I Just Don't Get it!

Brute44 · 10-31-2006, 02:02 AM

If you look at the Redskins coaching Staff do you feel like there's something a little odd with it? First of all, why are there four coaches with Head Coach assigned to their title? Of course Gibbs is the Head Coach but why are Saunders, Williams and Bugel also mentioned as such? I always knew about the titles given to these coaches in the past but never really thought about it. After looking at it for awhile, I decided to look at what I consider the four best teams in the league right now and how their coaches are set up and also their titles. The Colts, Patriots, Bears, and Giants. While looking at these other teams closely and painfully, I notice one thing, there are only one additional coach on each team with the title Assistant Head Coach followed by what position they actually do coach. The Giants don't have anyone with the title Assistant Head Coach. Also, there are no other teams with more than one coach that controls the offense. The Redskins have four, maybe even five if you consider Gibbs aswell. I also notice that Bugel is not listed as the offensive line coach and Williams is listed as Assistant Head Coach Defense and Blache is the Defensive Coordinator/D Line. Saunders is listed as Associate Head Coach offense. So I guess Saunders is the number two guy when it comes down to the the coaches? Who's calling the plays on offense? We're all told its Saunders but why then is Breaux listed as the offensive coordinator. And the same thing applies to the defense with Williams and Blache? I guess I never really noticed it before. Does anybody here think that this is helping or hurting the command structure of this team and how the players see it, or do they even know or care about it?
To me, I think it diminishes Gibbs authority over the players and also the coaches. You can't have more than one captain at the helm and one person calling plays at a time. On offense, does Gibbs have four people talking to him at a time? Could this team have good players, that can win it all but at the same time have a coaching staff the can't communicate properly and agree on a basic game plan. I guess what I'm asking is, can it be that the coaches are limiting what this team can do?
Lastly, with all the recent acquisitions made to the team and all the cash assigned to it, I was wondering if Gibbs was totally responsible for it. So I did a search for Vinny Cerrato on the web and came across this link. Very interesting Q and A with Cerrato about how the team goes about signing players in the off season. If this is how the team is run then no wonder the team is paying soooo much for players that should be payed way less. Snyder controls the amounts being paid out every year. So essentially the entire payroll is controlled by a guy that doesn't know Jack Shit about what he's even doing. I guess the coaches talk to him before hand about what the player can and can't do but ultimately, the price tag is up to Snyder. WTF!!!
I just hope somehow and someway that THE HEAD COACH, Joe Gibbs can turn this thing around and quick. Because I still believe he can and will if ALLOWED.

MTK · 10-31-2006, 09:39 AM

The titles are just that, titles. They have nothing to do with the structure. Williams is still the defensive coordinator even though his title does not reflect that.

It's simple. When a team tries to hire away a coach from another team, they have to offer them the same or a better position. Therefore, in order to keep from teams stealing away the Skins coaches, they give them these cleverly worded titles that really are meaningless, but they are designed to keep from teams trying to snatch away Williams as their defensive coordinator for example.

The only way a team could steal him is if they made him their head coach.

EXoffender · 10-31-2006, 09:40 AM

Of course we have too many coaches and thier titles probably have more to do with thier salaries than thier responsibilities. Whether any of theses assistants become the hier to Gibbs, they will have to take a stand against building the team through free agency. It just doesn't pay off in the long term.

SmootSmack · 10-31-2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

The titles are just that, titles. They have nothing to do with the structure. Williams is still the defensive coordinator even though his title does not reflect that.

It's simple. When a team tries to hire away a coach from another team, they have to offer them the same or a better position. Therefore, in order to keep from teams stealing away the Skins coaches, they give them these cleverly worded titles that really are meaningless, but they are designed to keep from teams trying to snatch away Williams as their defensive coordinator for example.

The only way a team could steal him is if they made him their head coach.

Well put. Also, I don't understand the complaint about the payroll being controlled by Snyder. He is, after all, the owner of the organization. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that every owner determines how much is paid to each person in the entire organization

VTSkins897 · 10-31-2006, 05:41 PM

yeah just titles...

i think everyone knows that AS is the OC and GW is the DC. i don't think it really has an effect on the hiring unless the coaches are just fools which i don't think they are.

