Are the NY Giants making good decisions?

Shane · 05-18-2004, 08:53 PM

Shane · 05-18-2004, 08:59 PM

Somehow the headline of the post got posted before I could write anything.
I am wondering if the Giants have made a good decision in hiring taskmaster Tom Coughlin. Is Coach Coughlin out of step with the times? It is interesting that some of the Giants have already gotten so concerned that they have filed a grievance against Coughlin with the NFL Players Association.

Did you all see that Coughlin drafted his son in law with I think their second round draft choice?

And then what is going on with the firing of Kerry Collins, a very good quarterback who was apparently a core team leader?

And what about paying the huge price they did to move up in the draft to pick Eli Manning? Was that a wise use of their draft choices?

SmootSmack · 05-18-2004, 09:09 PM

I look at the Giants and the 49ers and I see two teams going nowhere fast.

First the Giants got rid of taskmaster Jim Fassell and replaced him with taskmaster Tom Coughlin, and while Coughlin is proven is he all that much more proven than Fassel? This isn't like bringing Parcells or Gibbs to right the ship

As for Kerry Collins. I think he can still play and I'm sure he'll find a place to play in the next few months. And I don't think replacing him with Kurt Warner would be an improvement. Warner is a shell (if event that) of what he was 4 years ago and had the benefit of Holt, Bruce and Faulk making up the "greatest show on turf"

As for the Eli Manning deal...they wuz robbed!

exit0 · 05-18-2004, 09:14 PM

I think the Giants really made some dumb moves. The players quit on Fassell. Maybe he lost control of the team I don't know... but he had them playing way over their talent the previous years.

And they gave WAAAY too much to get Manning. Lots of the experts didn't even think Manning was the top QB and the Giants mortgaged some of their future for this guy... who got so much publicity just because of his name.
We'll see.... he may prove me wrong but I'm thinking they gave up way too much for him.

Daseal · 05-18-2004, 09:15 PM

I don't think that the Giants are making bad decesions. Collins didn't want to be a backup, and when you have a QB with the potential of Eli you go ahead and toss him in feet first.

Let's look at their offense:
Tiki Barber - A solid back with fumble problems, but better than what 95% of the first picks end up with for a RB.
Amani Toomer - One of the better receivers in the NFL, great to throw to!
Jeremey Shockee - Arguably the best TE in football, definitely a nice check down.
Ike Hilliard - very solid receiver.

Get rid of their line, and the Giants have a lot of offensive talent. If they can solidify their offensive line I'd be pretty scared of them.

For the most part they have to rebuild thier defense off cornerstones such as Michael Strahan.

I don't think they're going to be great this year, but I also think that in a couple years they could have a solid team. Fassell was too buddy buddy for the Giants, and they might have a tough time adjusting to a hardnosed coach.

Collins is gone because he wanted it more than them wanting him gone.

JoeRedskin · 05-18-2004, 10:43 PM

I'm with Smoot. The Giants are going nowhere. Regardless of talent, this is a team with real "personality" problems. By game 5, they will be fighting with the coach, fighting with each other and giving up in games. San Diego is getting the number 1 pick again next year.

And, Daseal, there is no need to get rid of their O-Line, it's non-existent anyway.

Daseal · 05-18-2004, 10:45 PM

I meant if you take the line out of the equation. Omit their offensive line, and they have a very talented offense. As I said, it will take a few years, but this division is gonna be tough!

Gmanc711 · 05-18-2004, 10:59 PM

They wont be as bad as people expect this year, I dont think. They wont be good either, however. I think in 3-4 years, they are gonna be a team to watch out for. It all depends on Emily Manning though.

Ghost · 05-19-2004, 12:31 AM

If Eli turns out to be half as good as his brother, we'll be hating life in a few years. That said, I think they should have kept their 2005 first rounder (likely to be top ten, perhaps top five) and taken Rivers or moved down for Roethlisberger. The idea of trading two high draft picks for one unproven player would bother me if I were a Giants fan, especially since the difference between Eli, Rivers and Big Ben is fairly minimal, according to the draft experts. But you know that at least one of them will be the latest incarnation of Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf.

If Eli becomes a perennial Pro Bowler, then obviously it's a good trade. It'll take him at least a season to get acclimated though. I'd say the Giants are looking at another losing year but you never know in the NFL ... these days it's a short climb from cellar to Super Bowl.

SmootSmack · 05-19-2004, 01:32 AM

I think Gman and to a lesser degree Ghost (sorry just had to say it) have brought up good points. It really does depend on "Emily" Manning but they gave up too much I think for someone who isn't clearly better at this point than Rivers or Roethlisberger

BleedBurgundy · 05-19-2004, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

... to a lesser degree Ghost (sorry just had to say it)

Hell hath no fury like a moderator scorned. :FIREdevil

hi-jinx · 05-19-2004, 02:09 AM

They were sort of in the same place the Chargers were they have more holes in their game than just QB. And now Eli has to live up to the hype of the trade(Sorta like the Ricky williams thing). As far as the coaches I like the fact they got someone to come in a kick them hard. These guys gave up on their coach last year half way though the season. Also one big thing in Eli's favor is they have a pretty good QB coach in Kevin Gilbride.

bedlamVR · 05-19-2004, 02:14 AM

I think 2004 will be rembered as a Manning year, i don't think the NFL has seen such a family of primadonnas . Eli stomped his feet and whined his way to the G-men making sure they gave up a bundle for him and Payton took th typically cash poor Colts to the cleaners with his huge contract this year.

