Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

SmootSmack · 09-26-2007, 11:37 AM

First of all, I'm not about to apologize for being a Gibbs' fan. People want to throw all that "You drink the Kool-Aid" "You think Gibbs can do no wrong" accusations they want. Do I think he's infallible? Of course not. But he was the centerpiece of the team during the 80's and the biggest reason I'm part of this site. If not for him, I'm probably not that big a fan. The Redskins were a huge part of my childhood. I have a lot of great memories thanks to the Redskins and Joe Gibbs. For those that grew up in my generation I'm sure you can relate. For those that didn't and don't care about Gibbs, understand what Gibbs means to us.

All that said, here's my question. Why is that people think Gibbs' style of football can't win in today's NFL?

"Gibbs' Football" permeates throughout the league. The single back sets you see all throughout the league, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that. The Steelers offense that won them a Super Bowl 2 years ago, and has them at 3-0 this year, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that. The Trips formations that the aforementioned Steelers and defending champion Colts use, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that. The multiple (2-3) tight end sets that arguably the two best teams in the NFL today (Cowboys and Patriots) use, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that.

These are all Joe Gibbs innovations. He's one of the most creative coaches the NFL has seen in the last 30 years and his impact is felt throughout the league.

So why do people insist his way won't work in today's NFL? And I know it hasn't at a consisent level so far for the Redskins. But it does for others.

Why is that?

Takeuon · 09-26-2007, 11:49 AM

Is it that the offense as a whole in the league over the last ten years has just evolved past what "used" to work for him? I'm not exactly sure myself. But what I hear most often is basically what you heard....the game has become quicker and the play calling has "passed him by" I call BS on that theory...Gibbs is smart enough to understand this and mix it up. Think he doesnt spend HOURS watching CURRENT game film!?? But somethings missing :o( My opinion is he may need a General Manager to help alleviate personell issues and allow him to focus more on game plan. Agree, disagree??
No question that the (2-3) tight end is what I will probably most remember him contributing to todays current offense.

EARTHQUAKE2689 · 09-26-2007, 12:02 PM

i like kool-aid

#56fanatic · 09-26-2007, 12:06 PM

the game of football is basically the same as it was 20 years ago. Players change, some schemes may change but the basic formula for winning has not changes. Run the ball, stop the run. If you do that, you win. Now, as far a Gibbs goes. I grew up in the era of Skins domination. which is why its hard for me to take the losing that our team has suffered for the better part of 15 years. Do i think the game has passed him by?? not really. Some of the stuff he was so successful with in the 80's and 90's just doesn't work in todays NFL. the players are stonger, faster and more aggressive. Even he admitted as much. which is why i believe he brought in Saunders, for his innovative play calling and offensive system. I dont understand how his system does not work in DC. Maybe the players just haven't bought into it, who knows. Gibbs football today may work, however offenses in this league are far more explosive (for the most part) than what they use to be. You can not sit on a 14 point lead like you use to. Teams, any team, can strike quickly. I think gibbs is an awesome motivator, guys run through walls for that guy. i do think he may need to adjust slightly to todays game. His play calling is a bit conservative.

it all comes down to wins and losses. If we win, Joe Gibbs football is back and it works. if we lose, then its too conservative and it wont work. I guess its a wait and see thing right now. only 3 games into it - we shall see what the other 13 games hold.

irish · 09-26-2007, 12:32 PM

There are only so many was you can line up 11 guys and I suspect they have all been done before. Gibbs style can still win. Gibbs himself seemed to think his style couldnt still win so he brought in Saunders. Saunders has a different style from Gibbs but now that AS is here it seems like Gibbs does not want to let AS completely do what he was brought here to do.

IMO, the problem is that this team has different offensive philosophies (Gibbs & Saunders) and since neither one is fully used the team is stuck with an offense that does not really know what it wants to do.

Hog1 · 09-26-2007, 12:45 PM

We have an execution problem, not JG2 system prob!
Nice thread SS

Longtimefan · 09-26-2007, 12:49 PM

The coach is the Carpenter, and the Carpenter is no better than his tools. Coaches do not win or lose football games, players do. Therefore I'm of the opinion more attention should be given to the assembly of players and their dedication to winning as opposed to coaching style. All coaches and systems has flaws, but the committment and dedication of players is key.

I'm sure we're going to have more discussion on this very same topic as the season progresses, and espically after each loss. I look foreward to what future excuses will be when we lose a game. This never seems to be a sane place after we lose a game. I chose to abort after each loss, history has demonstrated what it's going to be like.

