Problems, And Excuses!

offiss · 09-20-2006, 04:20 AM

I am beyond tired of the excuses about Brunell, injuries etc., the guy was over the hill before we traded for him and has done nothing to refute that, can he get the job done under optimum conditions? Yes, but how often does that happen? Bottom line he's a lowsey QB and Gibbs put all his faith in this guy and has refused to acknowledge his 43 mil dollar mistake, along with a second round draft pick [for a player who was about to be released before the Jag's heard Gibbs absolutly had to have him] by benching him. But this is not just another Brunell bashing thread no matter HOW MUCH I enjoy them.

I had time to breakdown the last 2 games in slow mo with my ti vo [Matty no wise cracks] and my real focus was on the O-line, in the minnesota game I noticed that it wasen't so much our O-line being overpowered but more of a blocking scheme problem, there were costant missed blocks and players double teaming 1 player and another standing around while defenders ran free to the QB. In the Cowboy game there was a little of that but a lot of guy's getting beat to the side, Jansen was costantly pushed back as well as Dockery, and the one thing you don't see from our line is defenders being pushed off the line of scrimmage. Now in the Cowboy game they constantly had 8 and 9 men in the box, I was really surprised at how little regard they had for the passing game, I also saw what I believe is part of defensive game plans for us, show Brunell a blitz and he immediatly starts running for his life regardless if they get to him or not, every throw he makes is off his back leg.

This got me to wondering watching blitz's and guy's missing blocks if maybe the game has passed Bugel by? Perhaps at this stage in his career he, as Gibbs admitted to this year cannot adjust to these new blitzkrieg type of defenses? I know the guy is a legend amoungst all skins fans but let's face it has our offensive line improved in 3 year's? I say no. Do we apparently have above average talent on the line? According to all the coaches we do, infact Gibbs said it's the strongest part of the team, so what's the problem? I really hate to say it because I really have alway's liked the guy but he may just be overwhelmed at this point in his career. Now if it's not Bugel and he's doing the best anyone could be expected with the talent that he has, then someone has to be shot for not identifying the incompetency of our linemen and making the proper changes, or at least trying to bring in better talent.

So what can we expect this week? We will crush an incompetent football team with no real pass rush other than Williams, and we will hear all about Brunell just got used to the new offense and so on, but it will be no different than last season, Brunell will play well when teams don't come near him and he has all day to throw and he knows it, as soon as we come up against a high pressure defense he will be right back where he is now. The line defiently has it's faults right now, but Brunell cannot drop back and step up into the pocket, make the quick read, and deliver the ball, and I believe that is part of the reason teams bring so many into the box, they know Brunell cannot respond to it. But in all fairness it is very difficult to get a real gauge on that from a TV you do not have a view of the entire field and what is happening to the WR's before the ball is thrown, guy's who go to the games should be able to give us a better idea of what Brunell see's downfield and who's really at fault, but I do have a tough time believing Moss, Randell, and LLoyd, along with Cooley with maybe the premier offensive genious in the game at coordinator can't get open.

Our defense on the other hand has it's problem's right now, and I do believe it's Spring's injury, with Springs in there we can free up player's to come on blitzes ala AA, who I don't believe can cover but I don't know for sure yet, I watched Carter and I have to say he can't make a routine tackle, I am starting to understand why the 9er's tried to make a LB out of him, he's overmatched by O-tackles. But probably the biggest problem standing before them right now is our offense is going to keep them on the field all day just like last season, and they also know they have to play perfect because Brunell is not going to put up many points especially if teams know we have to throw, so there is a ton of pressure on them which they shouldn't have to burden. But the least of our worries is the defense because Williams will conquer whatever problem they have right now that we can count on.

Specials? Well who'd a thunk it? Rock all the way, I would have laughed in your face if you told me Rock would return a kickoff for a TD in this lifetime or any other, he looked Mitchell esk on that return, but we still need a lot of work on our coverage team, but at least we are seeing improvement.

That Guy · 09-20-2006, 05:15 AM

well, every time i've heard people say how amazing our line or bugel is, i've been quick to point out we're clearly not top 5 (which has seemed to be the prevailing thought for 2 years) and that bugel hasn't really improved or found anyone since he got here. And during the draft, I wanted a new LG with our pick to replace dockery (and he wouldn't be rushed to start before he was ready since dock still has a year under contract).

that's water under the bridge now though, we have who we have. I'd like to see if campbell can do any better. If he really can't and shows nothing, we can always switch back i guess, but this is the closest to a gimme win as you can get...

