Commanders Post at The Warpath  

Home | Forums | Donate | Shop




Go Back   Commanders Post at The Warpath > Commanders Football > Locker Room Main Forum

Locker Room Main Forum Commanders Football & NFL discussion


Second coming of Reggie White?

Locker Room Main Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-25-2009, 05:31 AM   #1
stu_nna
Special Teams
 
stu_nna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Age: 47
Posts: 239
Second coming of Reggie White?

Second coming of Reggie White? - NFL News - FOX Sports on MSN?-
stu_nna is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 08-25-2009, 09:17 AM   #2
freddyg12
Playmaker
 
freddyg12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,540
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Mike, you beat me to it!

I actually almost posted a thread about the parallels to R. White right after we signed him. I remember a Wash. Post Magazine article in the mid 90s or so about how the team fell from super bowl winner in 91 to bottoming out when the free agency period started.

In that article, it said (don't quote me on the no.s) that White's agent told the skins he was theirs for $4mil a year. The skins had only offered 3.5, and they said no to the 4. G. Bay offered 4 & he took it. According to the story his final choice came down to the money, but he would've liked to play in DC over GB. The story kind of left a 'what if' scenario, implying that maybe signing white would've prevented the collapse of the mid 90s.

I wonder if Snyder, who was a fan in his 20s during that time, read that article or was told by older people in the organization how close the team was to signing white. I think Snyder feared that passing on Haynesworth would be like passing on R. White.

Of course, both wore 92 & went to UT, so the parallels are convenient at least!
freddyg12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 10:37 AM   #3
SouperMeister
Playmaker
 
SouperMeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Leesburg, VA
Age: 60
Posts: 3,419
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddyg12 View Post
Mike, you beat me to it!

I actually almost posted a thread about the parallels to R. White right after we signed him. I remember a Wash. Post Magazine article in the mid 90s or so about how the team fell from super bowl winner in 91 to bottoming out when the free agency period started.

In that article, it said (don't quote me on the no.s) that White's agent told the skins he was theirs for $4mil a year. The skins had only offered 3.5, and they said no to the 4. G. Bay offered 4 & he took it. According to the story his final choice came down to the money, but he would've liked to play in DC over GB. The story kind of left a 'what if' scenario, implying that maybe signing white would've prevented the collapse of the mid 90s.

I wonder if Snyder, who was a fan in his 20s during that time, read that article or was told by older people in the organization how close the team was to signing white. I think Snyder feared that passing on Haynesworth would be like passing on R. White.

Of course, both wore 92 & went to UT, so the parallels are convenient at least!
Even bigger than letting White slip away was the Skins poor draft record during that era.

In '92, the FO traded the #6 and #28 overall to move up to #4 overall, selecting Desmond Howard. Troy Vincent was there for the taking at #6 and Carl Pickens at #28, both quickly established themselves as Pro Bowlers while Howard was a total bust.

In '94 the FO selected Health Shuler #3 overall, hoping he would develop into our Troy Aikman. Another bust.

In '95, Michael Westbrook was selected #4 overall to be our Michael Irvin, but aside from a single 1000 yard season, he was a chronic underachiever. And BTW, Warren Sapp was available at #4.

Three top five draft busts in 4 years - that's almost hard to do. That said, Reggie White was the greatest D-lineman of all-time IMO, and he would have certainly solidified the Skins D during that era.
SouperMeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 10:48 AM   #4
freddyg12
Playmaker
 
freddyg12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,540
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperMeister View Post
Even bigger than letting White slip away was the Skins poor draft record during that era.

In '92, the FO traded the #6 and #28 overall to move up to #4 overall, selecting Desmond Howard. Troy Vincent was there for the taking at #6 and Carl Pickens at #28, both quickly established themselves as Pro Bowlers while Howard was a total bust.

In '94 the FO selected Health Shuler #3 overall, hoping he would develop into our Troy Aikman. Another bust.

