obama is taking my $

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Sorry but you have tho wrong clause because the Hyde/Weldon Clause was just past in 2005 and so how could Obama apeal the same clause as Clinton and Carter if it was just passed. Pleas try again.

I never said that Obama repealed Hyde-Weldon, but the "Global Gag Rule." Yes, Hyde came afterwards, but it's in there to serve more than one purpose. And I can assure you, the funds aren't supposed to fund abortion but rather offer counseling services and allow women to know the options available, among other things health related.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I never said that Obama repealed Hyde-Weldon, but the "Global Gag Rule." Yes, Hyde came afterwards, but it's in there to serve more than one purpose. And I can assure you, the funds aren't supposed to fund abortion but rather offer counseling services and allow women to know the options available, among other things health related.

Like I said at the beging of this thread that I really don't have a strong opinion for or against abortion. I am against funding this over seas and by striking down this ban we will be paying for abortions and from what I have read thats not even up for debate.

[12thMan]

Like, we give them 10 bucks - and that 10 bucks can't go to the doctor performing the procedure, does that make sense? It can go towards counseling and family-planning services.

Read a portion of this Press Release from NARAL:

The global gag rule, which former President George W. Bush imposed on his first day in office, prohibited the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) from granting family-planning funds to any overseas health center unless it agreed not to use its own, private, non-U.S. funds for abortion services or counseling. Bush imposed this rule even though federal law already prohibits the use of U.S. tax dollars for abortion services overseas.....

Keenan said President Obama's strong action on behalf of women would incur criticism from anti-choice pressure groups that are hostile to birth control.

"We fully expect anti-choice politicians to distort the facts and make this about abortion, when it's not," Keenan said. "It's unconscionable that the same people who oppose legal abortion also want to block the world's poorest women from accessing birth control and other services that reduce the need for abortion in the first place."

For the last four years, President Bush has arbitrarily withheld funding appropriated by Congress to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), which provides family-planning services, prenatal care, and other primary health services in developing countries.

For more information regarding these issues, including examples of how the global gag rule has cut off women's access to birth control, please visit NARAL Pro-Choice America.

[dmek25]

why does this topic invoke so many nutty opinions?

[12thMan]

It's the word "abortion", Dmek. It's a sexy word to use and divisive at the same time. The reality is, no one is FOR abortion.

But I suspect it's a number of things that has caused this particular topic to bubble to the top and become central to a much larger debate. I think, for one, coming off the heels of a historic election, people are engaged like never before.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Like, we give them 10 bucks - and that 10 bucks can't go to the doctor performing the procedure, does that make sense? It can go towards counseling and family-planning services.

Read a portion of this Press Release from NARAL:

The global gag rule, which former President George W. Bush imposed on his first day in office, prohibited the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) from granting family-planning funds to any overseas health center unless it agreed not to use its own, private, non-U.S. funds for abortion services or counseling. Bush imposed this rule even though federal law already prohibits the use of U.S. tax dollars for abortion services overseas.....

Keenan said President Obama's strong action on behalf of women would incur criticism from anti-choice pressure groups that are hostile to birth control.

"We fully expect anti-choice politicians to distort the facts and make this about abortion, when it's not," Keenan said. "It's unconscionable that the same people who oppose legal abortion also want to block the world's poorest women from accessing birth control and other services that reduce the need for abortion in the first place."

For the last four years, President Bush has arbitrarily withheld funding appropriated by Congress to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), which provides family-planning services, prenatal care, and other primary health services in developing countries.

For more information regarding these issues, including examples of how the global gag rule has cut off women's access to birth control, please visit NARAL Pro-Choice America.

12th thats a very poor source which is very bias and would be like someone going to a source against abortion. If people think that if we are sending money to places that provide abortion and that none of the funds will support and pay for them is crazy. After the money hits their hands we have little or no control over what happens with these funds. Just look at what happens here in the US with bailout money and how congrees has trouble controlling how its spent here at home.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

. The reality is, no one is FOR abortion.

What a joke. What you meant to say is that in the last twenty years it's become fashionable for pro-choice politicians to ass-cover with some caveat indicating that in the purely moral sphere, of course they have reservations about this very difficult decision. Blah, blah, blah. Thomas Jefferson wasn't for slavery either. Actions speak much louder than words when it comes to things like this.

