Is Owens that good or the new Eagles CB's that bad?

JoeRedskin · 05-06-2004, 10:17 AM

From John Clayton at ESPN.com listing Eagles as 9th most improved team in offseason ('Skins were number 4 behind Detroit, Oakland, Atlanta):

"Philadelphia needed to make some bold moves to stay ahead in the NFC East, which has suddenly become one of the league's most competitive divisions. Everyone noticed in minicamp the separation Terrell Owens was getting on cornerbacks. Donovan McNabb has never had that type of receiver in his five seasons in Philadelphia."

So, would he have gotten separation against Taylor and Vincent? Will he get it against Smoot and Springs?

Or - Will Coles, Taylor and Gardner have a field day against Philly's new DB's?

I personally think Owens is going to improve the Eagles. I think he and McNabb will be scary good together because both McNabb and Reid won't put up w/ TO's bs. McNabb's competitive fire is more akin to TO's then Garcia's was. Also, McNabb will not let himself be outworked by anyone on his team. For all his failings as a QB, McNabb is the leader of the Eagles in a way that Garcia wasn't for the 49'ers (Not trying to knock on Garcia, I think he is a limited but quality QB and that TO's attitude towards him was/is classless).

I hope TO implodes and breaks into his "I am the greatest" mode. I just don't see it happening w/ McNabb and Reid around.

Also, I think Springs matches up against TO pretty well. Even if TO gets the better of him in some of their battles, I don't see TO being a "playmaker" against Springs. (Side notes: For JoeCrisp - How did Springs look in our minicamp? For everyone - Do you think Springs can get back to being a "shutdown corner" in the league?)

With that said, I think the Eagle DB's are going to be known as the "English Muffin Boys" because they gonna get toasted by everybody. Even if they were on the downside and gonna be overpriced - letting BOTH Vincent and Taylor go is gonna be the downfall of this team. Johnson will either have to blitz less and scheme help to the CB's OR bitz 9 each play and pray for a sack before anybody can get open.

FRPLG · 05-06-2004, 10:27 AM

This the first time Philly has gone out and tried to improve the team in a big way. Seeing as how they had been successful for several years I think this move will prove either to be a giant success or a total failure. There won't be much in between. Really though...it's looking like a two horse race in the NFC East. With the Giants most experienced quatreback being the Bachelor and the 'Boys sticking to their guns on Carter can anyone honestly expect them to compete? Parcells is a great coach but he caught the football karma last year and karma always comes back on you. They CANNOT be taken seriously with Carter at QB.

SKINSnCANES · 05-06-2004, 10:52 AM

The Eagles are going to have to hope for a lot of pressure with their front 7. They still have Brian Dawkins in the secondary, so lets not forget about him. But Dawkins cant cover everyone, expecially a system where Gibbs has a Hback running around. And more importantly, and hback picking up blitzes to keep the QB protected. Even with Kearse the Eagles D has taken a hit, they lost their leader in Emmons and both starting corners. Their offence now has a big threat receiver, McNabb is always a threat, but we'll see if they have a running game. I think the Skins are a more complete team, but no one can argue that the Eagles have been the best team in the NFL for the last three years (recordwise ateleast)

joethiesmanfan · 05-06-2004, 12:05 PM

the eagles DB's will be fine. they have some good young talent. i wouldnt bet on them being toasted much. thats weak. do you think andy reid would have let vincent and taylor go if he didnt know he had good backups in the eings for the last two years? come on fellas. Springs in a word is garbage. Walt Harris will have to be our other corner by week 8 remeber that quote.

joethiesmanfan · 05-06-2004, 12:08 PM

P.S. Garcia is garbage too. Him and Quincy Carter are in the same league.

JWsleep · 05-06-2004, 12:55 PM

Joetheismanfan:

Why do you think Springs is garbage? Do you mean injury-prone? Or is it something else about him you don't like? I don't know much about him, but he made the probowl a few seasons back...

SmootSmack · 05-06-2004, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

P.S. Garcia is garbage too. Him and Quincy Carter are in the same league.

You're talking about Jeff Garcia? I'm not so sure I would say he's in the same league as Carter. That seems like a pretty bold statement to make

joethiesmanfan · 05-06-2004, 01:29 PM

Well springs doesnot impress me. I always remember him getting burnt. remember the T.O. sharpie incident? Springs was the victim and the victim alot that game. He is no where near Smootie or Champ him and Walt Harris right now are bout the same. You can't have a cb injury prone that's an oxymoron. If A CB HURT THEN HE BURNT. As far as Garcia compare him to Tim Rattay. Tim who??? He had enough sense to understand if you losing and T.O. is on your team it makes logical sense to throw him the ball. That would be like Ramsey not throwing to coles while we are behind. You mean there weren't plays designed for T.O.? If you lose and dont use your most potent weapon i blame the coach but when Rattay comes in and does better getting the ball to T.O. and the team improves I blame bubble bum armed Garcia.

joethiesmanfan · 05-06-2004, 01:36 PM

P.S. except smoot he the man hurt or not. The new number one corner in the league after this year. my next prediction.

joethiesmanfan · 05-06-2004, 01:44 PM

P.S.S. my list of people i dont want to be redskins. Kordell Stewart, Garcia, Warner, Quincy Carter, Hambrick, Sapp, can yall help me add to this list so we can email it to coach Gibbs the god of all NFL coaches. then take the list personally to vinny and Dannyboy. so they don,t have any excuse for doing more Front office follies.