The ironic part of this is Archie ended up being a star on a really bad team and wanted better for his sons but both have them to an extent have made sure thier respective teams will not be as good as they could be . Payton has contributed to the cap crunch which has seen rising stars like Washington leave the Colts because the Colts have invested so much in him. The Giants have in the past made some bizzare draft choices but next year they don't have a first pick which will likley be at least a top ten choice, and I know we have a rep for giving up draft picks for players but their we are trading for proven commodities (Coles, Morton etc) they have mortgaged the future on a kid who hasn't played a down in the NFL.

bedlamVR · 05-19-2004, 02:32 AM

The other thing which occurs to me is the Giants were not one player away from the Superbowl, especially not QB. The dried out Collins was at least servicable back there sure Hillard and Toomer are good at WR and Shockley(sp?) is a great TE but Barber puts the ball on the floor far too often and is a huge liability and it was a push to say thier OL was any better than ours last year and say what you want the OL is were your offence starts forget that and nothing else works especially when you hav teams willing to blitz 8 and 9 players everydown .

On the defence they have Strahan and thats about it. DBs arent bad but they lost depth there this year and the LB core seem to have taken a step backwards and as for thier defensive line can they field a worse line than us?

Sure the Giants may be in full on rebuilding mode but you have to start laying foundation for the future sure in the next 3-4 years they could be strong but in this FA eara of the NFL most teams have a window of only 3-4 years before they are dismantled and rebuilt I am not sure you can build a team over a period of years any more.

Look at the Pats they have 2 superbowls in 3 years but not with the same teams. They picked up some key FA's who played thier socks off like Ted Washington that got them to the big game last year but it is coaching and focused front office that made the difference.

offiss · 05-19-2004, 04:40 AM

I like the Coughlin hire, but that is it, I don't like anything they have done the last 2 year's, they didn't figure out that thier problem's stemmed from letting all thier O-linemen go, and have the same problem again, they played out the draft about as stupid as can be, they could have traded down to cleveland and still picked river's, and could have obtained some more draft pick's, dumb!

05-18-2004, 08:53 PM	#1
Shane Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 277	Are the NY Giants making good decisions?

05-18-2004, 09:09 PM	#3
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	I look at the Giants and the 49ers and I see two teams going nowhere fast. First the Giants got rid of taskmaster Jim Fassell and replaced him with taskmaster Tom Coughlin, and while Coughlin is proven is he all that much more proven than Fassel? This isn't like bringing Parcells or Gibbs to right the ship As for Kerry Collins. I think he can still play and I'm sure he'll find a place to play in the next few months. And I don't think replacing him with Kurt Warner would be an improvement. Warner is a shell (if event that) of what he was 4 years ago and had the benefit of Holt, Bruce and Faulk making up the "greatest show on turf" As for the Eli Manning deal...they wuz robbed! __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

05-19-2004, 12:31 AM	#9
Ghost Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 298	If Eli turns out to be half as good as his brother, we'll be hating life in a few years. That said, I think they should have kept their 2005 first rounder (likely to be top ten, perhaps top five) and taken Rivers or moved down for Roethlisberger. The idea of trading two high draft picks for one unproven player would bother me if I were a Giants fan, especially since the difference between Eli, Rivers and Big Ben is fairly minimal, according to the draft experts. But you know that at least one of them will be the latest incarnation of Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf. If Eli becomes a perennial Pro Bowler, then obviously it's a good trade. It'll take him at least a season to get acclimated though. I'd say the Giants are looking at another losing year but you never know in the NFL ... these days it's a short climb from cellar to Super Bowl. Last edited by Ghost; 05-19-2004 at 12:45 AM.

05-19-2004, 01:32 AM	#10
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	I think Gman and to a lesser degree Ghost (sorry just had to say it) have brought up good points. It really does depend on "Emily" Manning but they gave up too much I think for someone who isn't clearly better at this point than Rivers or Roethlisberger __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

05-18-2004, 08:59 PM	#2
Shane Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 277	Somehow the headline of the post got posted before I could write anything. I am wondering if the Giants have made a good decision in hiring taskmaster Tom Coughlin. Is Coach Coughlin out of step with the times? It is interesting that some of the Giants have already gotten so concerned that they have filed a grievance against Coughlin with the NFL Players Association. Did you all see that Coughlin drafted his son in law with I think their second round draft choice? And then what is going on with the firing of Kerry Collins, a very good quarterback who was apparently a core team leader? And what about paying the huge price they did to move up in the draft to pick Eli Manning? Was that a wise use of their draft choices?

