No Such Thing as a Quick Fix

Paintrain · 11-23-2004, 11:44 AM

From a stability standpoint, let's look at the NFL standings (http://www.nfl.com/standings) for a second. Of the teams with a winning record, only one has a 1st year coach (Mora in Atlanta). Of the teams that would be in the playoffs if the season ended today, only 3 have coaches that have been in their role for less than 3 years (Mora, DelRio & Schottenhiemer). So out of a 12 possible playoff teams, 3 have relatively new coaches, that's less than 25%. No team in the league has changed coaches as much in the past 10 years as the Redskins so we need stability more than anyone.

We need 3 things before we can even consider ourselves close to being a playoff contender.

1. Stability and above average play at the QB position. I think that is first and foremost. Hopefully Ramsey can establish that over the next 6 games, I think he is off to a decent start.

2. A defensive 'playmaker'. We need someone on the defense to step up and be our Ray Lewis, our Rodney Harrison, our Joey Porter (fighting excluded). We have a highly ranked defense, but we need that guy who will make the huge play when we need one. Hopefully Arrington and Taylor, who have not started together yet, will either share that role or one of them will step up.

3. A nasty disposition on the offensive line. Maybe it's me, but Samuels and Jansen seem like they're too much of finesse players to anchor our line and give it thier identity. As much as I hate them, Erik Williams and Larry Allen were just bad-@ss mutha-f*ckers that would take a 15 yard penalty sometimes to clock you in the grill just to let you know they were there. That's something we seem to lack on the o-line. I think that attitude sends a message of 'come at us if you have to, but I'm going to be beating that @ss all day long'. Teams have no fear of playing the Redskins, that's obvious. Someone needs to instill that fear.

I trust Gibbs will make things right and hopefully right the ship that Pettibon, Turner, Schottenheimer, Spurrier and most of all, Snyder have set off course.

That Guy · 11-23-2004, 11:52 AM

I agree. We had chances to land lewis and schotty (both solid HCs), but blew it, now we got gibbs and it looks like LDS is finely gonna let things play out (he was even willing to give SS more time, provided he got qualified help though...)

Riggo44 · 11-23-2004, 11:56 AM

I couldn't agree more Paintrain. We need to let the team jell together. Coaches and all. It just doesn't happen over night.

Krills · 11-23-2004, 12:16 PM

Good points, but I really don't think we need to see any of our offensive lineman getting stupid penalties between plays. That stuff drives me crazy. Look what penalties did on Sunday. Haven't we had enough of that?

MTK · 11-23-2004, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krills

Good points, but I really don't think we need to see any of our offensive lineman getting stupid penalties between plays. That stuff drives me crazy. Look what penalties did on Sunday. Haven't we had enough of that?

Yeah I agree.

You don't need to get stupid penalties to be aggressive and physical.

I'm quite happy with our tandem of Jansen and Samuels. I hope we can have them both 100% next year.

Redskins_P · 11-23-2004, 12:27 PM

I agree Paintrain, but I have to disagree with what you said about Jansen. I think if anything Jansen is the heart and soul of not only our o-line, but our whole offense. He's a true Redskins for life. Now Samuels on the other hand has all the physical tools. He just lacks focus and consistency. If Samuels doesn't restructure his deal, then we might be either drafting or shopping for a new LT. Dockery still has room for improvement and with time, I think he'll step up. I wouldn't mind an upgrade at center. Raymer has been inconsistent, and Friedman is definitely not considered a "starting" center.

Paintrain · 11-23-2004, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

I agree Paintrain, but I have to disagree with what you said about Jansen. I think if anything Jansen is the heart and soul of not only our o-line, but our whole offense. He's a true Redskins for life. Now Samuels on the other hand has all the physical tools. He just lacks focus and consistency. If Samuels doesn't restructure his deal, then we might be either drafting or shopping for a new LT. Dockery still has room for improvement and with time, I think he'll step up. I wouldn't mind an upgrade at center. Raymer has been inconsistent, and Friedman is definitely not considered a "starting" center.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to get rid of Jansen and Samuels, I just think they are kinda soft. They are good at what they do, but they don't intimidate anyone. I'm just tired of seeing us getting pushed around all the time. I don't advocate penalties all the time or even every game, but when you faced Williams or Allen you knew you were in for a physical fight, a battle all game long.. Our linemen seem content to just 'redirect' defensive players rather than to knock their d*cks in the dirt like the old Hogs did. Someone needs to have a nasty attitude to set the tone for the line.

jbcjr14 · 11-23-2004, 12:44 PM

Good post Pain. I agree, but tend to disagree with the Jansen comment. Jansen is a tough player and will fit well in this system. He will be "Lacheyesque" by the end of next year.

