Top Corner or Star Back: Bailey Makes It Clear

SmootSmack · 06-09-2004, 01:33 AM

At first I was going to put this in the News Wire forum but thought this article might be good for some discussion:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/7403302

itvnetop · 06-09-2004, 01:44 AM

I think the trade was good for both teams- it addressed weaknesses both had... considering we were gonna lose champ anyway, it's a coup that we were able to nab portis.

Redskins8588 · 06-09-2004, 04:19 AM

I agree that it was a good trade for both teams, but if corner is such a needed position, then why didn't Denver give us Portis and there 2nd round pick?

MTK · 06-09-2004, 09:56 AM

How about we wait til the end of the season to see which player had the bigger impact before we judge this trade.

I think the trade will work out fine for both teams.

cpayne5 · 06-09-2004, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think the trade will work out fine for both teams.

Couldn't agree more.

Norman_Einstein · 06-09-2004, 10:25 AM

"I think Champ is the best corner in the game," said one NFC personnel director. "But I'd go with the running back. I think you can control the game with a good back. Joe Gibbs will do that in Washington with Portis. So I give the edge to the back."

A running back can control the game because he has the ball. All you have to do is not throw towards the shutdown corner, and you have taken him out of the game (granted that is the objective)...but the bottom line is that Champ would have walked anyway. So if we said no to Denver about the 2nd round pick, they would have just got him via F/A. And we would have gotten nothing.

skins009 · 06-09-2004, 11:16 AM

I still think it was a stupid trade on our part. A great cover corner is much harder to find than a good running back. Plus we throw in a second rounder which just makes the trade that much more stupid. We could have gotten a quality d-linemen with that pick.

Dave Butz Baby! · 06-09-2004, 11:30 AM

I disagree with the assessment that we "threw in" a second round pick. It sees to me that we essentially traded a second round for Portis. Bailey had one foot out the door. When we franchised him, there was no indication whatsoever from him that he would ever sign the tender or play a single down this season for us. There were grumblings that he was more than willing to ignore the tender and sit out the year to reemerge next year as a free agent.

To get Portis for a second round pick plus a player who more than likely would not have ever played another down for us again (and I don't care who it is at that point) is a coup. Especially a player who did not want to be here anymore.

We got the best of that trade, hands down.

RedskinRat · 06-09-2004, 01:01 PM

Agree with Dave Butz, he was gone regardless so they salvaged the best deal possible. I think that we'll see him struggle in Denver.

Portis will thrive in DC and everyone will forget about the 2nd round pick.

SmootSmack · 06-09-2004, 02:18 PM

Wasn't the second round pick necessary to make the salaries work? Anyway, no knock on Champ but in the grand scheme of things I think we did ok. We got a stud running back, replaced Champ with Shawn Springs (let's see if he can revert to the Springs of a couple of years ago) and besides Springs won't have to do as much as Champ had to if the rest of the defense steps up, which I think they will.

Don't want to be a conspiracy theorist here, but I might go so far as to say if not for Dan Snyder, people wouldn't be so quick to judge this trade. But it's another way to attack him for being too hasty.

Only time will tell what happens. I think the Broncos will love having Champ there but we won't be shedding any tears of sadness here in DC, only in tears of joy when Gibbs is holding the Lombardi trophy in February.

bedlamVR · 06-10-2004, 06:03 AM

The other thing is our secondary has been boosted by the selection of Taylor. There may be aslight drop off but Baily is not going to be a huge noticable diffierence. Look at the Eagles they have dropped both starting CB's so just how much is a CB worth?

joecrisp · 06-10-2004, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

Wasn't the second round pick necessary to make the salaries work?

That was definitely part of it. Bailey had no contract, and it was going to take beaucoup bucks to sign him. Portis, on the other hand, had a very reasonable contract. Now, of course, Snyder signed Portis to a more lucrative deal after the fact, but that had no bearing on the deal he had to make with Denver to acquire Portis in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

Don't want to be a conspiracy theorist here, but I might go so far as to say if not for Dan Snyder, people wouldn't be so quick to judge this trade. But it's another way to attack him for being too hasty.

