rooting for Goliath

Huddle · 03-26-2006, 06:30 PM

Some recent threads reacting angrily to news articles blasting the Redskins on their free agency spending inspired these thoughts.

The New York Yankees have been buying the best players in the league for 75 years. Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Goliath.

If our free agency spending strategy leads to a dynasty, we can't expect the Redskins organization to be admired in the way that the Patriots organization has been admired in recent years. Outsmarting your opponents is thought of as being competitive within the spirit of the rules. Using your ability to outspend your opponents is considered by most to be taking an unfair advantage.

Redskins' fans are going to need to become thick-skinned about criticism of our team in the media and on the message boards of fansites across the country. Dan Snyder is their target now but, if this year's team can't cut it, we can expect some of them to develop the bravado to take some shots at the stewardship of Joe Gibbs despite his Hall of Fame reputation.

If we win, don't expect most Americans to be standing in line to congratulate us. If we lose, expect them to rejoice. It's just human nature to root against Goliath.

BigSKINBauer · 03-26-2006, 06:39 PM

everyone follows the same cap .(period)

Huddle · 03-26-2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

everyone follows the same cap .(period)

On a Redskins' fansite your argument is sufficient to close the discussion. But I was talking about other fans around the league.

That Guy · 03-26-2006, 08:15 PM

its different. you can't outspend consistantly with a cap and its nearly impossible to field a team that's in the superbowl even 2 years in a row. People jab synder anyways, worst case, nothing changes... but i don't you'll see anything like the anti-yankee anti-duke stuff. Its not like we're playing by different rules or we're going to go to 10 super bowls in a row.

Huddle · 03-26-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huddle

On a Redskins' fansite your argument is sufficient to close the discussion. But I was talking about other fans around the league and the media.

Edited...Huddle

Huddle · 03-26-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

its different. you can't outspend consistantly with a cap and its nearly impossible to field a team that's in the superbowl even 2 years in a row. People jab synder anyways, worst case, nothing changes... but i don't you'll see anything like the anti-yankee anti-duke stuff. Its not like we're playing by different rules or we're going to go to 10 super bowls in a row.

We have had the highest actual payroll for several seasons though...haven't we?

That Guy · 03-26-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huddle

We have had the highest actual payroll for several seasons though...haven't we?

maybe, i know we lead in 2004, but not before then. usa today hasn't posted info on 2005 or 2006, though we didn't sign many people in 2005 (patten, moss, and rabach - pretty cheap) and without huge signing bonuses, its hard to lead in payroll. I'm sure we'll lead this year, but 2005 i'd be a bit surprised.

the other side is we lead in deadcap every year, and that's definately not a good thing. next year we won't have space to hand out another 40$mill in bonuses though, so it's pretty hard to lead multiple years in a row when offseason spending is so peaked in one season.

dmek25 · 03-26-2006, 08:40 PM

a win is a win is a win.to me,winning cures everything.i really dont care what other fans think

Huddle · 03-26-2006, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

maybe, i know we lead in 2004, but not before then. usa today hasn't posted info on 2005 or 2006, though we didn't sign many people in 2005 (patten, moss, and rabach - pretty cheap) and without huge signing bonuses, its hard to lead in payroll. I'm sure we'll lead this year, but 2005 i'd be a bit surprised.

the other side is we lead in deadcap every year, and that's definately not a good thing. next year we won't have space to hand out another 40$mill in bonuses though, so it's pretty hard to lead multiple years in a row when offseason spending is so peaked in one season.

Well, our reputation for being big spenders goes back to 2000.

I was using the Yankees purely as analogy. With the cap, we cannot achieve their dominance, nevertheless we are creating a similar reputation. I'm not upset by the flack we get but others here seem to be.

fja711 · 03-26-2006, 09:58 PM

All teams have the same amount of money to spend. Some teams chose to spend it all and some don't. The joke is that you get critisized for being agressive and trying to put together a great group of players. Fact is that all those players are independant contractors and are trying to work for the most money possible. I don't think there is one team that has a player playing for nothing. Based on playoff wins and championships I'd have to say the Mannings are overpaid yet nobody seems to be critical of the Colts or the Giants.

Schneed10 · 03-26-2006, 11:01 PM

They key thing to remember is there is no franchise in the NFL that is incapable of turning a profit by spending up to the salary cap. The salary cap is set at such a level that even Arizona can turn a profit by spending that money. Therefore, money doesn't enter the equation with football like it does in baseball.

There are plenty of teams that whine and cry about big market teams, but the truth is they have the funds to pay for players too. Many just choose not to. So let the uninformed say what they want.

