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Daseal · 10-20-2004, 07:04 PM

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<blockquote>
3. Who has the most ill-advised offensive strategy in the season's first six weeks?

In his first six games as a Redskin, running back Clinton Portis has been unwisely run ragged. The 5-foot-11, 207-pound Portis really isn't built for this kind of pounding, and chances are good that Washington (2-4) will pay for his heavy workload at some point this season. With 36 carries for 171 yards in the Redskins' 13-10 win at Chicago on Sunday, Portis already has an NFL-high 153 carries, 21 more than the next busiest rusher, the Jets' Curtis Martin. That's roughly an extra game's worth of work.

At this rate, Portis will finish the season (if he can) with a whopping 408 rushes, after never having more than 290 in his two 1,500-yard seasons in Denver. Yes, Portis leads the NFC with 593 yards rushing, but his average carry of 3.9 yards is lower than all but two of the conference's top 10 ground gainers (the Falcons' Warrick Dunn at 3.9, and the 49ers' Kevan Barlow at 3.7). Throw in his 16 receptions, and Portis has had the ball in his hands an average of 28.1 times per game, a pace that would translate to 450 touches this season.

Who does Washington think he is, Larry Brown?

News flash: With smaller running backs, less is usually more. The Giants' Tiki Barber has just 16 fewer yards than Portis, but his 577 yards have come on 57 fewer carries, giving him a 6.0-yard average run. The Jets' Martin leads the NFL with 613 yards on those 132 attempts, with a 4.6 average and six touchdowns.

Portis has just two 100-yard rushing games so far, and both came in the Redskins' wins. He ran for 148 yards on 29 attempts (5.1) on opening day against Tampa Bay, and then turned in his workhorse performance at Chicago (4.8). In Washington's four losses, he has notched mediocre average rushes of 3.5 on 20 attempts, 4.1 on 23, 2.9 on 20, and 2.1 on 25.

The numbers seem to say the Redskins have to over-use him to have a chance to win, but that's a short-sighted mentality considering Washington isn't going to the playoffs under any scenario in 2004. The Redskins gave up a ton to get Portis, even though he's not a great fit for the power-running game favored by head coach Joe Gibbs. They should resist the urge to overburden him at all costs.

</blockquote>

itvnetop · 10-20-2004, 07:14 PM

the difference between barber and martin is that both of those guys have qb's playing fairly well (warner and pennington). i think once our passing game opens up, it may relieve some stress for portis to run so much. i am kind of worried that his body won't be able to take this amount of punishment, both this season and for the long term (look what happened to eddie george).

otoh, didn't he say he wanted the ball until his tongue hangs out?

cpayne5 · 10-20-2004, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itvnetop

the difference between barber and martin is that both of those guys have qb's playing fairly well (warner and pennington). i think once our passing game opens up, it may relieve some stress for portis to run so much. i am kind of worried that his body won't be able to take this amount of punishment, both this season and for the long term (look what happened to eddie george).

otoh, didn't he say he wanted the ball until his tongue hangs out?

Yeah. The only thing we've got right now is Portis, unfortunately. Once the passing games catches a groove, Portis will not have to carry the ENTIRE offensive load every Sunday. Until then, expect to see more of Portis. If the game on Sunday had been put away, I would have expected to see Betts come in.

Riggo44 · 10-20-2004, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itvnetop

the difference between barber and martin is that both of those guys have qb's playing fairly well (warner and pennington). i think once our passing game opens up, it may relieve some stress for portis to run so much. i am kind of worried that his body won't be able to take this amount of punishment, both this season and for the long term (look what happened to eddie george).

otoh, didn't he say he wanted the ball until his tongue hangs out?

I agree with you guys. If we can start passing better Portis won't have to work so hard. But for now we need him to carry our offense.
But if you ask me I would have to say Eddie George had a pretty good carreer. I think the Skins would take that kind of production from Portis.

Skins4SB · 10-20-2004, 08:49 PM

Ruben Droughns is the same size as Portis and ever since he stared he has been averaging 34 carries a game and 2 catches a game. After Portis has a good game in a Skins uniform someone had to come around bash it.

GoSkins! · 10-20-2004, 09:01 PM

We needed Portis to win that game PERIOD!!! I don't think that Gibbs is going to run Portis that much very often but....

1) He will when he has to to win a close game.
2) He will when he knows that he has a bye the next week and he can let him heal.
3) He will when Portis says he can go.

I'm sure that Gibbs knows by now that there are a few pieces missing in the puzzle. One is the heavyweight running back for short yards another is to get Jansen back. 10 years away from the game did not make him an idiot. Also, Gibbs will find a way to start hitting a few more passes and once that happens the offense will become much more effective.

