Portis and the Denver System Revisited

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 09-21-2004, 11:31 AM

I happen to believe that Portis is one of the league's best backs. But if you do not believe that the Denver system makes backs look damn good, you are in denial and need help.

Well, this is my intervention. The formerly-Alex Gibbs-coached Denver line makes Quentin Griffin, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Terrell Davis and just about every other back look awesome. Sure Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis were/are both great backs, but there's no doubt that the system made them really shine.

Portis averaged just 3.0 yards per carry (excluding that awesome 64-yard cut back for the TD) last week. Many said, you can't take away the 64-yard TD run. True enough, he got it, he's good, end of story as far as that week's stats are concerned. BUT, taking away the 64-yard run was useful in examining how good the run-blocking really was and how quick Clinton was in hitting those holes.

Many then said, well, it was Tampa Bay's defense that limited Portis. Okay, well then, why was it that the Giants defense limited him to less than 70 yards and a 3.5 yards-per-carry average? The Giants defense has not been a powerhouse in awhile and the Eagles had a pretty easy time running ball in Week 1.

To give you some perspective, Troy Hambrick fared better last year in his ypc than Portis did last week against the G-men (or against the Bucs if you take away the 64-yarder). The running game is stinking up the stadiums and needs to improve for Gibbs to be successful.

For those of you who are about to have a sh-t-fit, take a deep breath. I know that Portis is great, I know that Bugel will shore up the run-blocking, and I know that it's only week 2. But, if you are not a little concerned about Portis' low ypc stat, Portis' apparent slowness in hitting the holes (when they exist), and the poor run-blocking, you should be.

SUNRA · 09-21-2004, 12:11 PM

I'm not concerned at all with the run blocking. Portis has to way for his blockers to open the hole instead of running on their hills and causing one of the fumbles. Portis gained 1,500 yds. for two consecutive seasons because of big one play yard gains. He also showed us that he can run a WR route and catch a TD if he has to. That's a play that we should use against Dallas.

Shane · 09-21-2004, 12:13 PM

I think that we have an issue with offensive line stability. The Broncos' line had the same coach and the same players I think more or less for many years. We have had players coached in a system from Spurrier that should not have been in the NFL as it became clear.

Now we are finally getting the proper coaching, but it does take some time to adjust, and this is true for the team as a whole. Teams don't transform themselves overnight. It takes time to reorient yourself to a new pole star (the new coaching staff and its methods).

Furthermore, we are still trying to adjust to the unfortunate loss of Jon Jansen. In two weeks we have put forward two starters at right tackle. We have instability on the offensive line.

Still you have to look at the results that players have and ask why those results are there. In the case of Clinton Portis, he is clearly showing his ability on more than the one long run, and his two year career is nearly unparallelled in NFL history.

Another thing to remember about the Broncos - they make very good choices about who to draft as running backs. It's not just the line. In baseball, look at the Oakland Athletics and their record drafting pitchers in low rounds who turn into Tim Hudson, Barry Zito, Mark Mulder and so forth. Teams can be good at drafting, particularly for certain positions.

cpayne5 · 09-21-2004, 12:15 PM

I agree 100% with your assessment.

Portis hurt himself Sunday. When you fumble twice and allow the other team to get easy points, you take carries away from yourself. He had an excellent first drive and this may have continued if not for the turnovers.

SmootSmack · 09-21-2004, 12:52 PM

I guess the Jags figured something out Sunday. Holding Quentin to 66 yards on 25 carries.

Anyway, the Broncos system certainly helps its running backs, but give it time here. Gibbs' system does a fine job as well.

JWsleep · 09-21-2004, 12:59 PM

The run blocking could certainly be better! Gibbs and Bugel would be the first to admit that. And no doubt Denver has a great system (which includes having great backs to run in it); what else explains their amazing production year after year? But Gibbs and Bugel are top of the line run coaches: they'll figure out just what works with this bunch. But all this takes TIME.

Look, we all said "Oh, the offense will take time to gell, the D will have to pick up the slack, etc." This is what that looks like! It ain't pretty, but we must go through this phase to get better. Further, (and this is a big deal, I think) the line has been hit with injuries. All the personel has rearely actually been on the field together. ANd Jansen is missing. But rest assured, it will come.

PS I am willing to bet that both Gibbs and Bugel have watched countless hours of Denver running game footage. THey know better than to try and reinvent the wheel.

memphisskin · 09-21-2004, 02:03 PM

I wholeheartedly concur jwsleep, it will take TIME and Gibbs will undoubtedly borrow anything that he thinks will help.

The argument I heard most often was that Portis was the wrong type of runner for Gibbs' system. This argument basically says that Gibbs is blind and dumb, and will continue to try to push a round peg into a square hole.

I think Gibbs is about results. You don't win three SBs with three different qbs and three different running backs by focusing on a "system". I think the Gibbs system is about playing physical, smart football. I know Gibbs will find a way to get the running game going. My bet is that once the running game gets going, and it will at some point, the passing game will likely prosper.

