2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You either haven't read or chose to ignore the facts in the link with detail on the UAW bailout.

from my link: "
Before the bankruptcy, UAW members in Detroit made more than $70 an hour in wages and benefits — a major reason GM and Chrysler went under. The automakers also owed tens of billions to a UAW trust fund that provided gold-plated health benefits to the union’s retirees. In a normal bankruptcy, the UAW would be required to bring this compensation down to competitive rates. Bankruptcy law also calls for all unsecured creditors to receive equal treatment. That did not happen in Detroit.
In the bankruptcy, the union gave only minor concessions for existing workers. The union accepted huge cuts for new hires, but as the president’s former Car Czar admitted, “We did not ask any UAW member to take a cut in their pay.” As a result, GM still pays $56 an hour in wages and benefits, more than any of its foreign “transplant” competitors. Not adjusting labor costs to market rates costs taxpayers more than $4 billion.
The UAW’s trust fund also recovered far more of the money owed to it than other unsecured creditors did. At GM the UAW Trust collected $12.2 billion more than it would have had it been treated like the other unsecured creditors. At Chrysler the administration gave the UAW assets worth $9.2 billion. That was a much greater recovery than the secured creditors got — and the reason the UAW wound up with half of Chrysler.
General Motors further spent $1 billion to restore the pensions of UAW retirees at Delphi, a bankrupt former GM subsidiary, to their former levels. GM had no legal obligation to do so, and did not do the same for the pensions of retirees in other unions or those of non-union employees. Former administration officials have refused to co-operate with the inspector general’s investigation into whether the administration played a role in this decision.
Add these handouts up, and you find that the taxpayers spent $26.5 billion subsidizing the pay and benefits of UAW members. Obama gave the UAW more than the U.S. spends on foreign aid. The UAW subsidies account for the entire net cost of the bailout.
Generous compensation is good, but the taxpayers should not be on the hook for paying it. The average worker makes about $30 in pay and benefits. The administration spent the taxes paid by all Americans to preserve union pay in Detroit. That was not an auto bailout. It was a UAW bailout.

This was a BS pay-off to UAW, no other way to spin it.

Socialism?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Socialism?

Good one.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Before the bankruptcy, UAW members in Detroit made more than $70 an hour in wages and benefits — a major reason GM and Chrysler went under.

Talk about spin. I love how corporate/capitalist sympathizers point to the labor costs as a "major" reason for GM and Chrysler going under when in reality, the reason they were going under is because they had a inferior product. This falls in the range of design, quality, and marketing. The only thing the American car companies compete in are the trucks. That's about it.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Talk about spin. I love how corporate/capitalist sympathizers point to the labor costs as a "major" reason for GM and Chrysler going under when in reality, the reason they were going under is because they had a inferior product. This falls in the range of design, quality, and marketing. The only thing the American car companies compete in are the trucks. That's about it.

Nooooo...it was those big bad mean unions that forced GM to roll out those fuel inefficient gas guzzling automobiles.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Talk about spin. I love how corporate/capitalist sympathizers point to the labor costs as a "major" reason for GM and Chrysler going under when in reality, the reason they were going under is because they had a inferior product. This falls in the range of design, quality, and marketing. The only thing the American car companies compete in are the trucks. That's about it.

So your saying they turn all that around in a year? Tell me what new cars they came out with after the bail out?

[Chico23231]

Judge: Tea Party Nation founder must pay $748k Las Vegas hotel bill - Yahoo! News

disgusting and pathetic. the tea party prides itself for being against this type of crap: spending and waste, no better place than Vegas...hypocrites

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Judge: Tea Party Nation founder must pay $748k Las Vegas hotel bill - Yahoo! News

disgusting and pathetic. the tea party prides itself for being against this type of crap: spending and waste, no better place than Vegas...hypocrites

Agree, if you have a contract that stipulates a cancellation date, you honor the contract.

Also, unless the Venetian gave the TP convention an incredible rate, that a group against high taxes, waste, etc. is having a convention there sends entirely the wrong message.