I don't think that's such a far-fetched theory, my friend. The Snyder Haters love to point to this deal as proof positive that Snyder has his head up his ass.

I think Dave Butz Baby made a great point: Snyder didn't throw in a second rounder just to be "splashy" or "stupid"-- he gave up what was necessary to acquire a RB of Portis' caliber. I can't stress this enough-- Bailey was not going to re-sign with Washington or play another down for the Redskins. He was, for all intents and purposes, no longer a Redskin the moment the Skins slapped the franchise tag on him. Nobody was going to surrender two first round picks for him, and the Skins couldn't afford to pay him the franchise tender anyway.

When you combine the money factor with the fact that Bailey would have walked anyway, it's clear the Redskins had to give up something in order to acquire Portis. Considering Portis was originally a second rounder, and has proven himself to be a first-round talent, I don't think giving up a second rounder for him is overpaying.

MTK · 06-10-2004, 09:30 AM

Bottom line is Snyder did what he had to do to get the deal done. I highly doubt he tossed Bailey and the 2nd rounder on the bargaining table right off the bat.

On paper maybe we gave up a little too much. But does anyone seriously regret the deal? Would anyone have not made the deal if you were in Snyder's shoes?

You have a disgruntled star CB who wants out and he already turned down a fair offer and future negotiations do not look promising. You have a new head coach who loves to run the football and one of the top young RB's in the league is being dangled in front of you. What would you have done differently?

It was a ballsy deal that alot of owners/GM's would not have made.

Big C · 06-10-2004, 10:27 AM

last year was not bailey's best year either. i remember him getting beat on several occasions for big plays.Portis is 21/22, has alrady made the pro bowl. We got the upper hand on this deal.

memphisskin · 06-10-2004, 11:44 AM

I think it's a bit misleading to say you can find a running back easier than a cover corner. I think that the top corners usually pan out better than the top running backs, probably because there is less hype. I think Fred Smoot has turned out much better than say Willie Green up in Cleveland. It's not cut and dry, and for what we are trying to do here in DC, Portis will have more effect on our team this year than Bailey would. As much as I would love to have Bailey, I remember the Tom Knight era, the simple truth is that while Denver has a system they believe they can just plug anyone into (talk about hubris) we don't have to hope here in DC. We have a back in Portis who has run for 1500 yds and scored 15 tds to begin his career. I can't wait to see Portis running wild for us.

06-09-2004, 01:33 AM	#1
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Top Corner or Star Back: Bailey Makes It Clear At first I was going to put this in the News Wire forum but thought this article might be good for some discussion: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/7403302 __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

06-09-2004, 04:19 AM	#3
Redskins8588 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ridgway, PA Age: 46 Posts: 2,519	I agree that it was a good trade for both teams, but if corner is such a needed position, then why didn't Denver give us Portis and there 2nd round pick? __________________ "I am the best at what I do, and what I do isn't very nice" - Sean Taylor

06-09-2004, 11:30 AM	#8
Dave Butz Baby! Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Reston, VA Age: 54 Posts: 450	I disagree with the assessment that we "threw in" a second round pick. It sees to me that we essentially traded a second round for Portis. Bailey had one foot out the door. When we franchised him, there was no indication whatsoever from him that he would ever sign the tender or play a single down this season for us. There were grumblings that he was more than willing to ignore the tender and sit out the year to reemerge next year as a free agent. To get Portis for a second round pick plus a player who more than likely would not have ever played another down for us again (and I don't care who it is at that point) is a coup. Especially a player who did not want to be here anymore. We got the best of that trade, hands down. __________________ Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