Redskins_P · 11-23-2004, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to get rid of Jansen and Samuels, I just think they are kinda soft. They are good at what they do, but they don't intimidate anyone. I'm just tired of seeing us getting pushed around all the time. I don't advocate penalties all the time or even every game, but when you faced Williams or Allen you knew you were in for a physical fight, a battle all game long.. Our linemen seem content to just 'redirect' defensive players rather than to knock their d*cks in the dirt like the old Hogs did. Someone needs to have a nasty attitude to set the tone for the line.

I hear ya...

JWsleep · 11-23-2004, 01:17 PM

Great post, Pain. I think Jansen maybe has that attitude, and that's why losing him early was such a blow. He used to get so pissed when they weren't running the ball with Spurrier. BUt overall, your post is right on.

skinsguy · 11-23-2004, 01:49 PM

PainTrain,

I think you hit the nail right on the head! The first thing we do need is stablity and I think changing coaches and QBs like we change our socks isn't displaying any sense of stablity. I think in a sense, it was good that Gibbs stuck with MB as long as he did, because at least we feel he will stick it out with PR long enough to see if he is going to be the leader of our offense. I also think you hit the nail on the head when talking about the coaches around the league who have winning records and who would be in the playoffs if the season where to end today. It is going to take longer than a year for this team to get on track and it appears to see any signs of improvement, it might also take longer than a season. Everybody and their brother that are not Redskins fans all echo what the media is saying about Joe Gibbs and needing to step down and retire. I cannot wait until we all can laugh in their face and say I told you so to all the doubters!!

memphisskin · 11-23-2004, 03:33 PM

Stability, the anti-Snyder. The sad truth that we have to face is that we just are not that good of a football team right now. That does not mean that we can't win in the future, and but we do have to look at how we've done things the past few years to see what needs to be corrected.

First and foremost we need to accept that we're not "a player away" from competing. Is it the wideouts, the quarterback, the line, the h-backs, what? We've got to stop changing the roster so dramatically year after year. Every year we go out aggressively in the offseason, we've won the past four Summer Super Bowls, and every year we find new ways to lose games. How do you lose when you have the #1 defense in the league?

Every year under Snyder we've changed our approach, and it doesn't look like this offseason will be any different as I'm sure Snyder is waiting with his checkbook in hand. I think that is a mistake, for four years running we've let Snyder's checkbook do the talking and our team just continues to decline.

I'm a little confused about Paintrain's saying we need a defensive playmaker. I thought we traded Champ Bailey because we decided that we'd build around LaVar, so he's our playmaker. He's the best player we have on defense, and I do agree that Sean Taylor will share that role with him, hopefully like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed in Baltimore. But I think once we get LaVar back we'll see a domino effect on defense, Washington, Smoot, Springs, and especially Taylor will begin to make more plays. We don't lack playmakers on defense, unless Paintrain is saying that Snyder gives out those $10 mil signing bonuses to just anybody.

Paintrain · 11-23-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memphisskin

Stability, the anti-Snyder. The sad truth that we have to face is that we just are not that good of a football team right now. That does not mean that we can't win in the future, and but we do have to look at how we've done things the past few years to see what needs to be corrected.

First and foremost we need to accept that we're not "a player away" from competing. Is it the wideouts, the quarterback, the line, the h-backs, what? We've got to stop changing the roster so dramatically year after year. Every year we go out aggressively in the offseason, we've won the past four Summer Super Bowls, and every year we find new ways to lose games. How do you lose when you have the #1 defense in the league?

Every year under Snyder we've changed our approach, and it doesn't look like this offseason will be any different as I'm sure Snyder is waiting with his checkbook in hand. I think that is a mistake, for four years running we've let Snyder's checkbook do the talking and our team just continues to decline.

I'm a little confused about Paintrain's saying we need a defensive playmaker. I thought we traded Champ Bailey because we decided that we'd build around LaVar, so he's our playmaker. He's the best player we have on defense, and I do agree that Sean Taylor will share that role with him, hopefully like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed in Baltimore. But I think once we get LaVar back we'll see a domino effect on defense, Washington, Smoot, Springs, and especially Taylor will begin to make more plays. We don't lack playmakers on defense, unless Paintrain is saying that Snyder gives out those $10 mil signing bonuses to just anybody.

