Spurrier Absolved?

[NY_Skinsfan]

I was reading an article on MSNBC.com and came across a quote I thought was interesting. It said this about Spurrier.

"He still is in his prime, and the more Joe Gibbs struggles with the Redskins, the more Spurrier gets absolved of wrong-doing in Washington."

If you ask me, the more Gibbs struggles, it just proves that Spurrier left a bigger hole for the Redskins to climb out of than people thought he did.

[LRT]

I agree with that. I know I underestimated just how far this team needed to come. Certainly Spurrier had some talented players and we acquired more in the off-season, but I've come to believe that Spurrier's style was actually determintal to team cohesion, dedication and confidence. He left a really big hole and Gibbs is still trying to dig out of it.

[MTK]

Spurrier won't be absolved unless he comes back to the NFL and wins.

[4TH RING]

"Absolved"? I'll take Gibbs over Spurrier anyday.

"He's still in his prime". Maybe as a college coach. His fun n gun needs some modification to have a chance in the NFL.

[MTK]

On one hand I hope he sticks with college, it's what he does best and he's great for the college game.

On the other hand I'd like to see him come back to the NFL and take some more beatings so people can finally see it's him, and not the Skins, that is the problem.

There's no way he can win in the NFL with the system and work ethic he had here. If he comes back to the NFL and is successful, it will be because he makes wholesale changes to his system and actually puts in the same blood, sweat and tears that the other 31 NFL head coaches do.

Either that or surround him with a stellar coaching staff that will hide his deficiencies and basically do alot of his work for him. But if you need to do that what's the point?

[ChounsMan]

The only thing he did with the Redskins was an implementation of a flawed system that divided players from coaches & destroyed team unity. He never had this team running as a solid core. It's still an issue today. Gibbs will need another 2 seasons just to get this team running as one unit.

Gibbs will take this team to the playoffs in 2006. Mark my words....

[djnemo65]

You guys are quick to criticize spurrier, and he does deserve it of course, but the bigger problem was his supporting coaching staff. The change from george edwards to greg williams demonstrates that. If we had had this defense last year, we would have had a shot to make the playoffs. I think that Chris Mortenson's article last week did a pretty good job demonstrating that this is the consensus among many GM's.

As for Spurrier leaving lasting divisions in team unity, I think that's absurd. The problem with this team is not togetherness. In fact its not that mysterious what's wrong - its poor qb play, a spotty o line, and inexplicable offensive gameplanning.

Finally, to argue that this once again vaunted team once again sucking doesn't take heat off of spurier doesn't make much sense to me. Clearly, they have issues that transcend the limitations of the fun n' gun.

[Daseal]

Let me ask you all something. Assume for a moment (I know you all have problems when I ask you to do this) that we had the defense last year we have this year. Coordinators et al. You think we would have been shy of the playoffs? I certainly don't.

I know Spurriers biggest problem was he didn't surroung himself with NFL guys. That's all about to change!

[redskinsskickazz]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

On one hand I hope he sticks with college, it's what he does best and he's great for the college game.

On the other hand I'd like to see him come back to the NFL and take some more beatings so people can finally see it's him, and not the Skins, that is the problem.

There's no way he can win in the NFL with the system and work ethic he had here. If he comes back to the NFL and is successful, it will be because he makes wholesale changes to his system and actually puts in the same blood, sweat and tears that the other 31 NFL head coaches do.

Either that or surround him with a stellar coaching staff that will hide his deficiencies and basically do alot of his work for him. But if you need to do that what's the point?

not to take anything away from gibbs. but one of the things he has always done best from football to nascar is surround himself with the best possible minds in the game and we all treat him like a god. so i dont think it would be fair if we bashed spurrier for doing the same.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by redskinsskickazz

not to take anything away from gibbs. but one of the things he has always done best from football to nascar is surround himself with the best possible minds in the game and we all treat him like a god. so i dont think it would be fair if we bashed spurrier for doing the same.

Spurrier failed the first time because he surrounded himself with UF bush league scrubs. I think we should credit Gibbs for for wisely choosing assistants, and hold spurrier somewhat accountable for not doing the same the first time.

I agree with you kickazz, that we shouldn't critique Spurrier if he came back and succeeded that way. Rather, we should commend him for finally figuring out what the NFL is all about. After all, what great head coach doesn't have a solid supporting staff around him. They all do!