Schneed10 · 09-26-2007, 01:00 PM

For me to answer the question in the title of this thread, someone will have to define for me what "work" means.

In 2005 we made the playoffs and went 10-6. Did Gibbs football not "work" that year? Is something "working" defined as winning a Superbowl and that's it?

I mean, last year we were 4th in the league in rushing offense. Seems like whatever football it was (Gibbs football or Saunders football) it worked - except for the fact that we didn't have much of a QB. What didn't work was Gregg Williams football.

Did Gibbs football not work against the Dolphins and the Eagles this year? Did it not work for the first half against the Giants? Really, of the 12 quarters of football we've played this year, hasn't Gibbs football worked for most of them?

The other thing I'm going to say is that the Salary Cap Era forces you to adapt your roster and transform your team a little more slowly. With the absolute mess that Spurrier left this team in, for Gibbs to get us to 10-6 and to the playoffs in his second year, is probably one of the greatest coaching accomplishments of his illustrious career. I'll admit, last year he had a down year, mainly attributable to his defense. But the jury's still out on this year folks. I think Gibbs football is "working" as we speak.

skins268 · 09-26-2007, 01:04 PM

I totally disagree with this because granted,running the ball on 2 straight downs might not have been the best decision,But,on 2nd down we ran a quick screen and being that close to the endzone everyone knows that running a screen or short pass it has to be done fast and seeing that the 2nd down short pass failed because of a mad rush no way was he going to have Campbell throw a Pick that close and Kill JC's confidence and the team hopes-because a INT deflates everything soo fast_}{_so in conclusion we ran the same play that most of the league would have Ran._Go Skins_ and lets get ready for the Bye!

12thMan · 09-26-2007, 01:13 PM

I think this thread alone speaks to the frustration of the fan base and the division we've seen here on Warpath for the past three years, and more recently Sunday's lost.

First of all, let's take a look at some criticisms of other coaches around the league. Now whether they're true or not, there are probably enough trends and evidence out there to support these to some degree, if not entirely.

For instance, if I say Tom Coughlin, immediately you think something along the lines of hard nosed, disciplinarian, inflexible, old school, or cranky. You also get the impression that he alienates his players. If say Bill Belichick. Again, you think genius, winner, asshole (perhaps), cheater, or douche bag. But you rarely, if ever, think loser, too conservative, no fire, or "behind the times" when Belichick's name is mentioned. One more: And this isn't really a criticism, but just to give you an idea of what image pops in your head: Herm Edwards. Now with Herm you never get the impression that he's the greatest head coach in the world, but you do get the feeling he's a "player's coach" or a "motivator"....a good man. We know this and the guy has never coached one day in D.C.

And this brings me to Joe Gibbs and, specifically Joe Gibbs football. To be honest with you, I'm not sure what to quite make of his first three, going on four years here. To be frank, that in and of itself is a little troubling. Not one of us can quite put our finger on his style this time around and how his brand of coaching affects the team's psyche. We know what we hear in the pressers and interviews and the coaches round table, but what have we really hung our hat on in three years?

I don't think Joe Gibbs football only consists of x's and o's, but his locker room presence, his half-time genius, his ability to get one or two great games out of a nobody free agent that could be released the following season. Joe Gibbs football is also about his staff being on the same page and a group of core Skins to rally the troops. (I'll get to that in a minute.)

Also, and this is just my general observation, I get the impression that while the current Redskins have great admiration and respect for Gibbs, I rarely hear them say, coach said this or coach said that. Or coach gave us an ear full after yesterday's lost. It's not so much in what they say, it's what they don't say. I know these are grown men, and professionals at that, but it's the absence of what hasn't been said that sticks out to me. See Joe Gibbs currenly has a bunch of great athletes that play the game of football, whereas before he had good football players (core Skins) that played great football. That's the major difference between Gibbs I and Gibbs II.

SmootSmack · 09-26-2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

For me to answer the question in the title of this thread, someone will have to define for me what "work" means.

In 2005 we made the playoffs and went 10-6. Did Gibbs football not "work" that year? Is something "working" defined as winning a Superbowl and that's it?

I mean, last year we were 4th in the league in rushing offense. Seems like whatever football it was (Gibbs football or Saunders football) it worked - except for the fact that we didn't have much of a QB. What didn't work was Gregg Williams football.

Did Gibbs football not work against the Dolphins and the Eagles this year? Did it not work for the first half against the Giants? Really, of the 12 quarters of football we've played this year, hasn't Gibbs football worked for most of them?