I don't think we need to go out and get someone, I think someone needs to step up. Arrington has shown flashes, but he hasn't been dominant for an entire season. Same thing with Taylor, he's shown flashes, we need him to get to the point of where he's Ed Reed-like. Great analogy of Lewis and Reed, those are defensive playmakers. That's why I didn't cry when Champ left, he wasn't a playmaker. He was solid but he didn't make game changing plays.

bedlamVR · 11-24-2004, 10:05 AM

I think the defence has all it needs, it just needs to be more healthy... even D line help isn't such a high priority but could be an area adressed.

Offensivly however where DO you start. Ramsey may be the answear at QB so i would leave that thing alone this year, but OL Dockerty, Thomas, Jansen I would keep but if there is any value in trading Samuels I would seriously look at a trade. It is a killer to have to replace LT but is too inconsistant. He has all the tools but none of the focus then wonders why he is not getting to the pro bowl every year. Since Samuels has arrived it is normally been the right side of the line as the stength of the unit and that was but down to whoever was at LG but maybe Samuels isn't the guy....

memphisskin · 11-24-2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't think we need to go out and get someone, I think someone needs to step up. Arrington has shown flashes, but he hasn't been dominant for an entire season. Same thing with Taylor, he's shown flashes, we need him to get to the point of where he's Ed Reed-like. Great analogy of Lewis and Reed, those are defensive playmakers. That's why I didn't cry when Champ left, he wasn't a playmaker. He was solid but he didn't make game changing plays.

I disagree about Champ, he was a much bigger playmaker than we allowed him to be. I always thought he should be allowed to do more because he's such a playmaker, at least he was for me in Madden.

And I think it's tough for any of our guys to really be playmakers because they are constantly learning new defenses. I think that's a primary reason why our defense tends to play better later in the season, this year being the obvious exception. LaVar has been used in just about every way imaginable, and we've built our defense to be solid without him and spectacular with him. He's made some pretty big plays in his career, remember he saved the 2001 season with the pick against Carolina. I think Lavar Arrington is a playmaker, he just hasn't had the luxury to get comfortable in one system. Our Arrington-Taylor combo is going to be pretty good for a while.

11-23-2004, 11:56 AM	#3
Riggo44 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Clemente CA Age: 51 Posts: 2,390	I couldn't agree more Paintrain. We need to let the team jell together. Coaches and all. It just doesn't happen over night. __________________ Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Benjamin Franklin

11-23-2004, 12:16 PM	#4
Krills Special Teams Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chesapeake, VA Age: 44 Posts: 123	Good Post Good points, but I really don't think we need to see any of our offensive lineman getting stupid penalties between plays. That stuff drives me crazy. Look what penalties did on Sunday. Haven't we had enough of that?

11-23-2004, 12:44 PM	#8
jbcjr14 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Age: 55 Posts: 2,015	Good post Pain. I agree, but tend to disagree with the Jansen comment. Jansen is a tough player and will fit well in this system. He will be "Lacheyesque" by the end of next year. __________________ "Work Harder: millions on welfare are counting on you" - Obama 2009 address to Congress.

11-23-2004, 01:17 PM	#10
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,719	Great post, Pain. I think Jansen maybe has that attitude, and that's why losing him early was such a blow. He used to get so pissed when they weren't running the ball with Spurrier. BUt overall, your post is right on. __________________ Hail from Houston!

11-23-2004, 11:44 AM	#1
Paintrain Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Age: 54 Posts: 5,006	No Such Thing as a Quick Fix From a stability standpoint, let's look at the NFL standings (http://www.nfl.com/standings) for a second. Of the teams with a winning record, only one has a 1st year coach (Mora in Atlanta). Of the teams that would be in the playoffs if the season ended today, only 3 have coaches that have been in their role for less than 3 years (Mora, DelRio & Schottenhiemer). So out of a 12 possible playoff teams, 3 have relatively new coaches, that's less than 25%. No team in the league has changed coaches as much in the past 10 years as the Redskins so we need stability more than anyone. We need 3 things before we can even consider ourselves close to being a playoff contender. 1. Stability and above average play at the QB position. I think that is first and foremost. Hopefully Ramsey can establish that over the next 6 games, I think he is off to a decent start. 2. A defensive 'playmaker'. We need someone on the defense to step up and be our Ray Lewis, our Rodney Harrison, our Joey Porter (fighting excluded). We have a highly ranked defense, but we need that guy who will make the huge play when we need one. Hopefully Arrington and Taylor, who have not started together yet, will either share that role or one of them will step up. 3. A nasty disposition on the offensive line. Maybe it's me, but Samuels and Jansen seem like they're too much of finesse players to anchor our line and give it thier identity. As much as I hate them, Erik Williams and Larry Allen were just bad-@ss mutha-f*ckers that would take a 15 yard penalty sometimes to clock you in the grill just to let you know they were there. That's something we seem to lack on the o-line. I think that attitude sends a message of 'come at us if you have to, but I'm going to be beating that @ss all day long'. Teams have no fear of playing the Redskins, that's obvious. Someone needs to instill that fear. I trust Gibbs will make things right and hopefully right the ship that Pettibon, Turner, Schottenheimer, Spurrier and most of all, Snyder have set off course.

