Arizona's New Immigration Law

[saden1]

I would have thought someone would have started a thread about this but I guess I will. What's the point of this law? I don't get it.

[MTK]

What's wrong with some blatant racial profiling?

[Trample the Elderly]

I don't understand why the illegal aleins are upset over this law? It's not like they paid any attention to the law to begin with, hence the term "illegal".

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

What's wrong with some blatant racial profiling?

The law "prevents" you from doing that though...the question I have is if nearly 30 percent of Arizonians are Hispanic how will they tell legals from illegals without profiling? What does profiling mean really? And how does it help?

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by saden1

The law "prevents" you from doing that though...the question I have is if nearly 30 percent of Arizonians are Hispanic how will they tell legals from illegals without profiling? What does profiling mean really? And how does it help?

It means Saudi Arabian men are more likely to fly a plane into a building than Roman Catholic Nuns.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by saden1

The law "prevents" you from doing that though...the question I have is if nearly 30 percent of Arizonians are Hispanic how will they tell legals from illegals without profiling? What does profiling mean really? And how does it help?

actually, the law allows "hispanic profiling" along US territories along the border. im not sure how far this area extends into the US but i know ive been stopped a few times near the border for nothing other than driving thru the desert near the border. one time we got lost, ended up at a checkpoint and border patrol told us we had crossed into mexico then back again. they locked us up, i was in a small cell with a bucket to piss and shit in. the border patrol, how do we say, found some things. after an hour they decided to let us go, went back out to my car and everything in it was tossed all around my car.

[Monkeydad]

Basis for it:
Arizona has a MASSIVE problem with illegal aliens crossing the border. They bring drugs, commit rapes and murders, have even invaded peoples' homes and properties. The state has asked the Feds for help and have been denied. They need to get this under control and are doing ot for themselves out of necessity because they're being ignored in their requests for assistance.


What it does:
It allows local law enforcement to ask for proof of citizenship AFTER detaining someone for another crime. When someone is pulled over for speeding, arrested on drug offenses or any other legitimate reason, it adds an ability to request their legal status and hold them while they're looking it up and checking with proper immigration authorities. Keep in mind, this step is AFTER they're already arrested or stopped for other reasons. The law does not allow profiling or requesting legal status without reasonable suspicion or another crime already having taken place. It basically enforces immigration laws that have ALREADY been signed by the past few Presidents but aren't being allowed to be enforced because of the lack of cooperation or action by Federal Immigration authorities. This law allows State and Local law enforcement to do the job that the Feds refuse to do.

The spin from opposition:
Of course, the first argument is crying "racism" because they want to enforce existing immigration laws against a voting block for the Democrat Party. The President has blatantly lied about it, claiming that "people trying to take their daughter out for ice cream will be asked to show papers for no reason but how they look". That's 100% B.S.

"Now suddenly if you don't have your papers, and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you're going to get harassed — that's something that could potentially happen," Obama said of the Arizona measure. "That's not the right way to go."
In Iowa, Obama pleads for immigration reform - White House- msnbc.com

Also, this week, the President gave a speech asking for the Hispanic vote and other minority votes. It has some serious racial divisions in his speech. Imagine the reaction is a white President gave a speech asking for the white vote as the key to his victory, excluding other racial groups.






Texas wants the law now too. States have a right to protect themselves, especially when the Federal Government is ENABLING the law breakers.

Texas Rep Wants to Import AZ Immigration Law | NBC Dallas-Fort Worth

[12thMan]

Two things, well probably more than that, are wrong with this law.

1) You can get pulled over or questioned by a police officer if they "reasonably suspect" you are an illegal immigrant. This law is blatantly oriented towards Hispanics. No other way around it.

2) It does absolutely nothing to address securing the borders. Nothing.

[Monkeydad]

April 28, 2010 12:00 A.M.
How Mexico Treats Illegal Aliens
Their practices are discriminatory, corrupt, and abusive.


Mexican president Felipe Calderón has accused Arizona of opening the door “to intolerance, hate, discrimination, and abuse in law enforcement.” But Arizona has nothing on Mexico when it comes to cracking down on illegal aliens. While open-borders activists decry the new enforcement measures signed into law in “Nazi-zona” last week, they remain deaf, dumb, or willfully blind to the unapologetically restrictionist policies of our neighbors to the south.

The Arizona law bans sanctuary cities that refuse to enforce immigration laws, stiffens penalties against illegal-alien day laborers and their employers, makes it a misdemeanor for immigrants to fail to complete and carry an alien-registration document, and allows the police to arrest immigrants unable to show documents proving they are in the U.S. legally. If those rules constitute the racist, fascist, xenophobic, inhumane regime that the National Council of La Raza, Al Sharpton, Catholic bishops, and their grievance-mongering followers claim, then what about these regulations and restrictions imposed on foreigners?

The Mexican government will bar foreigners if they upset “the equilibrium of the national demographics.” How’s that for racial and ethnic profiling?

If outsiders do not enhance the country’s “economic or national interests” or are “not found to be physically or mentally healthy,” they are not welcome. Neither are those who show “contempt against national sovereignty or security.” They must not be economic burdens on society and must have clean criminal histories. Those seeking to obtain Mexican citizenship must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic independence, pass an exam, and prove they can provide their own health care.

Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country (see, for example, President Obama’s illegal-alien aunt — a fugitive from deportation for eight years who is awaiting a second decision on her previously rejected asylum claim).