Redskins8588 · 03-27-2006, 12:21 AM

I said it before on here, I will gladly take an owner that is not afraid to spend the $$ money on the team like Snyder does. Atleast he is trying to put a winning team on the field. Back in 2000 he didnt fair well with his spending but so what you make mistakes and learn, thats the only way to truely learn.

I would rather sit here and bitch about the media haters than bitch about an owner that wont try...

Kope · 03-27-2006, 12:38 AM

Goliath - shmoliath. Like NYG/NYJ, DaBears, Pats and Fish have no poplulation to draw from; paaalease. Snyder is pulling his weight...what about the other owners?

KLHJ2 · 03-27-2006, 12:39 AM

You know, I admit that when Snyder was making all of those big spendings like Deion and so forth I was impressed that he even tried to get big name players. He was at least trying to improve his team. He could not help the fact they were out of their prime time. Since he took over we have always had a kick ass off season.The sad part was that it didn't always translate into wins. I am happy to say that with Joe Gibbs's return improvements have been made. And to the credit of the spoiled rich kid it is finally starting to work out for him. All he has ever wanted for the Skins is to bee winners, and he has proven that. He has done nothing more than any of us have done while playing Madden football. Hiring the best free agents in order for us to easier win the Super Bowl. Yet we criticize him constantly. One day all of that spent money is going to translate into a Super Bowl. So stop complaining about his open pockets, and welcome them. We will thank him later!

Sociofan · 03-27-2006, 01:51 AM

Okay, as a Red Sox fanatic, I immediataly resent any comparisons of the Redskins to the Yankees.

The reality is that you cannot compare the Redskins to any baseball team. There is no cap in baseball and so Steinbrenner can outspend other teams by twice as much if he so chooses. In football, each team is held to the same annual spending limit. Granted, you can spend creatively, but everyone in the end is allowed exactly the same amount.

What is more curious to me is the criticism of the signings. Snyder, in my opinion, just completed one of the most targeted and well conceived free agent signing periods of his ownership. He gave a lot of up front money, but the overall contracts were reasonable. And yet we have Dallas signing players like Fabini (3 years up to $7.5M) who is physically questionable at best, Owens ($10M per), who needs no description of his risks, and Ayodele (5 years $17M), who is a pure 4-3 LB to insert into a 3-4 scheme (note: Fujita had to be cast off from Dallas this offseason for the very same reason). How is it that the former poster boy for excess (Jerry Jones) has avoided the same criticisms?

Jack Kent Cooke used to spend money like he was printing it and would routinely have one of (if not THE) highest payrolls in the NFL. Yet people loved him and the Skins. Was it because he was the cantankerous old curmudgeon? And Snyder is the brash young executive? To be honest, they are a lot more alike than many recognize. Above all, both love(d) this team and they would spend whatever it took to get the talent needed to win.

The Skins have been a goliath for the past 30 years. The only thing that has changed is the media's perception of the goliath.

03-26-2006, 06:30 PM	#1
Huddle Special Teams Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 352	Rooting for Goliath Some recent threads reacting angrily to news articles blasting the Redskins on their free agency spending inspired these thoughts. The New York Yankees have been buying the best players in the league for 75 years. Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Goliath. If our free agency spending strategy leads to a dynasty, we can't expect the Redskins organization to be admired in the way that the Patriots organization has been admired in recent years. Outsmarting your opponents is thought of as being competitive within the spirit of the rules. Using your ability to outspend your opponents is considered by most to be taking an unfair advantage. Redskins' fans are going to need to become thick-skinned about criticism of our team in the media and on the message boards of fansites across the country. Dan Snyder is their target now but, if this year's team can't cut it, we can expect some of them to develop the bravado to take some shots at the stewardship of Joe Gibbs despite his Hall of Fame reputation. If we win, don't expect most Americans to be standing in line to congratulate us. If we lose, expect them to rejoice. It's just human nature to root against Goliath.

03-26-2006, 06:39 PM	#2
BigSKINBauer Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Age: 36 Posts: 5,688	Re: rooting for Goliath everyone follows the same cap .(period)

03-26-2006, 08:15 PM	#4
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	Re: rooting for Goliath its different. you can't outspend consistantly with a cap and its nearly impossible to field a team that's in the superbowl even 2 years in a row. People jab synder anyways, worst case, nothing changes... but i don't you'll see anything like the anti-yankee anti-duke stuff. Its not like we're playing by different rules or we're going to go to 10 super bowls in a row.