Hog1 · 09-20-2006, 06:39 AM

There aren't to many things that cause more chaos on a team, or make a coach/francise look more foolish than to switch QB's in and out. Certainly a recipe for disaster. And................I'll answer it before it gets shot back at me. It's only two games (12% of our scheduled games), not a season. It's far from over!

backrow · 09-20-2006, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

I am beyond tired of the excuses about Brunell, injuries etc., the guy was over the hill before we traded for him and has done nothing to refute that, But this is not just another Brunell bashing thread no matter HOW MUCH I enjoy them.

I thought this was another Brunell bashing thread, and I was going to jump on the bandwagon and state emphatically that I never wanted him, wasn't thrilled with the trade for him, and I too think he throws off his back foot too much, and throws it away in order to avoid sacks. But since he saved HOF Coach Gibbs life, and is now married to Coach Gibbs, I don't see any change at QB very soon. This in spite of the huge investment that we have in JC.

Dogtag · 09-20-2006, 08:32 AM

For a non-MB basing thread, there is a lot of MB QB talk.

SmootSmack · 09-20-2006, 08:50 AM

Interesting to note though that Campbell threw it off his back foot a lot too this preseason. Am I right Schneed?

illdefined · 09-20-2006, 09:13 AM

how much further did the ball go?

MTK · 09-20-2006, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

I know the guy is a legend amoungst all skins fans but let's face it has our offensive line improved in 3 year's? I say no.

Amazing how quickly we forget what shambles the OL was in when Spurrier was here. The OL has definitely improved since then, without question.

They're not playing well now but I wouldn't expect that to last very much longer.

Hog1 · 09-20-2006, 09:33 AM

On that note MK, I am surprised, shocked at the..................."Redskin faithful" who have already abandoned ship, tossed the season, tossed Joe, Al, MB, and the list goes on. It was just a few months ago, these same........fans could be heard with shouts of joy at the Skins success with this same cast of..............stars. Interesting

MTK · 09-20-2006, 09:43 AM

I broke down the first half of the game last night with my DVR on SUPER SLO MO and I even broke out my armchair clipboard and charted the plays. I even put on my PS2 headset just so I could feel even more like a wannabe loser. Afterwards I put all the info into a spreadsheet and this is what I found.

In the first half alone I noted 7 instances where one defender or more was running free to the QB without being blocked at all. I don't care what QB you're talking about, that kind of pressure is going to disrupt an offense.

I need to finish breaking down the 2nd half tonight, but I'm trying to find the SUPER DUPER SLO MO button so I can break it down frame by frame. I'll then chart those results in a pie chart and divide everything by pi.

724Skinsfan · 09-20-2006, 09:50 AM

I shall suspend all activities until these results are in, Matty.

TheMalcolmConnection · 09-20-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'll then chart those results in a pie chart and divide everything by pi.

Mmmm. Pie. Question 3.

Hog1 · 09-20-2006, 10:00 AM

Safety tip:
Super Duper Slow mode is oft referred to as "Mississippi mode" or in Mississippi as Arkansas mode, or Clinton mode. Check manufacturers listing for other loser data.
Residents of Mississippi, Arkansas notwithstanding. Sorry Hillary

12thMan · 09-20-2006, 10:13 AM

I'd like to chime in for a second on the throwing off the back foot thing....I've watched McNabb complete countless amazing throws off his back foot. As well as...hate to say it, Eli Manning. I'm just not sure how much merit that really has in the NFL.

I know it's a mechanical no-no, but I think it really boils down to the savvy and athletism of the quarterback.

#56fanatic · 09-20-2006, 10:28 AM

I think the problem with our O line is simple. It is not a finess line, that likes to do zone blocking and stretch plays, draws. They are a smash mouth, attack the d-line and LB's, run it down your throat line. Look at how bad they did when spurrier was here with that offense. Look at how they improved last year when we ran the ball right at the defense. They knew we were going to run, but we still piled up 150 again in that stretch. I think we need to nix this finess crap and line up and smack houston in the mouth. Go back to Redskin football. Joe Gibbs and Co. know where their bread and butter is and its those big guys up front. Jansen told the coaches last year, let us take you to playoffs, allow us to run the ball at the defense, no around the defense. We have big strong guys that are best at run blocking. Dockery is a good LG. He is big, strong and move for a guy his size. It would be a mistake to put someone else in the game and take him out. When we attack the line of scrimmage with Thomas and Dock pulling, no one can stop that!! Lets get back to REDSKIN FOOTBALL