Brute44 · 10-31-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Well put. Also, I don't understand the complaint about the payroll being controlled by Snyder. He is, after all, the owner of the organization. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that every owner determines how much is paid to each person in the entire organization

My point was Snyder deals directly with the players agents (read the link from ES above). Now I don't know how many owners do that in this league. That is usually done through the GM of the team. I just think it's funny how we get these free agents and pay them so much money and it is killing any kind of future for the Skins. I thought it was up to Gibbs to deal with the players agents and work out a salary. I don't think Adam Archuleta would have gotten 8 Mill this year from anyone else or Andre Carter making 6 Mill or EL with his 8 Mill would have either. This has been going on for years. Before Gibbs even came back.

SmootSmack · 10-31-2006, 08:40 PM

From what I've heard most if not all owners deal with the agents, but later in the process usually. Snyder is involved earlier in the process so as not to delay the negotiation too far behind negotiations that player may have with some other potential team.

jsarno · 10-31-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

It's simple. When a team tries to hire away a coach from another team, they have to offer them the same or a better position. Therefore, in order to keep from teams stealing away the Skins coaches, they give them these cleverly worded titles that really are meaningless, but they are designed to keep from teams trying to snatch away Williams as their defensive coordinator for example.

The only way a team could steal him is if they made him their head coach.

Aahhhh, it's amazing what a madden football game can teach us

FRPLG · 11-01-2006, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brute44

My point was Snyder deals directly with the players agents (read the link from ES above). Now I don't know how many owners do that in this league. That is usually done through the GM of the team. I just think it's funny how we get these free agents and pay them so much money and it is killing any kind of future for the Skins. I thought it was up to Gibbs to deal with the players agents and work out a salary. I don't think Adam Archuleta would have gotten 8 Mill this year from anyone else or Andre Carter making 6 Mill or EL with his 8 Mill would have either. This has been going on for years. Before Gibbs even came back.

Who cares if he deals with the agents? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? What we pay our coaches and players has nothing to do with our play on the field. This team clearly has attempted to be smart in free agency and hasn't really been tied up by salaries. I don't think anyone can say right now we are losing simply because we have paid too much money for bad players. They can maybe say we just have bad players but money has zero to do with it. We dont have any "bad" players simply because we couldn't afford anyone better. Our bad players have either aged, gotten hurt or under-performed. Every guy playing for us was chosen to do so. Snyder does the deals for the players the coaches want. Arch didn't get 8 mil because we couldn't afford the better 9 mil player. He got 8 because they wanted him and Snyder made it happen. We are not losing because of anything Snyder has done.

dmek25 · 11-01-2006, 07:36 AM

I'm not sure what the point of this is, but coaches don't forget how to coach. so we probably need to look elsewhere for our problem. its more like evaluating talent could be the culprit

The Zimmermans · 11-01-2006, 10:29 AM

You cannot ignore the wasted resources. Signing these free agents for so much money prevents us from being able to sign talent. If we hadnt spent so much on Arch and Carter, we could have found better guys to fill in for our injured players. We leave no room for injuries or mishaps during the season. Do we really expect everyone to stay healthy all year???? I also don't understand why a drafted rookie is sitting the bench (mcintosh), while a talentless veteran (Holdman) rotts on the field. Why don't we ever do the obvious??????

hesscl34 · 11-01-2006, 11:46 AM

I really don't understand why everyone doesn’t get it? It's really not that hard to figure out. INJURIES have plagued the D, and without a good D, you will rarely win a game. I don't think our O has done that poorly considering we have a brand new Offensive Coordinator and 700 page play book. I DON’T think it is all Brunell’s fault, I just think that’s the easy answer. I think the O has put considerable points on the board. Our Secondary BLOWS and has handed games to teams that NEVER should have beat us. When we tied up with the Titans we just let them march right back down the field and make a filed goal. Just like that. Same with the Jags...we were lucky to beat them (thank you O). This has all been about our D, in my opinion. Our O is strong enough to win games, for sure. Of course now we are dealing with our O being hurt going into Dallas, which is just awful. HOWEVER, Springs AND Rogers are back now on our D. At this point, anything can happen, but I really don’t think this season is that hard to grasp. It's disappointing for sure, but it’s reality. You have a banged up D, and new guys, and your moving people around and putting them places they aren't their strongest = losing games. The coaches are trying their hardest to make things happen THIS season.