Daseal · 05-06-2004, 02:26 PM

Just curious what your beef with Kordell is. I think he has talent and when the Bears lost, it wasn't because of him. I saw his receivers getting hit in the numbers and the ball still landed on the ground.

I don't think Garcia is that good, the thing about Quincy Carter is he's still very young and very mobile. Don't count him down just yet!

Springs has been said to be one of the most physically gifted CBs ever. He's well proportioned, fast, etc. Unfortunatly he has a body that breaks down a lot. If Springs could get to a healthy form and stay there, we'll all be saying Champ who? really soon.

JoeRedskin · 05-06-2004, 02:44 PM

JoeTheisman -

Sorry, I disagree with you on the Garcia assesment. I acknowledge he is physically limited, but the man knows his limitations and plays well within them. No, he will never be confused with Elway or even Montana but he is more than a competent starter. As I recall, he came in at the end of the year last season and played well for SF - had a QB rating over a hundred for the last four games. As for his failure to utilize TO, the two of them had so much baggage last year, SF wasn't going to go out of its way to retain either of them - Regardless of their respective talent.

As for the Eagles CB's, you may be right. I just remember reading that Brown (the high draft pick from a couple year's ago) struggled in coverage. It's entirely possible that Reid knows something no one else does. But, to this point, the new CB's haven't shown it. Neither of these guys are rookies, and they couldn't displace Taylor OR Vincent last year - Yet, now they are BOTH better than either Taylor or Vincent? Somehow, I find that hard to believe.

As for Springs, again you may be right - he may be injury prone from now on out. But as he pointed out in a recent interview, his first three years he started everygame and went to the pro bowl once. My question is whether or not he can get back to that level. Every report I have read on him is that he is fast, physical and moves well and that his only limitations stem from his recent injuries. I guess, we only see after the season starts.

P.S.: If you want to start talking about guys who should not be Redskins, go start your own thread! I wanted answers to my questions here.

joethiesmanfan · 05-06-2004, 02:50 PM

champ who?? We'll never be saying that. If he was so good knowing how valuable corners are why did they let him go he wasnt asking for too much like champ. He was expendable, he wasn't playing like Chris Mcallister. He will be good in case of an emergency. Well I tell you what Kordell has had his chances, how many do you get?
Comparison::: Remember we played San francisco Spurriers first year and T.O. had two catches for 33 yards he ran a reverse for a touch. that same year later he had the SHARPIE SHARPIE SHARPIE incident against Springs who is now immortal because of the SAHRPIE incident.. he had 6 catches for 86 yards and 2 touches off receptions. that was 2002 you tell me if Springs is garbage or not. you tell me if he can compare to Champ in any category he smiles alot but he gets burnt alot. Carter is garbage hell he is immortal for giving the Texans their first victory in their first game ever. My favorite cowboy moment ever was during that game. (Carter overtthrows the wideout and Dave Campo makes the grab on the sideline it was if he threw the ball to Campo and the receiver was wide open the ball sailed right over his head and went right into Campos arms..hahaha Dallas got beat by Houston. great qbs dont have moments like that even in highschool...Springs is a short term answer we need draft picks to get good corners and pick more than one cause they have a 50% coverage illiteracy rate.

joethiesmanfan · 05-06-2004, 02:54 PM

P.S. sorry about disrespecting your thread. but look at the question is T.O. that good?
Is Jerry rice in San Fran? No why? cause T.O. is that good.

JoeRedskin · 05-06-2004, 03:08 PM

Jerry Rice isn't SF b/c it became a money/age thing. And yes, having a competent starter in the wings with TO.

As for the Springs/Sharpie incident - That's kinda the point. In 2002 and 2003, Springs was injured. The question is whether this is going to be a permanent issue for him OR were the past injuries just coincedental. Why'd Seattle let him go? Marcus Trufant AND Springs was asking too much for Seattle to pay. (Who'd they get to replace Springs? Bobby Taylor - at a much lower price then Springs).