In '95, Michael Westbrook was selected #4 overall to be our Michael Irvin, but aside from a single 1000 yard season, he was a chronic underachiever. And BTW, Warren Sapp was available at #4.

Three top five draft busts in 4 years - that's almost hard to do. That said, Reggie White was the greatest D-lineman of all-time IMO, and he would have certainly solidified the Skins D during that era.
agreed. In particular, the year that we passed on Sapp I was up in arms.

I looked for that wash post mag. article online but couldn't find it, but what I remember was it broke down every facet of the Skins fall from grace, including the Monk debacle.

Casserly & Gibbs said that during the glory years, players' agents were always asking them how they could work a deal to play for the skins. The FO thought that free agency would be a boon for them & they would land top talent at the price they wanted to pay. What happened was that players were more about the $ than they realized, playing for the skins wasn't as coveted as the 49ers, and suddenly salaries skyrocketed for players that used to be cheap, namely o-linemen.

As I recall, the theory implied in letting white sign w/GB was that had they signed him AND made some other good moves (they also made bad fa signings at this time such as Tim Mcgee, Al Noga), Pettibon might've kept the job and all those other dominoes wouldn't have fallen. i.e. if white had signed maybe Norv & his poor draft picks + letting Monk go would've never happened.

No doubt though, there were a lot of reasons for the collapse. I'm still bitter toward Norvelle more than anyone else, though I know he was only part of it.
freddyg12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 11:05 AM   #5
FRPLG
MVP
 
FRPLG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 46
Posts: 10,164
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddyg12 View Post
No doubt though, there were a lot of reasons for the collapse. I'm still bitter toward Norvelle more than anyone else, though I know he was only part of it.
I don't think Norv is a great coach but I think he is ok. I do think his teams were awful more because he just didn't have all that much talent. The poor talent acquisition in the mid 90's killed the team through 2000. Then a whole different kind of poor talent acquisition killed th team through 2004.
FRPLG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 11:25 AM   #6
IH8Snyder
Camp Scrub
 
IH8Snyder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Woodbridge
Posts: 1
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

I think that the Skins have forgotten all about the draft and are relying on free agency to bail them out. But look at what SouperMeister said and see if you can really blame them. They have made some poor decisions in the draft with one major exception ORAKPO!!!!
IH8Snyder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 11:33 AM   #7
CRedskinsRule
Living Legend
 
CRedskinsRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 57
Posts: 21,380
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IH8Snyder View Post
I think that the Skins have forgotten all about the draft and are relying on free agency to bail them out. But look at what SouperMeister said and see if you can really blame them. They have made some poor decisions in the draft with one major exception ORAKPO!!!!
Welcome to the board. Here is a good post if you want to see a different perspective on our recent drafts:

http://www.thewarpath.net/579525-post109.html
CRedskinsRule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 12:15 PM   #8
Monkeydad
Living Legend
 
Monkeydad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: PA
Age: 45
Posts: 17,460
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IH8Snyder View Post
I think that the Skins have forgotten all about the draft and are relying on free agency to bail them out. But look at what SouperMeister said and see if you can really blame them. They have made some poor decisions in the draft with one major exception ORAKPO!!!!
Welcome.

I actually think the last 2 drafts were solid.

We could eventually have 4 long-term starters from 2008: Thomas, Kelly, Davis, Horton and who knows...Rinehart, Tryon, Moore, Rob Jackson and even Colt Brennan could play into the future. The only BAD pick was the punter, Durant Brooks.

