Mark Brunell: 'The Real Take'

ChounsMan · 11-15-2004, 04:42 PM

This is just an observation of how I think Mark Brunell has looked & what he's lacked.

First off, Brunell is not too old to play the QB position. However, he obviously is not 100% healthy. There's no other excuse I can come up with. I don't think it's a talent issue. Guys that have played with him in the past have agreed that this is not the Brunell they remembered in Jacksonville.

With that, lets take a look at Brunell's stats...

STATS

If you really take a look at the stats year by year you will see that Mark is close to his mid season stats as he's been in previous seasons. The only difference I can see is his completions are lower & he's not creating more opportunities with his feet.

I also noticed that Brunell is significantly down on his deeper passes of 20+ & 40+, which would lead me to believe that he's either not healthy or he's not comfortable on his deeper reads. He might also not be strong enough anymore, but I remember Brunell 2 years ago & he showed a pretty good gun then still.

Gibbs was right to stay with Brunell for this long, but Gibbs was also wrong not to have had Brunell tested better in preseason. The stats do not lie. Mark is flat this season & it's showing up every week on the field. Maybe he just lacks passion? I don't know... Some players play with alot of passion (Farve, Mcnair, & Elway) which allows them to play longer into their careers with a high level of success. Then there are those players that play flat & much lower than they are capabale (Brunell, Marino, & George) of.

I think we all believe in Gibbs & his success of winning games, but this time I think we underestimated his ability to regain an old boys form. Brunell probably should not return this season as the starter, only to backup Ramsey if he's injuried, which is likely. jk

Not sure we should just eat his contract next season just yet..? He might be a good teacher for the younger guys.

In closing, Mark has not lived up to his promise to the Redskins. As the starting QB your responsibilities are the offense. Mark is the guy that has to pump his players up & get them charged to play at a high level. I did notice when Ramsey came in that the offensive players stepped it up a notch to help reinforce the switch at QB. While Ramsey did little to really impress me, the rest of the offense responded to him positively :thumb:

skin4Life28 · 11-15-2004, 04:55 PM

Its really hard to figure out what is wrong. That shoulder may have never healed back right or it has just thrown his mechanics off. Whatever it is I hope he gets it fixed I just cnnot say that he is teerrible because he has had a great career. We will see down the road.

Teemotay · 11-15-2004, 05:20 PM

Not sure if you've seen this or not (or if it's been posted elsewhere on the site), but this was kinda funny. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Skins fan, and a believer in Gibbs....but it's still kinda funny... http://www.extremeskins.com/modules....aha&file=index

gortiz · 11-15-2004, 05:22 PM

I just read a quote by Wilbon where he said he spoke to Ron Jaworski about breaking down film of the Skin's WR's getting open or lack of on passing plays. By all accounts Jaws said that they were getting open on a regular basis....I've been wanting to hear a "pro's" take on this issue for awhile....we can only see so much on T.V. Jaws said Game film is showing that the WR's are getting open....so they are not the problem....I think Mark, for one reason or another just flat out....LOST IT. It happens.
Gibbs is freaking not blind, he saw something in Mark, Cerrato is not blind....he must have seen something....this Mark Brunell thing is flat out unexplainable right now

FRPLG · 11-15-2004, 05:22 PM

His arm is not there. For whatever reason he just doesn't have the ability to zip a ball right now. That's what is causing the issues down field...his balls float out of bounds half the time. On intermediate routes he seems to gear up and try adn wing it as hard as he can to compensate which has of course killed his accuracy. He has even been astonishingly bad at short routes too. My guess is this is psychosymatic as he is trying so hard. Also his precipitous drop in mobility ash changed the way mechanics and timing of his throws on the run...I think this is another issue. Refering to my diatribe in a another thread about the WRs: this is where we have a fundamental problem. They get ZERO seperation. Outside of a guy like Vick creating on the run and MAKING seperation for his WRs there is no QB in the league who does well with the performance of our WRs. They have been the least talked about problem but I am betting everyone is going to catch on to their suckiness pretty soon. Important note: I don't think we lack talent at WR...I think we lack health. Coles has been a disaster this year...dropping balls and clearly being one or two steps slower on top of a significant drop in plain ole quickness. His hands are broken so he can't even hang on to 1/4 of the balls that hit him perfectly. Gardner is a possession guy who thrives on having a play-maker like Coles on the other side of the field. He can get body seperation in a one on one situation by using body positioning and size. This tougher to in the middle of the field when the safeties aren't respecting Coles like last year. Jacobs has been a pleasant surprise but he is the third read and rarely has gotten a ton of balls. I'd move Jacobs to Coles spot where maybe he can be a better factor for us and sit Coles a little get his hands fixed.