06-09-2004, 02:18 PM	#10
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Wasn't the second round pick necessary to make the salaries work? Anyway, no knock on Champ but in the grand scheme of things I think we did ok. We got a stud running back, replaced Champ with Shawn Springs (let's see if he can revert to the Springs of a couple of years ago) and besides Springs won't have to do as much as Champ had to if the rest of the defense steps up, which I think they will. Don't want to be a conspiracy theorist here, but I might go so far as to say if not for Dan Snyder, people wouldn't be so quick to judge this trade. But it's another way to attack him for being too hasty. Only time will tell what happens. I think the Broncos will love having Champ there but we won't be shedding any tears of sadness here in DC, only in tears of joy when Gibbs is holding the Lombardi trophy in February. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

06-09-2004, 01:44 AM	#2
itvnetop Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 47 Posts: 3,007	I think the trade was good for both teams- it addressed weaknesses both had... considering we were gonna lose champ anyway, it's a coup that we were able to nab portis.

06-09-2004, 09:56 AM	#4
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	How about we wait til the end of the season to see which player had the bigger impact before we judge this trade. I think the trade will work out fine for both teams.

06-09-2004, 10:25 AM	#6
Norman_Einstein Camp Scrub Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tampa, FL Age: 42 Posts: 15	"I think Champ is the best corner in the game," said one NFC personnel director. "But I'd go with the running back. I think you can control the game with a good back. Joe Gibbs will do that in Washington with Portis. So I give the edge to the back." A running back can control the game because he has the ball. All you have to do is not throw towards the shutdown corner, and you have taken him out of the game (granted that is the objective)...but the bottom line is that Champ would have walked anyway. So if we said no to Denver about the 2nd round pick, they would have just got him via F/A. And we would have gotten nothing.

06-09-2004, 11:16 AM	#7
skins009 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 528	I still think it was a stupid trade on our part. A great cover corner is much harder to find than a good running back. Plus we throw in a second rounder which just makes the trade that much more stupid. We could have gotten a quality d-linemen with that pick.

06-09-2004, 01:01 PM	#9
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	Agree with Dave Butz, he was gone regardless so they salvaged the best deal possible. I think that we'll see him struggle in Denver. Portis will thrive in DC and everyone will forget about the 2nd round pick.

06-10-2004, 06:03 AM	#11
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	The other thing is our secondary has been boosted by the selection of Taylor. There may be aslight drop off but Baily is not going to be a huge noticable diffierence. Look at the Eagles they have dropped both starting CB's so just how much is a CB worth?

06-10-2004, 09:30 AM	#13
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	Bottom line is Snyder did what he had to do to get the deal done. I highly doubt he tossed Bailey and the 2nd rounder on the bargaining table right off the bat. On paper maybe we gave up a little too much. But does anyone seriously regret the deal? Would anyone have not made the deal if you were in Snyder's shoes? You have a disgruntled star CB who wants out and he already turned down a fair offer and future negotiations do not look promising. You have a new head coach who loves to run the football and one of the top young RB's in the league is being dangled in front of you. What would you have done differently? It was a ballsy deal that alot of owners/GM's would not have made.

06-10-2004, 10:27 AM	#14
Big C Mr. Brightside Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 38 Posts: 4,453	last year was not bailey's best year either. i remember him getting beat on several occasions for big plays.Portis is 21/22, has alrady made the pro bowl. We got the upper hand on this deal.

06-10-2004, 11:44 AM	#15
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 53 Posts: 960	I think it's a bit misleading to say you can find a running back easier than a cover corner. I think that the top corners usually pan out better than the top running backs, probably because there is less hype. I think Fred Smoot has turned out much better than say Willie Green up in Cleveland. It's not cut and dry, and for what we are trying to do here in DC, Portis will have more effect on our team this year than Bailey would. As much as I would love to have Bailey, I remember the Tom Knight era, the simple truth is that while Denver has a system they believe they can just plug anyone into (talk about hubris) we don't have to hope here in DC. We have a back in Portis who has run for 1500 yds and scored 15 tds to begin his career. I can't wait to see Portis running wild for us.

Top Corner or Star Back: Bailey Makes It Clear

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