Law-enforcement officials at all levels — by national mandate — must cooperate to enforce immigration laws, including illegal-alien arrests and deportations. The Mexican military is also required to assist in immigration-enforcement operations. Native-born Mexicans are empowered to make citizens’ arrests of illegal aliens and turn them in to authorities.

Ready to show your papers? Mexico’s National Catalog of Foreigners tracks all outside tourists and foreign nationals. A National Population Registry tracks and verifies the identity of every member of the population, who must carry a citizens’ identity card. Visitors who do not possess proper documents and identification are subject to arrest as illegal aliens.

All of these provisions are enshrined in Mexico’s Ley General de Población (General Law of the Population) and were spotlighted in a 2006 research paper published by the Washington, D.C.–based Center for Security Policy. There’s been no public clamor for “comprehensive immigration reform” in Mexico, however, because pro-illegal-alien speech by outsiders is prohibited.

Consider: Open-borders protesters marched freely at the Capitol building in Arizona, comparing Republican governor Jan Brewer to Hitler, waving Mexican flags, advocating that demonstrators “smash the state,” and holding signs that proclaimed “No human is illegal” and “We have rights.”

But under the Mexican constitution, such political speech by foreigners is banned. Noncitizens cannot “in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.” In fact, a plethora of Mexican statutes enacted by its congress limit the participation of foreign nationals and companies in everything from investment, education, mining, and civil aviation to electric energy and firearms. Foreigners have severely limited (if any) private-property and employment rights.

As for abuse, the Mexican government is notorious for its abuse of Central American illegal aliens who attempt to violate Mexico’s southern border. The Red Cross has protested rampant Mexican police corruption, intimidation, and bribery schemes targeting illegal aliens there for years. Mexico didn’t respond by granting mass amnesty to illegal aliens, as it is demanding that we do. It clamped down on its borders even further. In late 2008, the Mexican government launched an aggressive deportation plan to curtain illegal Cuban immigration and human trafficking through Cancun.

Meanwhile, Mexican consular offices in the United States have coordinated with left-wing social-justice groups and the Catholic Church’s leadership to demand a moratorium on all deportations and a freeze on all employment raids across America.

Mexico is doing the job Arizona is now doing — a job the U.S. government has failed miserably to do: putting its people first. Here’s the proper rejoinder to all the hysterical demagogues in Mexico (and their sympathizers here on American soil) now calling for boycotts and invoking Jim Crow laws, apartheid, and the Holocaust because Arizona has taken its sovereignty into its own hands:

Hipócritas.

How Mexico Treats Illegal Aliens - Michelle Malkin - National Review Online

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

The law "prevents" you from doing that though...the question I have is if nearly 30 percent of Arizonians are Hispanic how will they tell legals from illegals without profiling? What does profiling mean really? And how does it help?

Well people seem to leave off the point that the officer must first have a reason for pulling the person over or approaching them. When they ask for a form of ID if the person does not have one then the officer is now required to follow up and either see documintation or take the person in. I don't see what the big deal is. I have been pulled without an driver lic. and in a matter of a minute or two a cop can verify who I am. Now if I'm an illegal I guess the cop will not be able to do this and thus your sent packing.

[joethiesmanfan]

It means they are exactling revenge fot the killing of tehe big time good ole boy rancher. My question is was the murder drug related? Seems like if you have a ranch on the Mexico-U.S. border you could easily make a few million a week as a drug pass through. Money talks. It attacks constitional rights of everyone. It says you can be pulled for no reason at all, "if your suspected of being illegal". What if I'm coming home at night from having a couple beers and get pulled for this garbage. You can't tell if someone is hispanic if it's night, and you are a cop pulling over cars. Same for roadblocks. They could set up road blocks that wouldn't be profiling, but who needs to give the police more powers to set up roadblocks.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well people seem to leave off the point that the officer must first have a reason for pulling the person over or approaching them. When they ask for a form of ID if the person does not have one then the officer is now required to follow up and either see documintation or take the person in. I don't see what the big deal is. I have been pulled without an driver lic. and in a matter of a minute or two a cop can verify who I am. Now if I'm an illegal I guess the cop will not be able to do this and thus your sent packing.

How do you define "reasonably suspect"? And exactly what does an illegal immigrant look like anyways?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Two things, well probably more than that, are wrong with this law.

1) You can get pulled over or questioned by a police officer if they "reasonably suspect" you are an illegal immigrant. This law is blatantly oriented towards Hispanics. No other way around it.

2) It does absolutely nothing to address securing the borders. Nothing.

Read the law before your speak about what it does and does not do because this statement is false.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

How do you define "reasonably suspect"? And exactly what does an illegal immigrant look like anyways?

i did not use the term "reasonaby suspect" in my response. Whe are you getting that from the liberal media.

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

It attacks constitional rights of everyone. It says you can be pulled for no reason at all, "if your suspected of being illegal". What if I'm coming home at night from having a couple beers and get pulled for this garbage. You can't tell if someone is hispanic if it's night, and you are a cop pulling over cars. Same for roadblocks. They could set up road blocks that wouldn't be profiling, but who needs to give the police more powers to set up roadblocks.

while i generally agree and i dont like this law or any that unnecessarily expands police powers, i'm not sure that the "hey this infringes on my right to drive drunk" defense is the best argument to make.