This year, we could have drafted the best player in the entire draft with Orakpo. Kevin Barnes, Eddie Williams and Marko Mitchell will prove to be valuable team members and depth. We did a lot without a lot of picks but more importantly, knew to take Orakpo when he was somehow still available. If we had traded for Sanchez, I would have a much different feeling about the draft, I always thought that would be a bad idea.
__________________
Not sent from a Droid, iPhone, Blackberry or toaster
Monkeydad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 12:30 PM   #9
NYCskinfan82
Playmaker
 
NYCskinfan82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Queens, NYC
Age: 55
Posts: 3,803
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Only time will tell. But I beleive finally there going in the right direction.
NYCskinfan82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 12:43 PM   #10
freddyg12
Playmaker
 
freddyg12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,540
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRPLG View Post
I don't think Norv is a great coach but I think he is ok. I do think his teams were awful more because he just didn't have all that much talent. The poor talent acquisition in the mid 90's killed the team through 2000. Then a whole different kind of poor talent acquisition killed th team through 2004.
It's always unfair to single out one man only. In fairness, Norv was there in a difficult time for the organization. JK Cooke was in his last years then passed away & the uncertain ownership of the team led in part to Trent Green leaving.

I'm particularly hard on Norv due to:
1) He was a cowboy coach & he brought in cowpokes, none of which panned out. I always hated the idea of hiring a rival

2) He was part of Art Monk leaving town. After initially declining the skins offer, when Monk's agent came back & said that they would take it, norvelle told mgmt. that the wr spot was set as he'd signed Henry Ellard. Can't argue w/Ellard's production, but if you show a legend the door, you better win (see J. Jones hiring of Jimmy Johnson).

3) He wanted Westbrook in 95 when Sapp was available & the D was in need.

4) He chose G. Frerotte as starter over Shuler. I know Shuler's career snowballed to nothing, but sometimes players careers are derailed by coaching decisions, poor fit for the scheme, etc. I was never convinced that Frerotte really outplayed shuler in their preseason battle in 96. (I realize history is on norv's & Gus' side here)

5) Those were just some dark years. To his credit he beat the cowboys a bit, even sweeping them in their last super bowl year. But his teams seemed to have a knock for losing in creative ways.
freddyg12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 01:33 PM   #11
JoeRedskin
Contains football related knowledge
 
JoeRedskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Second Star On The Right
Age: 61
Posts: 10,401
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

My problem with Norv was that, as freddyg pointed out, Norv's teams always seemed to find new and stupid ways to lose. They just made high-school type mistakes and (I seem to remember this, it may be wrong) come up small in big games.
__________________
Strap it up, hold onto the ball, and let’s go.
JoeRedskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 01:34 PM   #12
over the mountain
Playmaker
 
over the mountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: close to the edge
Posts: 4,926
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperMeister View Post

In '92, the FO traded the #6 and #28 overall to move up to #4 overall, selecting Desmond Howard. Troy Vincent was there for the taking at #6 and Carl Pickens at #28, both quickly established themselves as Pro Bowlers while Howard was a total bust.
ahh geez i remember when we drafted howard out of michigan. man was a burner, to bad he didnt play a position. 92 doesnt seem that long ago, you sure it was 92? damn im old.

didnt he win the superbowl mvp with the packers?

go skins!!
__________________
Life is brutal, but beautiful
over the mountain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 01:38 PM   #13
SmootSmack
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 45,256
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Norv was in way over his head as a head coach. He just had no idea how to manage. I'm not saying he got no respect in the locker room, but his nickname was Rodney.

He's doing ok now in a relatively mediocre division, but I think he also benefits from being in a market that isn't quite as passionate as DC
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 01:42 PM   #14
SmootSmack
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 45,256
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Just think if the Redskins had signed White, then maybe the Packers wouldn't have gotten a ring and maybe Favre would just be another Drew Bledsoe
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 01:44 PM   #15
freddyg12
Playmaker
 
freddyg12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,540
Re: Second coming of Reggie White?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Norv was in way over his head as a head coach. He just had no idea how to manage. I'm not saying he got no respect in the locker room, but his nickname was Rodney.

He's doing ok now in a relatively mediocre division, but I think he also benefits from being in a market that isn't quite as passionate as DC
He also took over a 14-2 team that was run by a tough coach, and he got to be the 'players coach' which is a better role for him. We've got to kill the charges this year!
freddyg12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We have no official affiliation with the Washington Commanders or the NFL.
Page generated in 5.40552 seconds with 10 queries