberger. Their offensive line has played together for the past four years. Their WR's have played together for at least three. The person doing his job knows what the person next to him is going to do, because they did it last year, and the year before. Are there too many underperformers on this team - yes. Some of them should go. Some should get another chance. Some have to stay, because dropping the four players you said we "must cut" would account for over $15 million on the cap. Some have legitimate injuries that have hampered production, or kept them off the field. If you were to trade Samuels, Gardner, and Portis in addition to those cuts, it would account for nearly $25 million in cap space. Top to bottom, we have a top ten team talent-wise. Let them stay together (for once), in one system (for once), and see what happens. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

12-02-2004, 06:56 PM	#8
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,714	Easy, now. Continuity is what we've lacked over the last 5 years. I hate losing, too. I go to a sportsbar every weekend where the opposing giant, cowboy, and iggle fans all know "hail to the redskins" and sing it at us when things go badly. Man, do I want to get my revenge on these morons. But the only way there is with patience and hard work. And we're pretty well tied down in terms of money anyway. Keep getting better each week, find what works with the players we've got, and sit the players who don't give their all. Sometimes, chemistry takes time. __________________ Hail from Houston!

12-02-2004, 08:40 PM	#12
BIGREDSKINFAN63 Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: bassett-va Age: 61 Posts: 289	they are'nt that bad,with a few more breaks,and a lot less officiating blunders,under& over rthrows and all in all bad luck,they could easily be at 500 now. __________________ "7 days without the redskins, makes one weak!!!"

12-02-2004, 09:12 PM	#14
Redskins8588 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ridgway, PA Age: 46 Posts: 2,519	Just curious but was Emmit Smith a system back? I tend to belive that he was. I am not trying to say that Protis is Emmit or anything, just seeing what people think. __________________ "I am the best at what I do, and what I do isn't very nice" - Sean Taylor

12-02-2004, 05:44 PM	#1
juggernaunt Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 47	this team sucks i have been a loyal redskin fan my entire life, but this team is run like a lemonade stand. we buy and buy everyear and what do we have to show for it nothing.... so Daniel if you read this, You Must Fire Vinny Cerrato. again i'm gonna preach that we have to cut the fat. if this was any other business how many people would have lost there jobs by now. this is a productivity world and for the amount of money i'm paying i'm getting nothing in return. its time to step back and re-build. Rebuild within, that means people that we dont go out and just buy players. that idea has been tired for 5 years and it hasnt worked. we must cut the following players, brunnell, barrow, morton, and daniels. i know its ALOT of dead cap space for 2005 but it needs to be done. next is we need players who want to play, players who have a someting to prove, they are young players... that means Draft picks. something were lacking agina this year. i hope we dont win another game. Why you ask? cause mike willaims the top player in this draft can be trade bait, ie san diego chargers 2 #1's. trade samuels, moliona will be more than ready. trade gardener i dont care if its for a 4 or 5th rounder. if someone wants him trade portis(look at denver do they miss him)no. take the salary cap hit w/ that. we NEED to build within. hey Joe get a REAL GM, someone who knows talent not how much air pressure is need or how much wench needs to be turned. i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless things change around here WE WILL NEVER WIN.

12-02-2004, 05:54 PM	#2
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	I see your frustration, but the most logical thing we can do right now is to keep what we have with a couple of exceptions (gardner, Barrow), and have most of the same players coming back to play in the same system next year. It's not going to happen over night and recent history tells us that constant change is no key to victory. (refer to the 2000 season when Snyder took apart the 1999 division championship team.)

12-02-2004, 06:16 PM	#5
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	You say if this were any other business people would have lost their jobs. If you're the most profitable business in a lucrative field, you aren't firing anyone. Like it or not, we're the most valued football franchise at over 1Billion dollars. No one else breaks a billion. Get rid of Portis? Is he telling Gibbs not to give him the ball? I doubt it, that's not exactly something I could see him saying. I think we should leave the team alone for the most part. Instead of trading Gardner try to trade Coles. You will hopefully be able to get more value for him and I seriously doubt he'll ever be what he was before the turf toe. Not to mention, his contract will be hell in a few years. Samuels should be kicked out the door if he won't restructure. For a contract like that it may be hard to get a first rounder, but here's to hoping. Draft for WRs, OLine, and DB depth. Dline is fine atm. We don't need stars up there. It's not part of the system. Honestly, I'm all for moving to a 3-4 since we have enough talent at LB to stick around. Barrow is a big question mark. Pierce is playing great football and Barrow is a solid player. We can't get anyone to take over the contract, but Pierce hasn't done anything to give that MLB job away. I say we try to shop him, but who knows. Priority #1: SIGN FRED SMOOT. He is key. Keep our defense in tact for the most part. Offense make a few key adjustments. We don't need a GM. However, we need an O coordinator on par with Greg Williams as D coordinator. If anyone can get him, we can. That man is Charlie Weiss. We can make him assistant head coach offense or some bullshit to give him the job, pay him like a head-coach, and let the offense actually do something. He's done a lot more with a lot less.