The other thing I'm going to say is that the Salary Cap Era forces you to adapt your roster and transform your team a little more slowly. With the absolute mess that Spurrier left this team in, for Gibbs to get us to 10-6 and to the playoffs in his second year, is probably one of the greatest coaching accomplishments of his illustrious career. I'll admit, last year he had a down year, mainly attributable to his defense. But the jury's still out on this year folks. I think Gibbs football is "working" as we speak.

Well, the full title should be "Why is there a previaling sentiment among several members on this board and others that 'it's blatantly obvious "Gibbs Football' well never work' 'The game has passed the old man by" and other such comments, when if you look around the NFL you can clearly see that "Gibbs Footbal" continues to work at a high rate, and has even worked when we've stuck to it here"

12thMan · 09-26-2007, 01:31 PM

Again, I want to reiterate and further drive my point home about Joe Gibbs football. Joe Gibbs football is also about Joe Gibbs football players. In my mind, the two are not separate. He needs his guys to play his brand of football. So, no it's not just about x's an o's, and it's not entirely about the salary cap either.

If I gave you a box with Betty Crocker written on the front and gave you all the neccessary ingredients, and tasked you with baking a cake, could you do it? Probably so. But to achieve max results, you need a damn oven don't you?

I think Gibbs has the right formula for winning, he has the right ingredients, but the temparture just 'aint right! And you can't manufacture baking temperature. Either you got it or you don't. And therein lies the mystery.

I believe I just answered Q3.

Schneed10 · 09-26-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, the full title should be "Why is there a previaling sentiment among several members on this board and others that 'it's blatantly obvious "Gibbs Football' well never work' 'The game has passed the old man by" and other such comments, when if you look around the NFL you can clearly see that "Gibbs Footbal" continues to work at a high rate, and has even worked when we've stuck to it here"

Yeah I get your gyst. And my response was intended to be directed at the dummies who insist Gibbs football doesn't "work."

GhettoDogAllStars · 09-26-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

For me to answer the question in the title of this thread, someone will have to define for me what "work" means.

In 2005 we made the playoffs and went 10-6. Did Gibbs football not "work" that year? Is something "working" defined as winning a Superbowl and that's it?

I mean, last year we were 4th in the league in rushing offense. Seems like whatever football it was (Gibbs football or Saunders football) it worked - except for the fact that we didn't have much of a QB. What didn't work was Gregg Williams football.

Did Gibbs football not work against the Dolphins and the Eagles this year? Did it not work for the first half against the Giants? Really, of the 12 quarters of football we've played this year, hasn't Gibbs football worked for most of them?

The other thing I'm going to say is that the Salary Cap Era forces you to adapt your roster and transform your team a little more slowly. With the absolute mess that Spurrier left this team in, for Gibbs to get us to 10-6 and to the playoffs in his second year, is probably one of the greatest coaching accomplishments of his illustrious career. I'll admit, last year he had a down year, mainly attributable to his defense. But the jury's still out on this year folks. I think Gibbs football is "working" as we speak.

Well said. You said what I was thinking, only in better words.

gibbsisgod · 09-26-2007, 01:44 PM

JG football works, just not the same gameplan every week. IMO, different Teams require different offensive approaches. I still think if we had taken the reins off of JC the outcome would have been quite different. I love JG and don't like to question him on much. he knows more than me or anybody else on the site but I would like to see a more explosive offense. Not just the same old shit, get up by 7 or 10 and then just sit on it. This isn't the team of the 80's and 90's where we had by far the most talent on the feild almost every week. We need to be more creative.

09-26-2007, 11:37 AM	#1
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? First of all, I'm not about to apologize for being a Gibbs' fan. People want to throw all that "You drink the Kool-Aid" "You think Gibbs can do no wrong" accusations they want. Do I think he's infallible? Of course not. But he was the centerpiece of the team during the 80's and the biggest reason I'm part of this site. If not for him, I'm probably not that big a fan. The Redskins were a huge part of my childhood. I have a lot of great memories thanks to the Redskins and Joe Gibbs. For those that grew up in my generation I'm sure you can relate. For those that didn't and don't care about Gibbs, understand what Gibbs means to us. All that said, here's my question. Why is that people think Gibbs' style of football can't win in today's NFL? "Gibbs' Football" permeates throughout the league. The single back sets you see all throughout the league, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that. The Steelers offense that won them a Super Bowl 2 years ago, and has them at 3-0 this year, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that. The Trips formations that the aforementioned Steelers and defending champion Colts use, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that. The multiple (2-3) tight end sets that arguably the two best teams in the NFL today (Cowboys and Patriots) use, you can thank Joe Gibbs for that. These are all Joe Gibbs innovations. He's one of the most creative coaches the NFL has seen in the last 30 years and his impact is felt throughout the league. So why do people insist his way won't work in today's NFL? And I know it hasn't at a consisent level so far for the Redskins. But it does for others. Why is that? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