09-20-2006, 04:20 AM	#1
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	Problems, And Excuses! I am beyond tired of the excuses about Brunell, injuries etc., the guy was over the hill before we traded for him and has done nothing to refute that, can he get the job done under optimum conditions? Yes, but how often does that happen? Bottom line he's a lowsey QB and Gibbs put all his faith in this guy and has refused to acknowledge his 43 mil dollar mistake, along with a second round draft pick [for a player who was about to be released before the Jag's heard Gibbs absolutly had to have him] by benching him. But this is not just another Brunell bashing thread no matter HOW MUCH I enjoy them. I had time to breakdown the last 2 games in slow mo with my ti vo [Matty no wise cracks] and my real focus was on the O-line, in the minnesota game I noticed that it wasen't so much our O-line being overpowered but more of a blocking scheme problem, there were costant missed blocks and players double teaming 1 player and another standing around while defenders ran free to the QB. In the Cowboy game there was a little of that but a lot of guy's getting beat to the side, Jansen was costantly pushed back as well as Dockery, and the one thing you don't see from our line is defenders being pushed off the line of scrimmage. Now in the Cowboy game they constantly had 8 and 9 men in the box, I was really surprised at how little regard they had for the passing game, I also saw what I believe is part of defensive game plans for us, show Brunell a blitz and he immediatly starts running for his life regardless if they get to him or not, every throw he makes is off his back leg. This got me to wondering watching blitz's and guy's missing blocks if maybe the game has passed Bugel by? Perhaps at this stage in his career he, as Gibbs admitted to this year cannot adjust to these new blitzkrieg type of defenses? I know the guy is a legend amoungst all skins fans but let's face it has our offensive line improved in 3 year's? I say no. Do we apparently have above average talent on the line? According to all the coaches we do, infact Gibbs said it's the strongest part of the team, so what's the problem? I really hate to say it because I really have alway's liked the guy but he may just be overwhelmed at this point in his career. Now if it's not Bugel and he's doing the best anyone could be expected with the talent that he has, then someone has to be shot for not identifying the incompetency of our linemen and making the proper changes, or at least trying to bring in better talent. So what can we expect this week? We will crush an incompetent football team with no real pass rush other than Williams, and we will hear all about Brunell just got used to the new offense and so on, but it will be no different than last season, Brunell will play well when teams don't come near him and he has all day to throw and he knows it, as soon as we come up against a high pressure defense he will be right back where he is now. The line defiently has it's faults right now, but Brunell cannot drop back and step up into the pocket, make the quick read, and deliver the ball, and I believe that is part of the reason teams bring so many into the box, they know Brunell cannot respond to it. But in all fairness it is very difficult to get a real gauge on that from a TV you do not have a view of the entire field and what is happening to the WR's before the ball is thrown, guy's who go to the games should be able to give us a better idea of what Brunell see's downfield and who's really at fault, but I do have a tough time believing Moss, Randell, and LLoyd, along with Cooley with maybe the premier offensive genious in the game at coordinator can't get open. Our defense on the other hand has it's problem's right now, and I do believe it's Spring's injury, with Springs in there we can free up player's to come on blitzes ala AA, who I don't believe can cover but I don't know for sure yet, I watched Carter and I have to say he can't make a routine tackle, I am starting to understand why the 9er's tried to make a LB out of him, he's overmatched by O-tackles. But probably the biggest problem standing before them right now is our offense is going to keep them on the field all day just like last season, and they also know they have to play perfect because Brunell is not going to put up many points especially if teams know we have to throw, so there is a ton of pressure on them which they shouldn't have to burden. But the least of our worries is the defense because Williams will conquer whatever problem they have right now that we can count on. Specials? Well who'd a thunk it? Rock all the way, I would have laughed in your face if you told me Rock would return a kickoff for a TD in this lifetime or any other, he looked Mitchell esk on that return, but we still need a lot of work on our coverage team, but at least we are seeing improvement.

