Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

okay,Gibbs in his first go round was known for making great halftime adjustments,I've been doing some research and heres what i came up with.In Gibbs first tenure,he had 28 wins in which we were losing at halftime,7 of those happened in his first 3 yrs.Gibbs #2 in his first 3 yrs has 5 wins after losing at halftime,{this includes dallas-2td moss game,dont know if this should be counted}
On the flip side,Gibbs #1 had 11 games in 12 yrs in which he lost a game that he was winning at halftime,and one of those games you can throw out{91 season,we were 14-1,Gibbs rested starters in the 2nd half}
Gibbs #2 already has 11 losses in which we had a lead at halftime,with 5 of those happening last yr,and I dont think you can blame that on last yrs def,of those 5 losses we only scored a total of 29 second half points in 5 games.Of those 11 games 4 were second half shutouts with a total of us being outscored in the 2nd half of those 11 games 182-53.
What does all this mean? besides Gibbs #2 is def not as good as Gibbs#1?
well he has almost as many come from behind wins in his 2nd go round as he does in his first,so you might say he can still make good halftime adjustments.
Now for the 11 losses after leading at halftime,does that mean he's gotten too conservative in his old age and wants to sit on a lead?
Its been said that Gibbs#1 took other peoples players and fit his style around them and thats what made him a great coach,I can agree with that,but Gibbs #2 has handpicked his players for his system and its a struggle to score any points,does this make him a bad talent evaluator or bad coach? or both?
I think the bottom line is Gibbs#2 just hasnt been that good and deserves to be criticized,if he was any other coach he might be out of a job,2 of the teams that are# 2 and #3 behind us in most losses after leading at halftime since 2004 have fired their coaches.
But,I am glad that Snyder hired Gibbs,it has brought some stability to the organization,which we needed desperately.If Gibbs decides to finish out his 5 yr contract even if we suck he deserves that chance because of what he did the first time,but that doesnt mean he doesnt deserve the criticism he gets and we as fans shouldnt be chided for criticizing him .

Good post, and some good points.

The biggest difference between Gibbs 1.0 and Gibbs 2.0 is that he cannot run over teams anymore because the roster he has is no longer dominant. He brought in Al Saunders to try to allieviate this, and say what you want about the job Saunders has done, but he specifically told Gibbs to go out and get Brandon Lloyd because he was the greatest talent he had ever seen. Because of moves like this, Gibbs has been unable to build a dominant roster.

The perception that we should NEVER give up a lead more than a touchdown in the second half of a game is downright ridiculous. We are about league average in closing games out. Sometimes, you end up getting outplayed by a comprable team in the second half. The first half DOES NOT HAVE MORE WEIGHT THAN THE SECOND. You could make the argument that we were lucky to have a 2 TD lead over the Giants with the drops and turnovers they committed. The fact that we were up by 2 TDs has nothing to do with the expectations for the second half.

You'd like to win every game you ever had a lead in, but if you can't deal with losing one every once in awhile without having to make excuses for the loss, it may be time to go root for another team who dominates its opponents.

Anyway, good post htownskin fan, and I hope this one doesn't get swept under the rug.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Good post, and some good points.

The biggest difference between Gibbs 1.0 and Gibbs 2.0 is that he cannot run over teams anymore because the roster he has is no longer dominant. He brought in Al Saunders to try to allieviate this, and say what you want about the job Saunders has done, but he specifically told Gibbs to go out and get Brandon Lloyd because he was the greatest talent he had ever seen. Because of moves like this, Gibbs has been unable to build a dominant roster.

The perception that we should NEVER give up a lead more than a touchdown in the second half of a game is downright ridiculous. We are about league average in closing games out. Sometimes, you end up getting outplayed by a comprable team in the second half. The first half DOES NOT HAVE MORE WEIGHT THAN THE SECOND. You could make the argument that we were lucky to have a 2 TD lead over the Giants with the drops and turnovers they committed. The fact that we were up by 2 TDs has nothing to do with the expectations for the second half.

You'd like to win every game you ever had a lead in, but if you can't deal with losing one every once in awhile without having to make excuses for the loss, it may be time to go root for another team who dominates its opponents.

Anyway, good post htownskin fan, and I hope this one doesn't get swept under the rug.

thanks,but I think this thread has played out

[12thMan]

I think a better question is why doesn't "Saunders Football" work?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I think a better question is why doesn't "Saunders Football" work?

Saunders system has worked for many years, until he came to Washington. I don't think there is a coincidence in that.

[The Zimmermans]

JOE GIBBS football will work consistently if we hire a GM that picks the personnel to support joe gibbs football.

That includes a big HB, and small fast HB

A big possession third down receiver, and a solid offensive line

Otherwise, "JOE GIBBS" football will struggle

[Redskins247]

Originally Posted by The Zimmermans

JOE GIBBS football will work consistently if we hire a GM that picks the personnel to support joe gibbs football.

That includes a big HB, and small fast HB

A big possession third down receiver, and a solid offensive line

Otherwise, "JOE GIBBS" football will struggle

I agree on that...unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen...even if Gibbs stayed on for 3 more years.

[The Zimmermans]

yeah, I support the game plan we have....but it doesnt seem to always work due to lack of personnel, who the hell are we gonna throw to if we don't have moss....we should be going to cooley ALOT

[Redskins247]

Hell I don't think we're going to Cooley enough now!!! Where are the crossing routes? From any of them??? ARE is having a great year so far though...