Continuity. It's what I've been begging for out of Snyder since he bought the team. It's what Denver has and we don't, a continuous unbroken philosophy. Plus they've shown an ability to identify the types of runners that will do well in their system and have been successful in drafting those kinds of guys.

JWsleep · 09-21-2004, 02:14 PM

Incidently, Griffin had 66 yards on 25 carries against the Jags. That's a 2.6 yard average. Is the magic gone?????

skins009 · 09-21-2004, 02:54 PM

If you look at the tape of the fist two games. Portis was a beast on the first drives of the games. Then teams started to stack to box. THere is no team that can run with a stacked box. We must be able to throw it, then teams will back off and Portis will be able to kill them the whole game instead of on the opening drives.

JWsleep · 09-21-2004, 03:13 PM

Totally agree, Skins009.

Gmanc711 · 09-21-2004, 03:16 PM

Absolutley. Barry Sanders cant run vs eight in the box efficently. Teams have to respect our pass, which they dont right now. Why should they? We need to freaking air one for 80 yards and get teams to get some coverage out there. Well put skins009.

offiss · 09-21-2004, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

I'm not concerned at all with the run blocking. Portis has to way for his blockers to open the hole instead of running on their hills and causing one of the fumbles. Portis gained 1,500 yds. for two consecutive seasons because of big one play yard gains. He also showed us that he can run a WR route and catch a TD if he has to. That's a play that we should use against Dallas.

Sunra, are you saying Portis doesn't know how to follow his block's? He may be the most instinctive back in the league at following block's, that's what the Denver Blocking scheme is predicated on, following your blocker's until a hole emerges then hit it, what you have to understand is, when you have a straight ahead blocking scheme, the hole is either there or it isn't, it doesn't allow for free lansing as a back, which takes away some of Portis's best attributes, any back can run through a gaping hole, and Portis has the speed to take it farther than most, but we are really not maximixing his abilities if we have him running stright ahead, he need's to be in a trapping type of running game in order to use his read and react abilitiy, we don't have to tranform the entire blocking phylosophy, but we could put in a couple of play's that Denver use to run for him to see if it help's, 50 mil for a back, I would change what ever I had to to make sure he succeed's, and no way does it have to be a dramatic change, football is about adjusting to your talent, well let's see what the coaches come up with.

That Guy · 09-21-2004, 03:43 PM

i think the magic of the denver system is playing KC's defense twice a year...

la73hof · 09-21-2004, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

I guess the Jags figured something out Sunday. Holding Quentin to 66 yards on 25 carries.

Anyway, the Broncos system certainly helps its running backs, but give it time here. Gibbs' system does a fine job as well.

Its funny you mention that Smootsmack

I just got done checking out overall defense and scoring defense

Jacksonville is 2nd in the league in scoring defense. giving up 8 points a game and 9th in overall D

These numbers are nice but the mind boggling part of how good their defense has been is that they have been on the field for an astounding 35:30 average for both games they've played

Their defense has been on the field 11 minutes longer than their offense and theyre giving up 8 a game..

truly amazing

Gmanc711 · 09-21-2004, 05:50 PM

The Jaguars have a nasty defense. You could see them really starting to gel at the end of last season, and now they are just holdin it down. They were my 5-11 to 11-5 type team this season, and I still stand by that. They dont have any big names either, just a bunch of role players.

09-21-2004, 11:31 AM	#1
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	Portis and the Denver System Revisited I happen to believe that Portis is one of the league's best backs. But if you do not believe that the Denver system makes backs look damn good, you are in denial and need help. Well, this is my intervention. The formerly-Alex Gibbs-coached Denver line makes Quentin Griffin, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Terrell Davis and just about every other back look awesome. Sure Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis were/are both great backs, but there's no doubt that the system made them really shine. Portis averaged just 3.0 yards per carry (excluding that awesome 64-yard cut back for the TD) last week. Many said, you can't take away the 64-yard TD run. True enough, he got it, he's good, end of story as far as that week's stats are concerned. BUT, taking away the 64-yard run was useful in examining how good the run-blocking really was and how quick Clinton was in hitting those holes. Many then said, well, it was Tampa Bay's defense that limited Portis. Okay, well then, why was it that the Giants defense limited him to less than 70 yards and a 3.5 yards-per-carry average? The Giants defense has not been a powerhouse in awhile and the Eagles had a pretty easy time running ball in Week 1. To give you some perspective, Troy Hambrick fared better last year in his ypc than Portis did last week against the G-men (or against the Bucs if you take away the 64-yarder). The running game is stinking up the stadiums and needs to improve for Gibbs to be successful. For those of you who are about to have a sh-t-fit, take a deep breath. I know that Portis is great, I know that Bugel will shore up the run-blocking, and I know that it's only week 2. But, if you are not a little concerned about Portis' low ypc stat, Portis' apparent slowness in hitting the holes (when they exist), and the poor run-blocking, you should be.