People in both parties are so incredibly stupid when they think their actions won't be brought to light. The country is so connected, yet so divided, nothing stays "under the radar".

It's just like something I've always done at work....think every E-mail or text you send could wind up on the CEOs desk, if you're not OK with that....don't send it.

[Chico23231]

Romney gonna announce VP tomorrow, looks like Paul Ryan...good choice imo

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Romney gonna announce VP tomorrow, looks like Paul Ryan...good choice imo

Agree, energizes conservative base, helps in midwest/rust belt, shows campaign serious about fixing economy.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Agree, energizes conservative base, helps in midwest/rust belt, shows campaign serious about fixing economy.

Also looks like they wanted to pick a guy they could eventually groom to run for president.

[saden1]

The GOP and Romney has put its money where its mouth is with the Ryan pick and that's very admirable. Get your popcorn ready folks, the werewolf and the vampire are on the trail to get their country back.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Romney gonna announce VP tomorrow, looks like Paul Ryan...good choice imo

Have you been hanging with Fred and Trent lately?


Romney has just lost the elderly vote and anybody on SS/Medicare/Medicaid.


How Paul Ryan could be a drag on Mitt Romney in Florida - Political Currents - MiamiHerald.com


Here is this idiot at a town hall meeting trying to peddle the "Trickle Down" economics to the locals and apparently they aren't having any of it.



He's the typical conservative "give rich all the money, take away from the poor, need more wars" douche bag this country DOES NOT need. **** this guy, and **** the GOP for even trying to peddle these assclowns. It's sad the conservatives have been reduced to this. Can we get McCain back?...lol

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Have you been hanging with Fred and Trent lately?


Romney has just lost the elderly vote and anybody on SS/Medicare/Medicaid.


How Paul Ryan could be a drag on Mitt Romney in Florida - Political Currents - MiamiHerald.com


Here is this idiot at a town hall meeting trying to peddle the "Trickle Down" economics to the locals and apparently they aren't having any of it.



He's the typical conservative "give rich all the money, take away from the poor, need more wars" douche bag this country DOES NOT need. **** this guy, and **** the GOP for even trying to peddle these assclowns. It's sad the conservatives have been reduced to this. Can we get McCain back?...lol

Never pegged you as liberal leaning NC. I like you more now.

Really though, this election year has me kinda worried. I'm afraid of what this country's working and middle class is going to look like under a Romney run White House. Both from an economical and social standpoint.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Never pegged you as liberal leaning NC. I like you more now.

Really though, this election year has me kinda worried. I'm afraid of what this country's working and middle class is going to look like under a Romney run White House. Both from an economical and social standpoint.

Whoever does a better job of getting people back to work and putting businesses in a postion where they feel good about hiring again is going to help the middle class more then anything. People focus to much on the class warfare.

It doesn't matter if they cut the tax rate for the top 1% down to 0. If people get to work again and have money to spend it's worth it. We need to stop worrying so much about the class warfare and start figuring out what is going to get unemployment back to 5% to 6%.

I don't know how much of the criticism towards the Obama adminstration is true (such as spending, amount of spending,etc). What I do know is people believe it's real and sadly the impact of those perceptions become real (hring freezes, lower projected earnings on publicly traded companies, etc).

[Giantone]

[QUOTE=Dirtbag59;930306]Whoever does a better job of getting people back to work and putting businesses in a postion where they feel good about hiring again is going to help the middle class more then anything. People focus to much on the class warfare.

QUOTE]

Class warfare is exactly what this is,like it or not there is a direct correlation between the demise of the middle class and the demise of Unions around the country.people talk about getting others more educated to get better (other) jobs when their job is sent over seas,yet those jobs are also going over seas.People can not live on 7.50 or even 10.50 a week.
I know people hate Unions,well I've said this before..you want firemen and policemen to walk into buildings and take a bullit fot you ...save your life but when it comes to them being able to support a family screw them,what do think would have happen to the firemen ,EMPs and Police after 9/11 if not for their Unions,yes there have been bad Union as there have been bad owners but the temperment for what is going on right now in this country proves we need Unions.(sorry for the rant)