09-26-2007, 11:49 AM	#2
Takeuon Impact Rookie Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 573	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? Is it that the offense as a whole in the league over the last ten years has just evolved past what "used" to work for him? I'm not exactly sure myself. But what I hear most often is basically what you heard....the game has become quicker and the play calling has "passed him by" I call BS on that theory...Gibbs is smart enough to understand this and mix it up. Think he doesnt spend HOURS watching CURRENT game film!?? But somethings missing :o( My opinion is he may need a General Manager to help alleviate personell issues and allow him to focus more on game plan. Agree, disagree?? No question that the (2-3) tight end is what I will probably most remember him contributing to todays current offense. __________________ #21 Will always be missed. Gone but not forgotten

09-26-2007, 12:02 PM	#3
EARTHQUAKE2689 You did WHAT?!? Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: In The Kitchen With Dyna. Age: 35 Posts: 14,143	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? i like kool-aid __________________ https://open.spotify.com/artist/1NG9zNxqMP8cYNP72QqUQT Shameless self-promotion. It is what it is.

09-26-2007, 12:06 PM	#4
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 49 Posts: 1,801	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? the game of football is basically the same as it was 20 years ago. Players change, some schemes may change but the basic formula for winning has not changes. Run the ball, stop the run. If you do that, you win. Now, as far a Gibbs goes. I grew up in the era of Skins domination. which is why its hard for me to take the losing that our team has suffered for the better part of 15 years. Do i think the game has passed him by?? not really. Some of the stuff he was so successful with in the 80's and 90's just doesn't work in todays NFL. the players are stonger, faster and more aggressive. Even he admitted as much. which is why i believe he brought in Saunders, for his innovative play calling and offensive system. I dont understand how his system does not work in DC. Maybe the players just haven't bought into it, who knows. Gibbs football today may work, however offenses in this league are far more explosive (for the most part) than what they use to be. You can not sit on a 14 point lead like you use to. Teams, any team, can strike quickly. I think gibbs is an awesome motivator, guys run through walls for that guy. i do think he may need to adjust slightly to todays game. His play calling is a bit conservative. it all comes down to wins and losses. If we win, Joe Gibbs football is back and it works. if we lose, then its too conservative and it wont work. I guess its a wait and see thing right now. only 3 games into it - we shall see what the other 13 games hold.

09-26-2007, 12:45 PM	#6
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? We have an execution problem, not JG2 system prob! Nice thread SS __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

09-26-2007, 12:32 PM	#5
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,575	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? There are only so many was you can line up 11 guys and I suspect they have all been done before. Gibbs style can still win. Gibbs himself seemed to think his style couldnt still win so he brought in Saunders. Saunders has a different style from Gibbs but now that AS is here it seems like Gibbs does not want to let AS completely do what he was brought here to do. IMO, the problem is that this team has different offensive philosophies (Gibbs & Saunders) and since neither one is fully used the team is stuck with an offense that does not really know what it wants to do.

09-26-2007, 12:49 PM	#7
Longtimefan Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Germantown, Md. Posts: 4,832	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? The coach is the Carpenter, and the Carpenter is no better than his tools. Coaches do not win or lose football games, players do. Therefore I'm of the opinion more attention should be given to the assembly of players and their dedication to winning as opposed to coaching style. All coaches and systems has flaws, but the committment and dedication of players is key. I'm sure we're going to have more discussion on this very same topic as the season progresses, and espically after each loss. I look foreward to what future excuses will be when we lose a game. This never seems to be a sane place after we lose a game. I chose to abort after each loss, history has demonstrated what it's going to be like. __________________ A revolution is coming and it will be televised.

09-26-2007, 01:00 PM	#8
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 44 Posts: 12,416	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? For me to answer the question in the title of this thread, someone will have to define for me what "work" means. In 2005 we made the playoffs and went 10-6. Did Gibbs football not "work" that year? Is something "working" defined as winning a Superbowl and that's it? I mean, last year we were 4th in the league in rushing offense. Seems like whatever football it was (Gibbs football or Saunders football) it worked - except for the fact that we didn't have much of a QB. What didn't work was Gregg Williams football. Did Gibbs football not work against the Dolphins and the Eagles this year? Did it not work for the first half against the Giants? Really, of the 12 quarters of football we've played this year, hasn't Gibbs football worked for most of them? The other thing I'm going to say is that the Salary Cap Era forces you to adapt your roster and transform your team a little more slowly. With the absolute mess that Spurrier left this team in, for Gibbs to get us to 10-6 and to the playoffs in his second year, is probably one of the greatest coaching accomplishments of his illustrious career. I'll admit, last year he had a down year, mainly attributable to his defense. But the jury's still out on this year folks. I think Gibbs football is "working" as we speak. __________________ God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.