12-02-2004, 06:42 PM	#6
jrocx69 Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas Age: 43 Posts: 461	i say we make coles hit the IR now and start his surgery that is needed badly. the more time to heal the better. second we need to sign smoot very soon to make sure there isnt a chance of hitting the FA market. then we need to boot samuels, sorry, it has to be done. countless times he has f'd up this year on plays he needs to use his own common sense. then the draft... round 1: we need a speed rusher from the outside, guy from BC would be perfect. round 2: we need to look for a great left tackle and get him started right away. THERE WILL BE 2 TO 3 LT's THAT ARE VERY GOOD IN THE SEC0ND ROUND. round 3: we need a speedster WR and should be able to find one in the third,,, hell, coles was drafted in the third. then from round 4 on, we need to fill in holes from departed roll players and make the rooks learn from well known guys we have all over the field.

12-02-2004, 06:43 PM	#7
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 53 Posts: 960	The only thing we need is lowered expectations. I know we say we have top 10 talent, but what we have is a top ten payroll, we are currently the 3rd worst team in the league. But I understand what you're saying, because no way our roster is the third worst in the league, but like Parcells said "you are what you are. if your record says you're 3-8, you're 3-8." Re-sign Smoot, cut Samuels, keep Barrow (if he can come back otherwise cut him too), and by no means can we even contemplate trading Clinton Portis. Juggernaut, I think a fair punishment for you is to put a red bar of soap in your mouth and stand in the corner for bringing that up. But seriously, Portis is 23 and only going to get better. It's frustrating that he's not having the success he had in Denver, but no system I've ever seen made a move or broke a tackle or carried a ball so it must be Portis.

12-02-2004, 06:57 PM	#9
CROOKEDSKINS Camp Scrub Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: KEY WEST FL Age: 52 Posts: 93	i understand all the frustration i feel it too but we will get back to the top we need to get rid of gardner coles is a playmaker he needs to get the toe fixed but in all fairness the only time he gets the ball with some place to move is on the screens i too would get rid of barrow, pierce is playing reallly solid and re singing smoot is a must and tradeing portis is not an option jansen will be back next year and hopefully we can have some continuity on the o line all of the good o lines in the league have been playing together for awhile and in the same system.give it some time 1 more year wont kill weve been waiting 13 allready

12-02-2004, 07:16 PM	#10
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	If Samuels renegociates his contract to be more team friendly keep him he is still a V.Good LT. Remember this is a new blocking scheme for him too and he is starting next to the most inexperienced guy on the line. The only reason he didn't renegociate last year is because the team didn't really push it and he felt he was in a poor bargaining position having a down year and a year removed from the probowl.

12-02-2004, 08:26 PM	#11
juggernaunt Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 47	see your wrong, name me a running back that has left denver in the past 10 years that has gone to have similar #'s. there are none.... dont get me wrong portis is a good back top 5 but he's 2 damn small for our system. your gonna tell me that stephen jackson would've done less for us this year. cant say that but he would have cost 10x's less.

12-02-2004, 08:51 PM	#13
wolfeskins The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: chesapeake,va. Posts: 2,160	the skins don't need an overhaul, they just need time. take a look at the teams doing really well this year ( eagles, steelers, etc. ) they have had basically the same core group of guys ( players and coaches ) for a couple of years.

12-02-2004, 09:16 PM	#15
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Hard to say 8588. Besides Arizona you never saw him in another pro system in his prime. I'm positive if he didn't have that line, fullback, and QB/Receiver threat that he wouldn't be today's all-time leading rusher.

this team sucks

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