09-21-2004, 12:11 PM	#2
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	I'm not concerned at all with the run blocking. Portis has to way for his blockers to open the hole instead of running on their hills and causing one of the fumbles. Portis gained 1,500 yds. for two consecutive seasons because of big one play yard gains. He also showed us that he can run a WR route and catch a TD if he has to. That's a play that we should use against Dallas. __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

09-21-2004, 12:15 PM	#4
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	I agree 100% with your assessment. Portis hurt himself Sunday. When you fumble twice and allow the other team to get easy points, you take carries away from yourself. He had an excellent first drive and this may have continued if not for the turnovers. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

09-21-2004, 12:52 PM	#5
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	I guess the Jags figured something out Sunday. Holding Quentin to 66 yards on 25 carries. Anyway, the Broncos system certainly helps its running backs, but give it time here. Gibbs' system does a fine job as well. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

09-21-2004, 12:59 PM	#6
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,714	The run blocking could certainly be better! Gibbs and Bugel would be the first to admit that. And no doubt Denver has a great system (which includes having great backs to run in it); what else explains their amazing production year after year? But Gibbs and Bugel are top of the line run coaches: they'll figure out just what works with this bunch. But all this takes TIME. Look, we all said "Oh, the offense will take time to gell, the D will have to pick up the slack, etc." This is what that looks like! It ain't pretty, but we must go through this phase to get better. Further, (and this is a big deal, I think) the line has been hit with injuries. All the personel has rearely actually been on the field together. ANd Jansen is missing. But rest assured, it will come. PS I am willing to bet that both Gibbs and Bugel have watched countless hours of Denver running game footage. THey know better than to try and reinvent the wheel. __________________ Hail from Houston!

09-21-2004, 12:13 PM	#3
Shane Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 277	I think that we have an issue with offensive line stability. The Broncos' line had the same coach and the same players I think more or less for many years. We have had players coached in a system from Spurrier that should not have been in the NFL as it became clear. Now we are finally getting the proper coaching, but it does take some time to adjust, and this is true for the team as a whole. Teams don't transform themselves overnight. It takes time to reorient yourself to a new pole star (the new coaching staff and its methods). Furthermore, we are still trying to adjust to the unfortunate loss of Jon Jansen. In two weeks we have put forward two starters at right tackle. We have instability on the offensive line. Still you have to look at the results that players have and ask why those results are there. In the case of Clinton Portis, he is clearly showing his ability on more than the one long run, and his two year career is nearly unparallelled in NFL history. Another thing to remember about the Broncos - they make very good choices about who to draft as running backs. It's not just the line. In baseball, look at the Oakland Athletics and their record drafting pitchers in low rounds who turn into Tim Hudson, Barry Zito, Mark Mulder and so forth. Teams can be good at drafting, particularly for certain positions.

09-21-2004, 02:03 PM	#7
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 53 Posts: 960	I wholeheartedly concur jwsleep, it will take TIME and Gibbs will undoubtedly borrow anything that he thinks will help. The argument I heard most often was that Portis was the wrong type of runner for Gibbs' system. This argument basically says that Gibbs is blind and dumb, and will continue to try to push a round peg into a square hole. I think Gibbs is about results. You don't win three SBs with three different qbs and three different running backs by focusing on a "system". I think the Gibbs system is about playing physical, smart football. I know Gibbs will find a way to get the running game going. My bet is that once the running game gets going, and it will at some point, the passing game will likely prosper. Continuity. It's what I've been begging for out of Snyder since he bought the team. It's what Denver has and we don't, a continuous unbroken philosophy. Plus they've shown an ability to identify the types of runners that will do well in their system and have been successful in drafting those kinds of guys.

09-21-2004, 02:14 PM	#8
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,714	Incidently, Griffin had 66 yards on 25 carries against the Jags. That's a 2.6 yard average. Is the magic gone????? __________________ Hail from Houston!

09-21-2004, 02:54 PM	#9
skins009 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 528	If you look at the tape of the fist two games. Portis was a beast on the first drives of the games. Then teams started to stack to box. THere is no team that can run with a stacked box. We must be able to throw it, then teams will back off and Portis will be able to kill them the whole game instead of on the opening drives.

09-21-2004, 03:13 PM	#10
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,714	Totally agree, Skins009. __________________ Hail from Houston!

09-21-2004, 03:16 PM	#11
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	Absolutley. Barry Sanders cant run vs eight in the box efficently. Teams have to respect our pass, which they dont right now. Why should they? We need to freaking air one for 80 yards and get teams to get some coverage out there. Well put skins009.

09-21-2004, 03:43 PM	#13
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	i think the magic of the denver system is playing KC's defense twice a year...

09-21-2004, 05:50 PM	#15
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	The Jaguars have a nasty defense. You could see them really starting to gel at the end of last season, and now they are just holdin it down. They were my 5-11 to 11-5 type team this season, and I still stand by that. They dont have any big names either, just a bunch of role players.

Portis and the Denver System Revisited

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