05-06-2004, 10:17 AM	#1
JoeRedskin Contains football related knowledge Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Second Star On The Right Age: 61 Posts: 10,401	Is Owens that good or the new Eagles CB's that bad? From John Clayton at ESPN.com listing Eagles as 9th most improved team in offseason ('Skins were number 4 behind Detroit, Oakland, Atlanta): "Philadelphia needed to make some bold moves to stay ahead in the NFC East, which has suddenly become one of the league's most competitive divisions. Everyone noticed in minicamp the separation Terrell Owens was getting on cornerbacks. Donovan McNabb has never had that type of receiver in his five seasons in Philadelphia." So, would he have gotten separation against Taylor and Vincent? Will he get it against Smoot and Springs? Or - Will Coles, Taylor and Gardner have a field day against Philly's new DB's? I personally think Owens is going to improve the Eagles. I think he and McNabb will be scary good together because both McNabb and Reid won't put up w/ TO's bs. McNabb's competitive fire is more akin to TO's then Garcia's was. Also, McNabb will not let himself be outworked by anyone on his team. For all his failings as a QB, McNabb is the leader of the Eagles in a way that Garcia wasn't for the 49'ers (Not trying to knock on Garcia, I think he is a limited but quality QB and that TO's attitude towards him was/is classless). I hope TO implodes and breaks into his "I am the greatest" mode. I just don't see it happening w/ McNabb and Reid around. Also, I think Springs matches up against TO pretty well. Even if TO gets the better of him in some of their battles, I don't see TO being a "playmaker" against Springs. (Side notes: For JoeCrisp - How did Springs look in our minicamp? For everyone - Do you think Springs can get back to being a "shutdown corner" in the league?) With that said, I think the Eagle DB's are going to be known as the "English Muffin Boys" because they gonna get toasted by everybody. Even if they were on the downside and gonna be overpriced - letting BOTH Vincent and Taylor go is gonna be the downfall of this team. Johnson will either have to blitz less and scheme help to the CB's OR bitz 9 each play and pray for a sack before anybody can get open. Last edited by JoeRedskin; 05-06-2004 at 10:23 AM.

05-06-2004, 12:55 PM	#6
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,714	Joetheismanfan: Why do you think Springs is garbage? Do you mean injury-prone? Or is it something else about him you don't like? I don't know much about him, but he made the probowl a few seasons back... __________________ Hail from Houston!

05-06-2004, 02:44 PM	#12
JoeRedskin Contains football related knowledge Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Second Star On The Right Age: 61 Posts: 10,401	JoeTheisman - Sorry, I disagree with you on the Garcia assesment. I acknowledge he is physically limited, but the man knows his limitations and plays well within them. No, he will never be confused with Elway or even Montana but he is more than a competent starter. As I recall, he came in at the end of the year last season and played well for SF - had a QB rating over a hundred for the last four games. As for his failure to utilize TO, the two of them had so much baggage last year, SF wasn't going to go out of its way to retain either of them - Regardless of their respective talent. As for the Eagles CB's, you may be right. I just remember reading that Brown (the high draft pick from a couple year's ago) struggled in coverage. It's entirely possible that Reid knows something no one else does. But, to this point, the new CB's haven't shown it. Neither of these guys are rookies, and they couldn't displace Taylor OR Vincent last year - Yet, now they are BOTH better than either Taylor or Vincent? Somehow, I find that hard to believe. As for Springs, again you may be right - he may be injury prone from now on out. But as he pointed out in a recent interview, his first three years he started everygame and went to the pro bowl once. My question is whether or not he can get back to that level. Every report I have read on him is that he is fast, physical and moves well and that his only limitations stem from his recent injuries. I guess, we only see after the season starts. P.S.: If you want to start talking about guys who should not be Redskins, go start your own thread! I wanted answers to my questions here. Last edited by JoeRedskin; 05-06-2004 at 02:48 PM.

05-06-2004, 10:27 AM	#2
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	This the first time Philly has gone out and tried to improve the team in a big way. Seeing as how they had been successful for several years I think this move will prove either to be a giant success or a total failure. There won't be much in between. Really though...it's looking like a two horse race in the NFC East. With the Giants most experienced quatreback being the Bachelor and the 'Boys sticking to their guns on Carter can anyone honestly expect them to compete? Parcells is a great coach but he caught the football karma last year and karma always comes back on you. They CANNOT be taken seriously with Carter at QB.

05-06-2004, 10:52 AM	#3
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	The Eagles are going to have to hope for a lot of pressure with their front 7. They still have Brian Dawkins in the secondary, so lets not forget about him. But Dawkins cant cover everyone, expecially a system where Gibbs has a Hback running around. And more importantly, and hback picking up blitzes to keep the QB protected. Even with Kearse the Eagles D has taken a hit, they lost their leader in Emmons and both starting corners. Their offence now has a big threat receiver, McNabb is always a threat, but we'll see if they have a running game. I think the Skins are a more complete team, but no one can argue that the Eagles have been the best team in the NFL for the last three years (recordwise ateleast)

05-06-2004, 12:05 PM	#4
joethiesmanfan The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,163	the eagles DB's will be fine. they have some good young talent. i wouldnt bet on them being toasted much. thats weak. do you think andy reid would have let vincent and taylor go if he didnt know he had good backups in the eings for the last two years? come on fellas. Springs in a word is garbage. Walt Harris will have to be our other corner by week 8 remeber that quote.