09-20-2006, 05:15 AM	#2
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	Re: Problems, And Excuses! well, every time i've heard people say how amazing our line or bugel is, i've been quick to point out we're clearly not top 5 (which has seemed to be the prevailing thought for 2 years) and that bugel hasn't really improved or found anyone since he got here. And during the draft, I wanted a new LG with our pick to replace dockery (and he wouldn't be rushed to start before he was ready since dock still has a year under contract). that's water under the bridge now though, we have who we have. I'd like to see if campbell can do any better. If he really can't and shows nothing, we can always switch back i guess, but this is the closest to a gimme win as you can get...

09-20-2006, 06:39 AM	#3
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: Problems, And Excuses! There aren't to many things that cause more chaos on a team, or make a coach/francise look more foolish than to switch QB's in and out. Certainly a recipe for disaster. And................I'll answer it before it gets shot back at me. It's only two games (12% of our scheduled games), not a season. It's far from over! __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

09-20-2006, 08:50 AM	#6
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: Problems, And Excuses! Interesting to note though that Campbell threw it off his back foot a lot too this preseason. Am I right Schneed? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

09-20-2006, 09:13 AM	#7
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 48 Posts: 2,631	Re: Problems, And Excuses! how much further did the ball go? __________________ a fan. not a cheerleader.

09-20-2006, 08:32 AM	#5
Dogtag Special Teams Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Dumfries, VA Age: 71 Posts: 241	Re: Problems, And Excuses! For a non-MB basing thread, there is a lot of MB QB talk.

09-20-2006, 09:33 AM	#9
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: Problems, And Excuses! On that note MK, I am surprised, shocked at the..................."Redskin faithful" who have already abandoned ship, tossed the season, tossed Joe, Al, MB, and the list goes on. It was just a few months ago, these same........fans could be heard with shouts of joy at the Skins success with this same cast of..............stars. Interesting __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

09-20-2006, 09:43 AM	#10
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	Re: Problems, And Excuses! I broke down the first half of the game last night with my DVR on SUPER SLO MO and I even broke out my armchair clipboard and charted the plays. I even put on my PS2 headset just so I could feel even more like a wannabe loser. Afterwards I put all the info into a spreadsheet and this is what I found. In the first half alone I noted 7 instances where one defender or more was running free to the QB without being blocked at all. I don't care what QB you're talking about, that kind of pressure is going to disrupt an offense. I need to finish breaking down the 2nd half tonight, but I'm trying to find the SUPER DUPER SLO MO button so I can break it down frame by frame. I'll then chart those results in a pie chart and divide everything by pi. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

09-20-2006, 09:50 AM	#11
724Skinsfan Playmaker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 3,508	Re: Problems, And Excuses! I shall suspend all activities until these results are in, Matty. __________________ "I hope I'm getting better. I hope you haven't seen my best." - Jim Zorn

09-20-2006, 10:00 AM	#13
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: Problems, And Excuses! Safety tip: Super Duper Slow mode is oft referred to as "Mississippi mode" or in Mississippi as Arkansas mode, or Clinton mode. Check manufacturers listing for other loser data. Residents of Mississippi, Arkansas notwithstanding. Sorry Hillary __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

09-20-2006, 10:13 AM	#14
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: Problems, And Excuses! I'd like to chime in for a second on the throwing off the back foot thing....I've watched McNabb complete countless amazing throws off his back foot. As well as...hate to say it, Eli Manning. I'm just not sure how much merit that really has in the NFL. I know it's a mechanical no-no, but I think it really boils down to the savvy and athletism of the quarterback.

09-20-2006, 10:28 AM	#15
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: Problems, And Excuses! I think the problem with our O line is simple. It is not a finess line, that likes to do zone blocking and stretch plays, draws. They are a smash mouth, attack the d-line and LB's, run it down your throat line. Look at how bad they did when spurrier was here with that offense. Look at how they improved last year when we ran the ball right at the defense. They knew we were going to run, but we still piled up 150 again in that stretch. I think we need to nix this finess crap and line up and smack houston in the mouth. Go back to Redskin football. Joe Gibbs and Co. know where their bread and butter is and its those big guys up front. Jansen told the coaches last year, let us take you to playoffs, allow us to run the ball at the defense, no around the defense. We have big strong guys that are best at run blocking. Dockery is a good LG. He is big, strong and move for a guy his size. It would be a mistake to put someone else in the game and take him out. When we attack the line of scrimmage with Thomas and Dock pulling, no one can stop that!! Lets get back to REDSKIN FOOTBALL

Problems, And Excuses!

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