That Guy · 11-01-2006, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesscl34

I really don't understand why everyone doesn’t get it? It's really not that hard to figure out. INJURIES have plagued the D, and without a good D, you will rarely win a game.

if we had better depth, it wouldn't be such a big deal. but we don't have a good FO setup, and whoever is in charge of aquisitions isn't good in picking talent OR addressing very obvious needs (punter, kicker, b depth, etc).

Brute44 · 11-01-2006, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Who cares if he deals with the agents? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? What we pay our coaches and players has nothing to do with our play on the field. This team clearly has attempted to be smart in free agency and hasn't really been tied up by salaries. I don't think anyone can say right now we are losing simply because we have paid too much money for bad players. They can maybe say we just have bad players but money has zero to do with it. We dont have any "bad" players simply because we couldn't afford anyone better. Our bad players have either aged, gotten hurt or under-performed. Every guy playing for us was chosen to do so. Snyder does the deals for the players the coaches want. Arch didn't get 8 mil because we couldn't afford the better 9 mil player. He got 8 because they wanted him and Snyder made it happen. We are not losing because of anything Snyder has done.

First of all, I never said we have BAD players just overpaid players. If you think that overpaying players has nothing to do with this teams win loss record then you're sorely mistaken. We have absolutely no depth on D and no way to fix the problem this season. This is because we spent too much for a few superstars than addressing the real problem, depth. Last year we make the playoffs and we really don't change a whole lot in the off season. What a coincidence.

10-31-2006, 02:02 AM	#1
Brute44 Camp Scrub Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 62	I Just Don't Get it! If you look at the Redskins coaching Staff do you feel like there's something a little odd with it? First of all, why are there four coaches with Head Coach assigned to their title? Of course Gibbs is the Head Coach but why are Saunders, Williams and Bugel also mentioned as such? I always knew about the titles given to these coaches in the past but never really thought about it. After looking at it for awhile, I decided to look at what I consider the four best teams in the league right now and how their coaches are set up and also their titles. The Colts, Patriots, Bears, and Giants. While looking at these other teams closely and painfully, I notice one thing, there are only one additional coach on each team with the title Assistant Head Coach followed by what position they actually do coach. The Giants don't have anyone with the title Assistant Head Coach. Also, there are no other teams with more than one coach that controls the offense. The Redskins have four, maybe even five if you consider Gibbs aswell. I also notice that Bugel is not listed as the offensive line coach and Williams is listed as Assistant Head Coach Defense and Blache is the Defensive Coordinator/D Line. Saunders is listed as Associate Head Coach offense. So I guess Saunders is the number two guy when it comes down to the the coaches? Who's calling the plays on offense? We're all told its Saunders but why then is Breaux listed as the offensive coordinator. And the same thing applies to the defense with Williams and Blache? I guess I never really noticed it before. Does anybody here think that this is helping or hurting the command structure of this team and how the players see it, or do they even know or care about it? To me, I think it diminishes Gibbs authority over the players and also the coaches. You can't have more than one captain at the helm and one person calling plays at a time. On offense, does Gibbs have four people talking to him at a time? Could this team have good players, that can win it all but at the same time have a coaching staff the can't communicate properly and agree on a basic game plan. I guess what I'm asking is, can it be that the coaches are limiting what this team can do? Lastly, with all the recent acquisitions made to the team and all the cash assigned to it, I was wondering if Gibbs was totally responsible for it. So I did a search for Vinny Cerrato on the web and came across this link. Very interesting Q and A with Cerrato about how the team goes about signing players in the off season. If this is how the team is run then no wonder the team is paying soooo much for players that should be payed way less. Snyder controls the amounts being paid out every year. So essentially the entire payroll is controlled by a guy that doesn't know Jack Shit about what he's even doing. I guess the coaches talk to him before hand about what the player can and can't do but ultimately, the price tag is up to Snyder. WTF!!! I just hope somehow and someway that THE HEAD COACH, Joe Gibbs can turn this thing around and quick. Because I still believe he can and will if ALLOWED.