03-26-2006, 08:40 PM	#8
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 63 Posts: 10,672	Re: rooting for Goliath a win is a win is a win.to me,winning cures everything.i really dont care what other fans think __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

03-26-2006, 09:58 PM	#10
fja711 Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11	Re: rooting for Goliath All teams have the same amount of money to spend. Some teams chose to spend it all and some don't. The joke is that you get critisized for being agressive and trying to put together a great group of players. Fact is that all those players are independant contractors and are trying to work for the most money possible. I don't think there is one team that has a player playing for nothing. Based on playoff wins and championships I'd have to say the Mannings are overpaid yet nobody seems to be critical of the Colts or the Giants.

03-26-2006, 11:01 PM	#11
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 45 Posts: 12,421	Re: rooting for Goliath They key thing to remember is there is no franchise in the NFL that is incapable of turning a profit by spending up to the salary cap. The salary cap is set at such a level that even Arizona can turn a profit by spending that money. Therefore, money doesn't enter the equation with football like it does in baseball. There are plenty of teams that whine and cry about big market teams, but the truth is they have the funds to pay for players too. Many just choose not to. So let the uninformed say what they want. __________________ God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.

03-27-2006, 12:21 AM	#12
Redskins8588 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ridgway, PA Age: 46 Posts: 2,519	Re: rooting for Goliath I said it before on here, I will gladly take an owner that is not afraid to spend the $$ money on the team like Snyder does. Atleast he is trying to put a winning team on the field. Back in 2000 he didnt fair well with his spending but so what you make mistakes and learn, thats the only way to truely learn. I would rather sit here and bitch about the media haters than bitch about an owner that wont try... __________________ "I am the best at what I do, and what I do isn't very nice" - Sean Taylor

03-27-2006, 12:38 AM	#13
Kope Special Teams Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NC Posts: 447	Re: rooting for Goliath Goliath - shmoliath. Like NYG/NYJ, DaBears, Pats and Fish have no poplulation to draw from; paaalease. Snyder is pulling his weight...what about the other owners?

03-27-2006, 12:39 AM	#14
KLHJ2 Inactive Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: DC Metro Area Age: 46 Posts: 5,829	Re: rooting for Goliath You know, I admit that when Snyder was making all of those big spendings like Deion and so forth I was impressed that he even tried to get big name players. He was at least trying to improve his team. He could not help the fact they were out of their prime time. Since he took over we have always had a kick ass off season.The sad part was that it didn't always translate into wins. I am happy to say that with Joe Gibbs's return improvements have been made. And to the credit of the spoiled rich kid it is finally starting to work out for him. All he has ever wanted for the Skins is to bee winners, and he has proven that. He has done nothing more than any of us have done while playing Madden football. Hiring the best free agents in order for us to easier win the Super Bowl. Yet we criticize him constantly. One day all of that spent money is going to translate into a Super Bowl. So stop complaining about his open pockets, and welcome them. We will thank him later!

03-27-2006, 01:51 AM	#15
Sociofan Special Teams Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Gainesville, VA Age: 59 Posts: 380	Re: rooting for Goliath Okay, as a Red Sox fanatic, I immediataly resent any comparisons of the Redskins to the Yankees. The reality is that you cannot compare the Redskins to any baseball team. There is no cap in baseball and so Steinbrenner can outspend other teams by twice as much if he so chooses. In football, each team is held to the same annual spending limit. Granted, you can spend creatively, but everyone in the end is allowed exactly the same amount. What is more curious to me is the criticism of the signings. Snyder, in my opinion, just completed one of the most targeted and well conceived free agent signing periods of his ownership. He gave a lot of up front money, but the overall contracts were reasonable. And yet we have Dallas signing players like Fabini (3 years up to $7.5M) who is physically questionable at best, Owens ($10M per), who needs no description of his risks, and Ayodele (5 years $17M), who is a pure 4-3 LB to insert into a 3-4 scheme (note: Fujita had to be cast off from Dallas this offseason for the very same reason). How is it that the former poster boy for excess (Jerry Jones) has avoided the same criticisms? Jack Kent Cooke used to spend money like he was printing it and would routinely have one of (if not THE) highest payrolls in the NFL. Yet people loved him and the Skins. Was it because he was the cantankerous old curmudgeon? And Snyder is the brash young executive? To be honest, they are a lot more alike than many recognize. Above all, both love(d) this team and they would spend whatever it took to get the talent needed to win. The Skins have been a goliath for the past 30 years. The only thing that has changed is the media's perception of the goliath.

rooting for Goliath

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