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

You guys are quick to criticize spurrier, and he does deserve it of course, but the bigger problem was his supporting coaching staff. The change from george edwards to greg williams demonstrates that. If we had had this defense last year, we would have had a shot to make the playoffs. I think that Chris Mortenson's article last week did a pretty good job demonstrating that this is the consensus among many GM's.

As for Spurrier leaving lasting divisions in team unity, I think that's absurd. The problem with this team is not togetherness. In fact its not that mysterious what's wrong - its poor qb play, a spotty o line, and inexplicable offensive gameplanning.

Finally, to argue that this once again vaunted team once again sucking doesn't take heat off of spurier doesn't make much sense to me. Clearly, they have issues that transcend the limitations of the fun n' gun.

I wholeheartedly disagree on the first point. We had Marvin Lewis in Spurrier's first year and we finished at .500. Now I haven't read Mortenson's article from last week, but to me we had a better team in '02 than in '03.

I do agree with you that it's poor play by the qb and offensive line as well as curious gameplanning that seems to be the problem. Too much inconsistency in those two areas has just damned us. Brunell hasn't shown that he can complete any pass with any consistency, witness his yds per attempt and the failure to complete 3rd downs.

The game is pretty simple, stop people on 3rd down and convert your own. We've been in games because our defense has been stellar in getting off the field on 3rd downs, as good as any Skins defense I've ever seen. But with our offense consistently unable to convert 3rd and anything we are sunk.

Warm up Ramsey, it's almost that time.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

I wholeheartedly disagree on the first point. We had Marvin Lewis in Spurrier's first year and we finished at .500. Now I haven't read Mortenson's article from last week, but to me we had a better team in '02 than in '03.

I do agree with you that it's poor play by the qb and offensive line as well as curious gameplanning that seems to be the problem. Too much inconsistency in those two areas has just damned us. Brunell hasn't shown that he can complete any pass with any consistency, witness his yds per attempt and the failure to complete 3rd downs.

The game is pretty simple, stop people on 3rd down and convert your own. We've been in games because our defense has been stellar in getting off the field on 3rd downs, as good as any Skins defense I've ever seen. But with our offense consistently unable to convert 3rd and anything we are sunk.

Warm up Ramsey, it's almost that time.

I think you are kind of proving my point. With Marvin Lewis we had a top 10 defense (were we seventh?) and finished 7-9. Without him we were 5-11, in spite of adding more talent. Had Marvin Lewis not gotten the Cincinatti job, it would have been interesting to see how the team would have been.

[SkinsRock]

There were a number of games last year where we had the lead into the 4th quarter, but the D could not hold on. So I'll give some credence to the fact that a better D-coordinator like Lewis or Williams would have given us at least 2-3 more wins.
That said, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Gibbs and this year's team. The team attitude is so much better, even with a miserable 2-5 record. They want to stick it outand pull out of this funk together, and that is a direct reflection of their coach. Spurrier would be saying he doesn't know what to do right about now....if not already.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by redskinsskickazz

not to take anything away from gibbs. but one of the things he has always done best from football to nascar is surround himself with the best possible minds in the game and we all treat him like a god. so i dont think it would be fair if we bashed spurrier for doing the same.

There's a difference though. Gibbs puts in an insane amount of hours right along with his assistants. He surrounds himself with great coaches but he's not leaving Redskins Park at 4pm to hit the greens. Gibbs understands it takes a great staff AND alot of hard work to be successful.

I don't think Spurrier really understood the work that NFL head coaches put in each week, game in and game out, gameplanning, breaking down film, studying your opponents tendencies, etc. Spurrier thought all he had to do was show up on Sundays with his fun 'n' gun system and everything would take care of itself. I guess there's more to the NFL than just a few ball plays, huh?

For his sake I hope he does dive in head first if he comes back. If he doesn't he'll likely be out on his butt in 2-3 seasons once again.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

I think you are kind of proving my point. With Marvin Lewis we had a top 10 defense (were we seventh?) and finished 7-9. Without him we were 5-11, in spite of adding more talent. Had Marvin Lewis not gotten the Cincinatti job, it would have been interesting to see how the team would have been.

Lewis wasn't going to fix the major protection problems we had on offense though.

Spurrier was supposed to be an offensive genius, instead he was very overmatched by NFL defensive coordinators who read his offense like a children's book.