FRPLG · 11-15-2004, 05:25 PM

Man I ahve watched games and it seems we don't get any seperation at all. I guess I would defer to Jaws on this but it seems to mee that where ever the ball was going yesterday and in the weeks before it always seemed to get tipped or thrown as to avoid the guy drapped on the WR. There have been of the course the missed throws but on a regular basis I am not conivnced our WRs have gotten open.

MTK · 11-15-2004, 05:28 PM

I really find it hard to believe he's simply lost it.

He's not a spring chicken but plenty of guys his age have played QB at a very high level in this league.

I too think that something must be wrong with him physically.

FRPLG · 11-15-2004, 05:29 PM

Another theory I will throw out...this one is less thought out than others. It is sorta bouncing around my noggin' for a while.

Is it possible that Brunell just is not grasping the offense? I mean if we stipulate that he has been slow to pick it up then we can explain just about every type of issue we've had on offense. I guess Brunell is respected as a rather intelligent guy but remember he was a run and gunner type at his prime. He amde plays with his legs and wasn't thought of a pure pocket passer. Maybe now that they are asking him to stnad in there a little more he is just slow on pocket decision making and with his lack of mobility just can't make the break away plays like in the past. Seems we all have just taken for granted that Brunell is not just a total retard. What say you all?

BossHog · 11-15-2004, 05:38 PM

Nice observation Chonus. Gibbs dropped the ball on bringing in Brunell. No. The front office dropped the ball bringing in a guy for top dollar in who started in a system for years and was about to be released for "salary cap" reasons. Hmmmm. Sometimes you have to say, 'Thanks but, no thanks'. Who was the QB Gibbs had in mind if JAX would'nt agree to terms? Synder must have a candy jar sitting on his office desk filled with Tootsie Roll pops. The world will never know. Just like we bum rushed NYJ for Morton (to be released after this season), just like we tried to aquire Butler from STL. I thought we weren't going to change the name of the team to the Washington CashCows. And don't get me wrong. I like being the agressor. Just be sure of the prey. And too many times since Snyder's takeover we, the fans have tasted skunk.

FRPLG · 11-15-2004, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossHog

And too many times since Snyder's takeover we, the fans have tasted skunk.

Cerrato is a joke when it comes to personnel evaluation. I am amazed that Synder has stuck by him so long. In fact he even brought him back after he was pushed out by Marty. Weird devotion to a guy who hasn't done squat for you.

Duffman003 · 11-15-2004, 05:46 PM

I think it was the fear of getting hit. Whenever he was on a rollout he was fine because he was so far away from the 300 pound defensive linemen, but that could have been because the recievers had so much time to get open.

Winskins · 11-15-2004, 06:14 PM

I read something in a article and I'm going to try to find (it's from a couple of years ago) and it had a player or coach talking about Mark Brunnel's talents. They said that Mark was the most dangerous when he was running around and making throws on the run, they even said that Mark made throws on the run as well as most people did with their feet set.

I don't think Brunnel has really been running around in there as much as he has (or maybe even should be). I read an article in the Washington Post a while ago where Gibbs was kind of saying that he didn't want Brunnel running to much (to avoid mistakes), but he just wanted Brunnel to throw the ball away at the first signs of trouble. That is not Mark Brunnel! I don't know how fast Brunnel is (I would like to know his current 40 time), but I wonder if Brunnel still has the speed.

I saw Brunnel make some good throws this year, but his accuracy seems to be terrible, not being able to hit guys in the open field, and when he does hit them the WRs seem to drop them. My last note is passion, and I think that Chounsman hit this right on the dot. I don't see the passion in Brunnel when he steps onto the field and I think that'll kill even the best QB.

HTTR

MTK · 11-15-2004, 06:18 PM

I don't think it has a lot to do with him not picking up the system, he's just not accurate at all anymore.

He's been overthrowing guys and hitting them in the knees all season.

skinsguy · 11-15-2004, 07:16 PM

What it comes down to is that Mark wasn't completing enough passes in combination of receivers dropping the few passes that Mark actually was on target with. In the NFL, you cannot be one deminisional.

wolfeskins · 11-15-2004, 08:26 PM

let's not make this complicated , mark brunell has never been a great qb , he's only been somewhat obove average to good, thats it. his skills have been deminishing for the last couple of years. last year he was beat out by a ROOKIE and not a very good rookie i might add. he was injured and he is old, old people don't quite heal as good as young ones. add his age and his injury to his deminished skills and that equalls what we all saw this season.