05-18-2004, 09:14 PM	#4
exit0 Camp Scrub Join Date: May 2004 Location: Vienna, Va. Posts: 87	I think the Giants really made some dumb moves. The players quit on Fassell. Maybe he lost control of the team I don't know... but he had them playing way over their talent the previous years. And they gave WAAAY too much to get Manning. Lots of the experts didn't even think Manning was the top QB and the Giants mortgaged some of their future for this guy... who got so much publicity just because of his name. We'll see.... he may prove me wrong but I'm thinking they gave up way too much for him.

05-18-2004, 09:15 PM	#5
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I don't think that the Giants are making bad decesions. Collins didn't want to be a backup, and when you have a QB with the potential of Eli you go ahead and toss him in feet first. Let's look at their offense: Tiki Barber - A solid back with fumble problems, but better than what 95% of the first picks end up with for a RB. Amani Toomer - One of the better receivers in the NFL, great to throw to! Jeremey Shockee - Arguably the best TE in football, definitely a nice check down. Ike Hilliard - very solid receiver. Get rid of their line, and the Giants have a lot of offensive talent. If they can solidify their offensive line I'd be pretty scared of them. For the most part they have to rebuild thier defense off cornerstones such as Michael Strahan. I don't think they're going to be great this year, but I also think that in a couple years they could have a solid team. Fassell was too buddy buddy for the Giants, and they might have a tough time adjusting to a hardnosed coach. Collins is gone because he wanted it more than them wanting him gone.

05-18-2004, 10:43 PM	#6
JoeRedskin Contains football related knowledge Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Second Star On The Right Age: 61 Posts: 10,401	I'm with Smoot. The Giants are going nowhere. Regardless of talent, this is a team with real "personality" problems. By game 5, they will be fighting with the coach, fighting with each other and giving up in games. San Diego is getting the number 1 pick again next year. And, Daseal, there is no need to get rid of their O-Line, it's non-existent anyway.

05-18-2004, 10:45 PM	#7
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I meant if you take the line out of the equation. Omit their offensive line, and they have a very talented offense. As I said, it will take a few years, but this division is gonna be tough!

05-18-2004, 10:59 PM	#8
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	They wont be as bad as people expect this year, I dont think. They wont be good either, however. I think in 3-4 years, they are gonna be a team to watch out for. It all depends on Emily Manning though.

05-19-2004, 02:09 AM	#12
hi-jinx Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Memphis Age: 49 Posts: 180	They were sort of in the same place the Chargers were they have more holes in their game than just QB. And now Eli has to live up to the hype of the trade(Sorta like the Ricky williams thing). As far as the coaches I like the fact they got someone to come in a kick them hard. These guys gave up on their coach last year half way though the season. Also one big thing in Eli's favor is they have a pretty good QB coach in Kevin Gilbride.

05-19-2004, 02:14 AM	#13
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	I think 2004 will be rembered as a Manning year, i don't think the NFL has seen such a family of primadonnas . Eli stomped his feet and whined his way to the G-men making sure they gave up a bundle for him and Payton took th typically cash poor Colts to the cleaners with his huge contract this year. The ironic part of this is Archie ended up being a star on a really bad team and wanted better for his sons but both have them to an extent have made sure thier respective teams will not be as good as they could be . Payton has contributed to the cap crunch which has seen rising stars like Washington leave the Colts because the Colts have invested so much in him. The Giants have in the past made some bizzare draft choices but next year they don't have a first pick which will likley be at least a top ten choice, and I know we have a rep for giving up draft picks for players but their we are trading for proven commodities (Coles, Morton etc) they have mortgaged the future on a kid who hasn't played a down in the NFL.

05-19-2004, 02:32 AM	#14
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	The other thing which occurs to me is the Giants were not one player away from the Superbowl, especially not QB. The dried out Collins was at least servicable back there sure Hillard and Toomer are good at WR and Shockley(sp?) is a great TE but Barber puts the ball on the floor far too often and is a huge liability and it was a push to say thier OL was any better than ours last year and say what you want the OL is were your offence starts forget that and nothing else works especially when you hav teams willing to blitz 8 and 9 players everydown . On the defence they have Strahan and thats about it. DBs arent bad but they lost depth there this year and the LB core seem to have taken a step backwards and as for thier defensive line can they field a worse line than us? Sure the Giants may be in full on rebuilding mode but you have to start laying foundation for the future sure in the next 3-4 years they could be strong but in this FA eara of the NFL most teams have a window of only 3-4 years before they are dismantled and rebuilt I am not sure you can build a team over a period of years any more. Look at the Pats they have 2 superbowls in 3 years but not with the same teams. They picked up some key FA's who played thier socks off like Ted Washington that got them to the big game last year but it is coaching and focused front office that made the difference.

05-19-2004, 04:40 AM	#15
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	I like the Coughlin hire, but that is it, I don't like anything they have done the last 2 year's, they didn't figure out that thier problem's stemmed from letting all thier O-linemen go, and have the same problem again, they played out the draft about as stupid as can be, they could have traded down to cleveland and still picked river's, and could have obtained some more draft pick's, dumb!

Are the NY Giants making good decisions?

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