10-31-2006, 09:39 AM	#2
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	Re: I Just Don't Get it! The titles are just that, titles. They have nothing to do with the structure. Williams is still the defensive coordinator even though his title does not reflect that. It's simple. When a team tries to hire away a coach from another team, they have to offer them the same or a better position. Therefore, in order to keep from teams stealing away the Skins coaches, they give them these cleverly worded titles that really are meaningless, but they are designed to keep from teams trying to snatch away Williams as their defensive coordinator for example. The only way a team could steal him is if they made him their head coach. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

10-31-2006, 09:40 AM	#3
EXoffender The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norfolk, Va Posts: 1,046	Re: I Just Don't Get it! Of course we have too many coaches and thier titles probably have more to do with thier salaries than thier responsibilities. Whether any of theses assistants become the hier to Gibbs, they will have to take a stand against building the team through free agency. It just doesn't pay off in the long term.

10-31-2006, 05:41 PM	#5
VTSkins897 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 41 Posts: 890	Re: I Just Don't Get it! yeah just titles... i think everyone knows that AS is the OC and GW is the DC. i don't think it really has an effect on the hiring unless the coaches are just fools which i don't think they are.

10-31-2006, 08:40 PM	#7
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: I Just Don't Get it! From what I've heard most if not all owners deal with the agents, but later in the process usually. Snyder is involved earlier in the process so as not to delay the negotiation too far behind negotiations that player may have with some other potential team. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

11-01-2006, 07:36 AM	#10
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 63 Posts: 10,672	Re: I Just Don't Get it! I'm not sure what the point of this is, but coaches don't forget how to coach. so we probably need to look elsewhere for our problem. its more like evaluating talent could be the culprit __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

11-01-2006, 10:29 AM	#11
The Zimmermans Impact Rookie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Woodley Park, Washington DC Age: 40 Posts: 937	Re: I Just Don't Get it! You cannot ignore the wasted resources. Signing these free agents for so much money prevents us from being able to sign talent. If we hadnt spent so much on Arch and Carter, we could have found better guys to fill in for our injured players. We leave no room for injuries or mishaps during the season. Do we really expect everyone to stay healthy all year???? I also don't understand why a drafted rookie is sitting the bench (mcintosh), while a talentless veteran (Holdman) rotts on the field. Why don't we ever do the obvious?????? __________________ Dan Snyder is a Cancer, Joe Gibbs is the Cure

11-01-2006, 11:46 AM	#12
hesscl34 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,782	Re: I Just Don't Get it! I really don't understand why everyone doesn’t get it? It's really not that hard to figure out. INJURIES have plagued the D, and without a good D, you will rarely win a game. I don't think our O has done that poorly considering we have a brand new Offensive Coordinator and 700 page play book. I DON’T think it is all Brunell’s fault, I just think that’s the easy answer. I think the O has put considerable points on the board. Our Secondary BLOWS and has handed games to teams that NEVER should have beat us. When we tied up with the Titans we just let them march right back down the field and make a filed goal. Just like that. Same with the Jags...we were lucky to beat them (thank you O). This has all been about our D, in my opinion. Our O is strong enough to win games, for sure. Of course now we are dealing with our O being hurt going into Dallas, which is just awful. HOWEVER, Springs AND Rogers are back now on our D. At this point, anything can happen, but I really don’t think this season is that hard to grasp. It's disappointing for sure, but it’s reality. You have a banged up D, and new guys, and your moving people around and putting them places they aren't their strongest = losing games. The coaches are trying their hardest to make things happen THIS season.

I Just Don't Get it!

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