I watched a lot of skins games (way back when) and I can tell you that the one thing Gibbs needs to get back is his ability make those 2nd half changes that seal the coffin on the other team. To do that he really has to know his players a little better. Trust me, it will happen. Remember Dick Vermeils first year back...

4TH RING · 10-20-2004, 09:04 PM

Running backs historicaly have the shortest careers. They're constantly in there colliding at full speed with guys who are bigger & take a lot of punishment. I've yet to see Portis not in there at the end of a game because he's "overused". I'm also tired of hearing that it was shanahans system that made him shine. Have they forgotten about Gibbs first go around? With the offensive line that we had in the 80's & early 90's you could put anybody in there (griffin, droughns, portis) and they would go for a 1000 every season. I think that is the key to any running backs success unless your name is Barry Sanders. I do agree that the system is a problem in part, not that it won't work but he is just beginning to fully grasp it. I think once everybody is on the same page he'll be alright. Another thing, with the eratic offensive production in the passing game coordinaters are focusing on Portis and that's another reason his yards per numbers are'nt impressive. I think we'll see improvement in the numbers as the season goes on and we have better balance on offense.

SUNRA · 10-20-2004, 09:52 PM

What Bugel and staff did against Chicago was pitch the ball to Portis which was highly effective and avoids the heavy contact that he would indure running in the middle. I also read somewhere that Gibbs and Bugel looked at the Broncos offensive blocking schemes which Portis was used to and they adjusted the blocking to suit him. Ladell Betts will get more carries as the game progresses and should be able to block effectively on the play action pass. I know I'm excited about hearing Baxter and Kozlowski resigned because that should protect Brunell long enough for him to make the big play.

Daseal · 10-20-2004, 10:11 PM

I didn't mean to start a fight, just posted something I saw that related to the skins.

I personally think that we should be carefull about running him too much. He's a great back, but if we're going to run that many times, mix up the backs some. I think some sort of vertical air game would change this whole situation around!

4TH RING · 10-20-2004, 11:50 PM

We're not fighting just merely stating our opinions. And I appreciate the insight that my fellow Redskin Fans provide so I don't feel offended if they disagree. I'm not above saying I'm wrong and I actualy like hearing other peoples angles on different subjects. It makes me a more knowledgeable fan & I feel proud to know that there's a lot of fan's out there that care as much as I do about our team.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 10-21-2004, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

What Bugel and staff did against Chicago was pitch the ball to Portis which was highly effective and avoids the heavy contact that he would indure running in the middle. I also read somewhere that Gibbs and Bugel looked at the Broncos offensive blocking schemes which Portis was used to and they adjusted the blocking to suit him. Ladell Betts will get more carries as the game progresses and should be able to block effectively on the play action pass. I know I'm excited about hearing Baxter and Kozlowski resigned because that should protect Brunell long enough for him to make the big play.

I'm extremely glad to hear that blocking schemes are adopted to fit the players and not the coaches. The coaches who are successful are those that can adapt.

Daseal · 10-21-2004, 12:48 AM

Amen Ramseyfan.. Let's see if we can adapt to a QB now =p

cpayne5 · 10-21-2004, 10:20 PM

Hmm, maybe send him out in a powered wheel chair. Is that adaptive enough?

10-20-2004, 07:04 PM	#1
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Yahoo Column: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_yl...nnsi&type=lgns <blockquote> 3. Who has the most ill-advised offensive strategy in the season's first six weeks? In his first six games as a Redskin, running back Clinton Portis has been unwisely run ragged. The 5-foot-11, 207-pound Portis really isn't built for this kind of pounding, and chances are good that Washington (2-4) will pay for his heavy workload at some point this season. With 36 carries for 171 yards in the Redskins' 13-10 win at Chicago on Sunday, Portis already has an NFL-high 153 carries, 21 more than the next busiest rusher, the Jets' Curtis Martin. That's roughly an extra game's worth of work. At this rate, Portis will finish the season (if he can) with a whopping 408 rushes, after never having more than 290 in his two 1,500-yard seasons in Denver. Yes, Portis leads the NFC with 593 yards rushing, but his average carry of 3.9 yards is lower than all but two of the conference's top 10 ground gainers (the Falcons' Warrick Dunn at 3.9, and the 49ers' Kevan Barlow at 3.7). Throw in his 16 receptions, and Portis has had the ball in his hands an average of 28.1 times per game, a pace that would translate to 450 touches this season. Who does Washington think he is, Larry Brown? News flash: With smaller running backs, less is usually more. The Giants' Tiki Barber has just 16 fewer yards than Portis, but his 577 yards have come on 57 fewer carries, giving him a 6.0-yard average run. The Jets' Martin leads the NFL with 613 yards on those 132 attempts, with a 4.6 average and six touchdowns. Portis has just two 100-yard rushing games so far, and both came in the Redskins' wins. He ran for 148 yards on 29 attempts (5.1) on opening day against Tampa Bay, and then turned in his workhorse performance at Chicago (4.8). In Washington's four losses, he has notched mediocre average rushes of 3.5 on 20 attempts, 4.1 on 23, 2.9 on 20, and 2.1 on 25. The numbers seem to say the Redskins have to over-use him to have a chance to win, but that's a short-sighted mentality considering Washington isn't going to the playoffs under any scenario in 2004. The Redskins gave up a ton to get Portis, even though he's not a great fit for the power-running game favored by head coach Joe Gibbs. They should resist the urge to overburden him at all costs. </blockquote>