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by Redskins247

Hell I don't think we're going to Cooley enough now!!! Where are the crossing routes? From any of them??? ARE is having a great year so far though...

We're using Cooley far too often as an extra blocker on passing downs due to the OL injuries. I found it troubling that he was locked up with Strahan late in the Giants game. If you want an extra blocker, make that Sellers' assignment, not Cooley's.

[Redskins247]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

We're using Cooley far too often as an extra blocker on passing downs due to the OL injuries. I found it troubling that he was locked up with Strahan late in the Giants game. If you want an extra blocker, make that Sellers' assignment, not Cooley's.

Excellent Point!!! Cooley is far too valuable as a receiver....I really thought they would be using him as much as the colts use dallas clark in the passing game this year....but not yet.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by The Zimmermans

JOE GIBBS football will work consistently if we hire a GM that picks the personnel to support joe gibbs football.

That includes a big HB, and small fast HB

A big possession third down receiver, and a solid offensive line

Otherwise, "JOE GIBBS" football will struggle

One problem no one is accounting for is that the game today is vastly different, and not just for reasons I have already mentioned, but for the fact we are in the salary cap era. The line that Gibbs had stayed relatively in tact for over a decade, while already in part 2 he's been through a bunch of O linemen. You just can't keep people like you could have in years past. I think this is a factor in a Joe Gibbs type system.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

We're using Cooley far too often as an extra blocker on passing downs due to the OL injuries. I found it troubling that he was locked up with Strahan late in the Giants game. If you want an extra blocker, make that Sellers' assignment, not Cooley's.

While I see someone agreed with you...I respectfully disagree with you.
#1- Cooley is TE, and a TE by definition lines up to block first, be a weapon downfield 2nd.
#2- with all our injuries, someone needs to step up.
#3- Sellers isn't always on the field. When he is in passing situations, he's picking up the oncoming rush while Portis goes out to the flat. You can't expect him to pick up someone like Strahan after Strahan already had 5 yards to get his speed up. You need someone up on the line to block and Sellers doesn't do that.

There is no easy answer for the fact that our line is beat up...we need help from everywhere.

By the way, what was the final word on how long Thomas and Jansen will be out?? Anyone get a final answer?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by jsarno

While I see someone agreed with you...I respectfully disagree with you.
#1- Cooley is TE, and a TE by definition lines up to block first, be a weapon downfield 2nd.
#2- with all our injuries, someone needs to step up.
#3- Sellers isn't always on the field. When he is in passing situations, he's picking up the oncoming rush while Portis goes out to the flat. You can't expect him to pick up someone like Strahan after Strahan already had 5 yards to get his speed up. You need someone up on the line to block and Sellers doesn't do that.

There is no easy answer for the fact that our line is beat up...we need help from everywhere.

By the way, what was the final word on how long Thomas and Jansen will be out?? Anyone get a final answer?

Jansen is officially out for the season (on IR) and Thomas is out until December, maybe the entire year depending on his rehab..

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by jsarno

While I see someone agreed with you...I respectfully disagree with you.
#1- Cooley is TE, and a TE by definition lines up to block first, be a weapon downfield 2nd.
#2- with all our injuries, someone needs to step up.
#3- Sellers isn't always on the field. When he is in passing situations, he's picking up the oncoming rush while Portis goes out to the flat. You can't expect him to pick up someone like Strahan after Strahan already had 5 yards to get his speed up. You need someone up on the line to block and Sellers doesn't do that.

There is no easy answer for the fact that our line is beat up...we need help from everywhere.

By the way, what was the final word on how long Thomas and Jansen will be out?? Anyone get a final answer?

A couple of things here-
Gibbs brought in Saunders to implement a system. He wouldn't have done that if he was satisfied his old school style would hold up nowadays. The TE is a huge part of a Saunders offense. And Cooley has been phenomenal. Just as Gonzalez was phenomenal when Saunders was in KC. I agree that Gibbs likes the TE to be a blocker, but Don Warren and Clint Didier caught their share of passes too. Cooley is a mismatch weapon on offense, and should be used as such. Gibbs drafted him to be his signature "h-back," and he's worked out as far as production is concerned, even though the h-back isn't around now. Now that the line is dinged we may need to use more two TE sets, with Cooley as a passing option and Yoder staying in to help block.

I disagree that Sellers can't block Strahan types. At 285lbs he is as big or bigger than most DE's in the league.

And despite the two injuries on the O-line, we are pretty healthy. We need to come out and pound this Lions squad.

[skinsfan69]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. It's time to start passing the ball more. Since Gibbs has been back how many times have we gone over 250 yards passing??? I don't care if JC is young or not. When I see Derek Anderson throwing for 4-5 TD's then there are no excuses. Why is it that our gameplan every week is "we must establish the run." Frankly it's getting old and IMO that crap doesn't work every week. Here are some questions I have for Joe Gibbs football.

How come we never pass to set up the run?
How come we are never in shotgun on 1st down?
How come we are only in shotgun on passing downs? Makes us kind of predictable. Don't ya think?
How come we never run the ball out of shotgun?
How come we don't roll the pocket anymore? Especially with a mobile QB.