11-23-2004, 11:52 AM	#2
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,561	I agree. We had chances to land lewis and schotty (both solid HCs), but blew it, now we got gibbs and it looks like LDS is finely gonna let things play out (he was even willing to give SS more time, provided he got qualified help though...)

11-23-2004, 12:27 PM	#6
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 46 Posts: 4,101	I agree Paintrain, but I have to disagree with what you said about Jansen. I think if anything Jansen is the heart and soul of not only our o-line, but our whole offense. He's a true Redskins for life. Now Samuels on the other hand has all the physical tools. He just lacks focus and consistency. If Samuels doesn't restructure his deal, then we might be either drafting or shopping for a new LT. Dockery still has room for improvement and with time, I think he'll step up. I wouldn't mind an upgrade at center. Raymer has been inconsistent, and Friedman is definitely not considered a "starting" center.

11-23-2004, 01:49 PM	#11
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	PainTrain, I think you hit the nail right on the head! The first thing we do need is stablity and I think changing coaches and QBs like we change our socks isn't displaying any sense of stablity. I think in a sense, it was good that Gibbs stuck with MB as long as he did, because at least we feel he will stick it out with PR long enough to see if he is going to be the leader of our offense. I also think you hit the nail on the head when talking about the coaches around the league who have winning records and who would be in the playoffs if the season where to end today. It is going to take longer than a year for this team to get on track and it appears to see any signs of improvement, it might also take longer than a season. Everybody and their brother that are not Redskins fans all echo what the media is saying about Joe Gibbs and needing to step down and retire. I cannot wait until we all can laugh in their face and say I told you so to all the doubters!!

11-23-2004, 03:33 PM	#12
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 53 Posts: 960	Stability, the anti-Snyder. The sad truth that we have to face is that we just are not that good of a football team right now. That does not mean that we can't win in the future, and but we do have to look at how we've done things the past few years to see what needs to be corrected. First and foremost we need to accept that we're not "a player away" from competing. Is it the wideouts, the quarterback, the line, the h-backs, what? We've got to stop changing the roster so dramatically year after year. Every year we go out aggressively in the offseason, we've won the past four Summer Super Bowls, and every year we find new ways to lose games. How do you lose when you have the #1 defense in the league? Every year under Snyder we've changed our approach, and it doesn't look like this offseason will be any different as I'm sure Snyder is waiting with his checkbook in hand. I think that is a mistake, for four years running we've let Snyder's checkbook do the talking and our team just continues to decline. I'm a little confused about Paintrain's saying we need a defensive playmaker. I thought we traded Champ Bailey because we decided that we'd build around LaVar, so he's our playmaker. He's the best player we have on defense, and I do agree that Sean Taylor will share that role with him, hopefully like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed in Baltimore. But I think once we get LaVar back we'll see a domino effect on defense, Washington, Smoot, Springs, and especially Taylor will begin to make more plays. We don't lack playmakers on defense, unless Paintrain is saying that Snyder gives out those $10 mil signing bonuses to just anybody.

11-24-2004, 10:05 AM	#14
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	I think the defence has all it needs, it just needs to be more healthy... even D line help isn't such a high priority but could be an area adressed. Offensivly however where DO you start. Ramsey may be the answear at QB so i would leave that thing alone this year, but OL Dockerty, Thomas, Jansen I would keep but if there is any value in trading Samuels I would seriously look at a trade. It is a killer to have to replace LT but is too inconsistant. He has all the tools but none of the focus then wonders why he is not getting to the pro bowl every year. Since Samuels has arrived it is normally been the right side of the line as the stength of the unit and that was but down to whoever was at LG but maybe Samuels isn't the guy....

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