11-15-2004, 04:42 PM	#1
ChounsMan Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Connecticut Age: 53 Posts: 312	Mark Brunell: 'The Real Take' This is just an observation of how I think Mark Brunell has looked & what he's lacked. First off, Brunell is not too old to play the QB position. However, he obviously is not 100% healthy. There's no other excuse I can come up with. I don't think it's a talent issue. Guys that have played with him in the past have agreed that this is not the Brunell they remembered in Jacksonville. With that, lets take a look at Brunell's stats... STATS If you really take a look at the stats year by year you will see that Mark is close to his mid season stats as he's been in previous seasons. The only difference I can see is his completions are lower & he's not creating more opportunities with his feet. I also noticed that Brunell is significantly down on his deeper passes of 20+ & 40+, which would lead me to believe that he's either not healthy or he's not comfortable on his deeper reads. He might also not be strong enough anymore, but I remember Brunell 2 years ago & he showed a pretty good gun then still. Gibbs was right to stay with Brunell for this long, but Gibbs was also wrong not to have had Brunell tested better in preseason. The stats do not lie. Mark is flat this season & it's showing up every week on the field. Maybe he just lacks passion? I don't know... Some players play with alot of passion (Farve, Mcnair, & Elway) which allows them to play longer into their careers with a high level of success. Then there are those players that play flat & much lower than they are capabale (Brunell, Marino, & George) of. I think we all believe in Gibbs & his success of winning games, but this time I think we underestimated his ability to regain an old boys form. Brunell probably should not return this season as the starter, only to backup Ramsey if he's injuried, which is likely. jk Not sure we should just eat his contract next season just yet..? He might be a good teacher for the younger guys. In closing, Mark has not lived up to his promise to the Redskins. As the starting QB your responsibilities are the offense. Mark is the guy that has to pump his players up & get them charged to play at a high level. I did notice when Ramsey came in that the offensive players stepped it up a notch to help reinforce the switch at QB. While Ramsey did little to really impress me, the rest of the offense responded to him positively :thumb: __________________ Throwing on 4th and inches..!

11-15-2004, 06:14 PM	#12
Winskins Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wheaton, MD Age: 40 Posts: 282	I read something in a article and I'm going to try to find (it's from a couple of years ago) and it had a player or coach talking about Mark Brunnel's talents. They said that Mark was the most dangerous when he was running around and making throws on the run, they even said that Mark made throws on the run as well as most people did with their feet set. I don't think Brunnel has really been running around in there as much as he has (or maybe even should be). I read an article in the Washington Post a while ago where Gibbs was kind of saying that he didn't want Brunnel running to much (to avoid mistakes), but he just wanted Brunnel to throw the ball away at the first signs of trouble. That is not Mark Brunnel! I don't know how fast Brunnel is (I would like to know his current 40 time), but I wonder if Brunnel still has the speed. I saw Brunnel make some good throws this year, but his accuracy seems to be terrible, not being able to hit guys in the open field, and when he does hit them the WRs seem to drop them. My last note is passion, and I think that Chounsman hit this right on the dot. I don't see the passion in Brunnel when he steps onto the field and I think that'll kill even the best QB. HTTR __________________ The Skins will make the Cowboys their woman...and they're gonna enjoy it!

11-15-2004, 04:55 PM	#2
skin4Life28 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 38 Posts: 447	Its really hard to figure out what is wrong. That shoulder may have never healed back right or it has just thrown his mechanics off. Whatever it is I hope he gets it fixed I just cnnot say that he is teerrible because he has had a great career. We will see down the road.

11-15-2004, 05:20 PM	#3
Teemotay Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 30	Not sure if you've seen this or not (or if it's been posted elsewhere on the site), but this was kinda funny. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Skins fan, and a believer in Gibbs....but it's still kinda funny... http://www.extremeskins.com/modules....aha&file=index

11-15-2004, 05:22 PM	#4
gortiz Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 498	I just read a quote by Wilbon where he said he spoke to Ron Jaworski about breaking down film of the Skin's WR's getting open or lack of on passing plays. By all accounts Jaws said that they were getting open on a regular basis....I've been wanting to hear a "pro's" take on this issue for awhile....we can only see so much on T.V. Jaws said Game film is showing that the WR's are getting open....so they are not the problem....I think Mark, for one reason or another just flat out....LOST IT. It happens. Gibbs is freaking not blind, he saw something in Mark, Cerrato is not blind....he must have seen something....this Mark Brunell thing is flat out unexplainable right now