[djnemo65]

Right, that's what it is, fashion.

I know you like to vilify and demonize anyone whose views differ from yours, describing them alternatively as pierced slackers, loitering homosexuals, white flag waving francophiles, fornicating Europeans, or in this case, pro dead fetus dissimulators, but seriously, can't you consider the possibility that not sharing your values doesn't automatically make someone morally corrupt?

[dmek25]

good post dj

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Right, that's what it is, fashion.

I know you like to vilify and demonize anyone whose views differ from yours, describing them alternatively as pierced slackers, loitering homosexuals, white flag waving francophiles, fornicating Europeans, or in this case, pro dead fetus dissimulators, but seriously, can't you consider the possibility that not sharing your values doesn't automatically make someone morally corrupt?

So who did you steal that quote from? It's baseless in application to 70.

Can't YOU consider that to pro-lifers in the world they consider abortion MURDER. THAT'S MURDER. Again I am not making that argument but it seems pretty ignorant of the pro-choicers who rarely consider that they aren't arguing with a side about taxes, or off-shore drilling. You are arguing with people who think you are ok with killing other people. Humans tend to get somewhat angry about murder so it stands to reason that they'd think pretty little of pro-lifers since they consider you tanatamount to murderers.

[FRPLG]

Note: this is why I don't discuss my views on abortion much. It's one issue no one will agree on and emotions get reasonably hot over it.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

It's the word "abortion", Dmek. It's a sexy word to use and divisive at the same time. The reality is, no one is FOR abortion.

But I suspect it's a number of things that has caused this particular topic to bubble to the top and become central to a much larger debate. I think, for one, coming off the heels of a historic election, people are engaged like never before.

12th back 10 years ago I would have agreed with you until I met these two sisters who were very big in the pro-choice movement. There views on this subeject were so far to the left it almost seemed that they took pride in a women having a choice and choosing abortion. I'm not sure how the subject came up at this party but I'm pretty neutural on the abortion issue and all this one person said is that she could understand why some thought abortion was murder. These girls went nuts and they started saying things that just amazed me. After we left and got talking in the car the 4 people with me thought they had this party to push an agenda and even asked if anyone wanted to attend a rally. The one person who knew them even apologized for taking us to their party and we all kind of laughed it off put I just cannot forget what they said and the hate they showed to people with a different opinions. The funny thing was that no one their was really pro-life and most were pretty neutural on the subject.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Note: this is why I don't discuss my views on abortion much. It's one issue no one will agree on and emotions get reasonably hot over it.

This is why I never made it an Understanding the Issues thread during the campaign.

I believe that 12th's point was that people (most people) aren't all "Yay! Let's go get an abortion!" It was that those who are pro-choice support the option to get an abortion. But I think most that do would rather not ever get one.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

What a joke. What you meant to say is that in the last twenty years it's become fashionable for pro-choice politicians to ass-cover with some caveat indicating that in the purely moral sphere, of course they have reservations about this very difficult decision. Blah, blah, blah. Thomas Jefferson wasn't for slavery either. Actions speak much louder than words when it comes to things like this.

So who's actions are right in this case, 70? The government telling a woman what to do with her own body, a very personal and moral decision or the alternative, doing what she feels is in her best interest and well being?

Why is it an either or proposition?

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by firstdown

12th back 10 years ago I would have agreed with you until I met these two sisters who were very big in the pro-choice movement. There views on this subeject were so far to the left it almost seemed that they took pride in a women having a choice and choosing abortion. I'm not sure how the subject came up at this party but I'm pretty neutural on the abortion issue and all this one person said is that she could understand why some thought abortion was murder. These girls went nuts and they started saying things that just amazed me. After we left and got talking in the car the 4 people with me thought they had this party to push an agenda and even asked if anyone wanted to attend a rally. The one person who knew them even apologized for taking us to their party and we all kind of laughed it off put I just cannot forget what they said and the hate they showed to people with a different opinions. The funny thing was that no one their was really pro-life and most were pretty neutural on the subject.

and the difference with the radical right, that would rather bomb abortion clinics is???