09-26-2007, 01:04 PM	#9
skins268 Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 111	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? I totally disagree with this because granted,running the ball on 2 straight downs might not have been the best decision,But,on 2nd down we ran a quick screen and being that close to the endzone everyone knows that running a screen or short pass it has to be done fast and seeing that the 2nd down short pass failed because of a mad rush no way was he going to have Campbell throw a Pick that close and Kill JC's confidence and the team hopes-because a INT deflates everything soo fast_}{_so in conclusion we ran the same play that most of the league would have Ran._Go Skins_ and lets get ready for the Bye! __________________ Rest in peace Sean God Bless you,Walk with God Now.

09-26-2007, 01:13 PM	#10
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? I think this thread alone speaks to the frustration of the fan base and the division we've seen here on Warpath for the past three years, and more recently Sunday's lost. First of all, let's take a look at some criticisms of other coaches around the league. Now whether they're true or not, there are probably enough trends and evidence out there to support these to some degree, if not entirely. For instance, if I say *Tom Coughlin, immediately you think something along the lines of hard nosed, disciplinarian, inflexible, old school, or cranky. You also get the impression that he alienates his players. If say Bill Belichick. Again, you think genius, winner, asshole (perhaps), cheater, or douche bag. But you rarely, if ever, think loser, too conservative, no fire, or "behind the times" when Belichick's name is mentioned. One more: And this isn't really a criticism, but just to give you an idea of what image pops in your head: Herm Edwards.* Now with Herm you never get the impression that he's the greatest head coach in the world, but you do get the feeling he's a "player's coach" or a "motivator"....a good man. We know this and the guy has never coached one day in D.C. And this brings me to Joe Gibbs and, specifically Joe Gibbs football. To be honest with you, I'm not sure what to quite make of his first three, going on four years here. To be frank, that in and of itself is a little troubling. Not one of us can quite put our finger on his style this time around and how his brand of coaching affects the team's psyche. We know what we hear in the pressers and interviews and the coaches round table, but what have we really hung our hat on in three years? I don't think Joe Gibbs football only consists of x's and o's, but his locker room presence, his half-time genius, his ability to get one or two great games out of a nobody free agent that could be released the following season. Joe Gibbs football is also about his staff being on the same page and a group of core Skins to rally the troops. (I'll get to that in a minute.) Also, and this is just my general observation, I get the impression that while the current Redskins have great admiration and respect for Gibbs, I rarely hear them say, coach said this or coach said that. Or coach gave us an ear full after yesterday's lost. It's not so much in what they say, it's what they don't say. I know these are grown men, and professionals at that, but it's the absence of what hasn't been said that sticks out to me. See Joe Gibbs currenly has a bunch of great athletes that play the game of football, whereas before he had good football players (core Skins) that played great football. That's the major difference between Gibbs I and Gibbs II.

09-26-2007, 01:31 PM	#12
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? Again, I want to reiterate and further drive my point home about Joe Gibbs football. Joe Gibbs football is also about Joe Gibbs football players. In my mind, the two are not separate. He needs his guys to play his brand of football. So, no it's not just about x's an o's, and it's not entirely about the salary cap either. If I gave you a box with Betty Crocker written on the front and gave you all the neccessary ingredients, and tasked you with baking a cake, could you do it? Probably so. But to achieve max results, you need a damn oven don't you? I think Gibbs has the right formula for winning, he has the right ingredients, but the temparture just 'aint right! And you can't manufacture baking temperature. Either you got it or you don't. And therein lies the mystery. I believe I just answered Q3.

09-26-2007, 01:44 PM	#15
gibbsisgod Playmaker Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: 129 W 81st street Age: 45 Posts: 3,503	Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins? JG football works, just not the same gameplan every week. IMO, different Teams require different offensive approaches. I still think if we had taken the reins off of JC the outcome would have been quite different. I love JG and don't like to question him on much. he knows more than me or anybody else on the site but I would like to see a more explosive offense. Not just the same old shit, get up by 7 or 10 and then just sit on it. This isn't the team of the 80's and 90's where we had by far the most talent on the feild almost every week. We need to be more creative.

Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

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