11-15-2004, 05:22 PM	#5
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	His arm is not there. For whatever reason he just doesn't have the ability to zip a ball right now. That's what is causing the issues down field...his balls float out of bounds half the time. On intermediate routes he seems to gear up and try adn wing it as hard as he can to compensate which has of course killed his accuracy. He has even been astonishingly bad at short routes too. My guess is this is psychosymatic as he is trying so hard. Also his precipitous drop in mobility ash changed the way mechanics and timing of his throws on the run...I think this is another issue. Refering to my diatribe in a another thread about the WRs: this is where we have a fundamental problem. They get ZERO seperation. Outside of a guy like Vick creating on the run and MAKING seperation for his WRs there is no QB in the league who does well with the performance of our WRs. They have been the least talked about problem but I am betting everyone is going to catch on to their suckiness pretty soon. Important note: I don't think we lack talent at WR...I think we lack health. Coles has been a disaster this year...dropping balls and clearly being one or two steps slower on top of a significant drop in plain ole quickness. His hands are broken so he can't even hang on to 1/4 of the balls that hit him perfectly. Gardner is a possession guy who thrives on having a play-maker like Coles on the other side of the field. He can get body seperation in a one on one situation by using body positioning and size. This tougher to in the middle of the field when the safeties aren't respecting Coles like last year. Jacobs has been a pleasant surprise but he is the third read and rarely has gotten a ton of balls. I'd move Jacobs to Coles spot where maybe he can be a better factor for us and sit Coles a little get his hands fixed.

11-15-2004, 05:25 PM	#6
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	Man I ahve watched games and it seems we don't get any seperation at all. I guess I would defer to Jaws on this but it seems to mee that where ever the ball was going yesterday and in the weeks before it always seemed to get tipped or thrown as to avoid the guy drapped on the WR. There have been of the course the missed throws but on a regular basis I am not conivnced our WRs have gotten open.

11-15-2004, 05:28 PM	#7
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,686	I really find it hard to believe he's simply lost it. He's not a spring chicken but plenty of guys his age have played QB at a very high level in this league. I too think that something must be wrong with him physically.

11-15-2004, 05:29 PM	#8
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	Another theory I will throw out...this one is less thought out than others. It is sorta bouncing around my noggin' for a while. Is it possible that Brunell just is not grasping the offense? I mean if we stipulate that he has been slow to pick it up then we can explain just about every type of issue we've had on offense. I guess Brunell is respected as a rather intelligent guy but remember he was a run and gunner type at his prime. He amde plays with his legs and wasn't thought of a pure pocket passer. Maybe now that they are asking him to stnad in there a little more he is just slow on pocket decision making and with his lack of mobility just can't make the break away plays like in the past. Seems we all have just taken for granted that Brunell is not just a total retard. What say you all?

11-15-2004, 05:38 PM	#9
BossHog Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Norfolk, Va Posts: 665	Nice observation Chonus. Gibbs dropped the ball on bringing in Brunell. No. The front office dropped the ball bringing in a guy for top dollar in who started in a system for years and was about to be released for "salary cap" reasons. Hmmmm. Sometimes you have to say, 'Thanks but, no thanks'. Who was the QB Gibbs had in mind if JAX would'nt agree to terms? Synder must have a candy jar sitting on his office desk filled with Tootsie Roll pops. The world will never know. Just like we bum rushed NYJ for Morton (to be released after this season), just like we tried to aquire Butler from STL. I thought we weren't going to change the name of the team to the Washington CashCows. And don't get me wrong. I like being the agressor. Just be sure of the prey. And too many times since Snyder's takeover we, the fans have tasted skunk.

11-15-2004, 05:46 PM	#11
Duffman003 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 602	I think it was the fear of getting hit. Whenever he was on a rollout he was fine because he was so far away from the 300 pound defensive linemen, but that could have been because the recievers had so much time to get open.

11-15-2004, 06:18 PM	#13
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,686	I don't think it has a lot to do with him not picking up the system, he's just not accurate at all anymore. He's been overthrowing guys and hitting them in the knees all season.

11-15-2004, 07:16 PM	#14
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	What it comes down to is that Mark wasn't completing enough passes in combination of receivers dropping the few passes that Mark actually was on target with. In the NFL, you cannot be one deminisional.

11-15-2004, 08:26 PM	#15
wolfeskins The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: chesapeake,va. Posts: 2,160	let's not make this complicated , mark brunell has never been a great qb , he's only been somewhat obove average to good, thats it. his skills have been deminishing for the last couple of years. last year he was beat out by a ROOKIE and not a very good rookie i might add. he was injured and he is old, old people don't quite heal as good as young ones. add his age and his injury to his deminished skills and that equalls what we all saw this season.

Mark Brunell: 'The Real Take'

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