05-06-2004, 12:08 PM	#5
joethiesmanfan The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,163	P.S. Garcia is garbage too. Him and Quincy Carter are in the same league.

05-06-2004, 01:29 PM	#8
joethiesmanfan The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,163	Well springs doesnot impress me. I always remember him getting burnt. remember the T.O. sharpie incident? Springs was the victim and the victim alot that game. He is no where near Smootie or Champ him and Walt Harris right now are bout the same. You can't have a cb injury prone that's an oxymoron. If A CB HURT THEN HE BURNT. As far as Garcia compare him to Tim Rattay. Tim who??? He had enough sense to understand if you losing and T.O. is on your team it makes logical sense to throw him the ball. That would be like Ramsey not throwing to coles while we are behind. You mean there weren't plays designed for T.O.? If you lose and dont use your most potent weapon i blame the coach but when Rattay comes in and does better getting the ball to T.O. and the team improves I blame bubble bum armed Garcia.

05-06-2004, 01:36 PM	#9
joethiesmanfan The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,163	P.S. except smoot he the man hurt or not. The new number one corner in the league after this year. my next prediction.

05-06-2004, 01:44 PM	#10
joethiesmanfan The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,163	P.S.S. my list of people i dont want to be redskins. Kordell Stewart, Garcia, Warner, Quincy Carter, Hambrick, Sapp, can yall help me add to this list so we can email it to coach Gibbs the god of all NFL coaches. then take the list personally to vinny and Dannyboy. so they don,t have any excuse for doing more Front office follies.

05-06-2004, 02:26 PM	#11
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Just curious what your beef with Kordell is. I think he has talent and when the Bears lost, it wasn't because of him. I saw his receivers getting hit in the numbers and the ball still landed on the ground. I don't think Garcia is that good, the thing about Quincy Carter is he's still very young and very mobile. Don't count him down just yet! Springs has been said to be one of the most physically gifted CBs ever. He's well proportioned, fast, etc. Unfortunatly he has a body that breaks down a lot. If Springs could get to a healthy form and stay there, we'll all be saying Champ who? really soon.

05-06-2004, 02:50 PM	#13
joethiesmanfan The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,163	champ who?? We'll never be saying that. If he was so good knowing how valuable corners are why did they let him go he wasnt asking for too much like champ. He was expendable, he wasn't playing like Chris Mcallister. He will be good in case of an emergency. Well I tell you what Kordell has had his chances, how many do you get? Comparison::: Remember we played San francisco Spurriers first year and T.O. had two catches for 33 yards he ran a reverse for a touch. that same year later he had the SHARPIE SHARPIE SHARPIE incident against Springs who is now immortal because of the SAHRPIE incident.. he had 6 catches for 86 yards and 2 touches off receptions. that was 2002 you tell me if Springs is garbage or not. you tell me if he can compare to Champ in any category he smiles alot but he gets burnt alot. Carter is garbage hell he is immortal for giving the Texans their first victory in their first game ever. My favorite cowboy moment ever was during that game. (Carter overtthrows the wideout and Dave Campo makes the grab on the sideline it was if he threw the ball to Campo and the receiver was wide open the ball sailed right over his head and went right into Campos arms..hahaha Dallas got beat by Houston. great qbs dont have moments like that even in highschool...Springs is a short term answer we need draft picks to get good corners and pick more than one cause they have a 50% coverage illiteracy rate.

05-06-2004, 02:54 PM	#14
joethiesmanfan The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,163	P.S. sorry about disrespecting your thread. but look at the question is T.O. that good? Is Jerry rice in San Fran? No why? cause T.O. is that good.

05-06-2004, 03:08 PM	#15
JoeRedskin Contains football related knowledge Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Second Star On The Right Age: 61 Posts: 10,401	Jerry Rice isn't SF b/c it became a money/age thing. And yes, having a competent starter in the wings with TO. As for the Springs/Sharpie incident - That's kinda the point. In 2002 and 2003, Springs was injured. The question is whether this is going to be a permanent issue for him OR were the past injuries just coincedental. Why'd Seattle let him go? Marcus Trufant AND Springs was asking too much for Seattle to pay. (Who'd they get to replace Springs? Bobby Taylor - at a much lower price then Springs).

Is Owens that good or the new Eagles CB's that bad?

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