10-20-2004, 09:52 PM	#8
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	What Bugel and staff did against Chicago was pitch the ball to Portis which was highly effective and avoids the heavy contact that he would indure running in the middle. I also read somewhere that Gibbs and Bugel looked at the Broncos offensive blocking schemes which Portis was used to and they adjusted the blocking to suit him. Ladell Betts will get more carries as the game progresses and should be able to block effectively on the play action pass. I know I'm excited about hearing Baxter and Kozlowski resigned because that should protect Brunell long enough for him to make the big play. __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

10-21-2004, 10:20 PM	#13
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	Hmm, maybe send him out in a powered wheel chair. Is that adaptive enough? __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

10-20-2004, 07:14 PM	#2
itvnetop Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 47 Posts: 3,007	the difference between barber and martin is that both of those guys have qb's playing fairly well (warner and pennington). i think once our passing game opens up, it may relieve some stress for portis to run so much. i am kind of worried that his body won't be able to take this amount of punishment, both this season and for the long term (look what happened to eddie george). otoh, didn't he say he wanted the ball until his tongue hangs out?

10-20-2004, 08:49 PM	#5
Skins4SB Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 38	Ruben Droughns is the same size as Portis and ever since he stared he has been averaging 34 carries a game and 2 catches a game. After Portis has a good game in a Skins uniform someone had to come around bash it.

10-20-2004, 09:01 PM	#6
GoSkins! The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yorktown, Va Age: 55 Posts: 1,587	We needed Portis to win that game PERIOD!!! I don't think that Gibbs is going to run Portis that much very often but.... 1) He will when he has to to win a close game. 2) He will when he knows that he has a bye the next week and he can let him heal. 3) He will when Portis says he can go. I'm sure that Gibbs knows by now that there are a few pieces missing in the puzzle. One is the heavyweight running back for short yards another is to get Jansen back. 10 years away from the game did not make him an idiot. Also, Gibbs will find a way to start hitting a few more passes and once that happens the offense will become much more effective. I watched a lot of skins games (way back when) and I can tell you that the one thing Gibbs needs to get back is his ability make those 2nd half changes that seal the coffin on the other team. To do that he really has to know his players a little better. Trust me, it will happen. Remember Dick Vermeils first year back...

10-20-2004, 09:04 PM	#7
4TH RING Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 129	Running backs historicaly have the shortest careers. They're constantly in there colliding at full speed with guys who are bigger & take a lot of punishment. I've yet to see Portis not in there at the end of a game because he's "overused". I'm also tired of hearing that it was shanahans system that made him shine. Have they forgotten about Gibbs first go around? With the offensive line that we had in the 80's & early 90's you could put anybody in there (griffin, droughns, portis) and they would go for a 1000 every season. I think that is the key to any running backs success unless your name is Barry Sanders. I do agree that the system is a problem in part, not that it won't work but he is just beginning to fully grasp it. I think once everybody is on the same page he'll be alright. Another thing, with the eratic offensive production in the passing game coordinaters are focusing on Portis and that's another reason his yards per numbers are'nt impressive. I think we'll see improvement in the numbers as the season goes on and we have better balance on offense.

10-20-2004, 10:11 PM	#9
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I didn't mean to start a fight, just posted something I saw that related to the skins. I personally think that we should be carefull about running him too much. He's a great back, but if we're going to run that many times, mix up the backs some. I think some sort of vertical air game would change this whole situation around!

10-20-2004, 11:50 PM	#10
4TH RING Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 129	We're not fighting just merely stating our opinions. And I appreciate the insight that my fellow Redskin Fans provide so I don't feel offended if they disagree. I'm not above saying I'm wrong and I actualy like hearing other peoples angles on different subjects. It makes me a more knowledgeable fan & I feel proud to know that there's a lot of fan's out there that care as much as I do about our team.

10-21-2004, 12:48 AM	#12
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Amen Ramseyfan.. Let's see if we can adapt to a QB now =p

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